Hand cramps - how to improve?

[A Smug Dill]

On 4/18/2022 at 11:39 AM, LizEF said:

When I put a pen between my first two fingers, it ends up at a pretty steep angle (maybe 80 degrees?),

 

 

The pen in the photos above is a Pilot Kaküno, which has a faceted gripping section to guide the user's placement of the pads of his/her thumb and index finger. While that isn't how I normally grip my pens, I did so for the purpose of illustrating my point. Allowing the barrel of the pen to rest against the side of the knuckle results in a steeper incident angle, but cradling the barrel with the webbing results in a shallower angle, without changing the placement of one's fingertips on the gripping section.

[Pen Ultimate User]

20 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Some people don't like the grip on the Safari family.  I didn't at first, until someone gave me a cheap Chinese knockoff -- a Jinhao 599.  It taught me that I could get used to the grip after all.  Now?  I have something like five or six Safaris, two al-Stars, and an LX (I got that for less than a Safari costs when their old US distributor had a close-out a few years ago).

 

I can already see this is going to be an expensive hobby. Between pens and inks alone... Oh well, can't be much worse than my yarn habit and healthier than, say, drugs!

 

17 hours ago, Aether said:

There are only two things to do to relieve writer cramp, hold the pen correctly, and relax. It's simple to say but does require some practice. 

 

Yeah, I'm learning that. And practicing both. 

[inkstainedruth]

Oh yeah, don't get me started on the fiber and yarn stash I've got.  Although I got a phenomenal deal on a used great wheel last year at an estate sale a couple of towns over.  Looks like all it may need is a new drive band (and I can do that), and when the weather gets better a friend of mine has offered to have me bring it over so she can show me how to use it (outside in good weather).  I suspect I'll start with commercial roving to begin with -- not sure what shape the wool cards are in....

Amazingly, it cost less than HALF what I paid for my Kromski Mazurka upright wheel a number of years ago (and that was before the prices on those went up).  But of course the advantage of the Kromski is that it's way more portable than the great wheel will be....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[txomsy]

In my experience, the pen you use can make quite a difference.

 

Points to look at: I find I have better control when

a) I hold the pen close to the tip of the section

b) I hold the pen farther from the tip of the nib

 

OTOH I find I tend to make apply more pressure when the ink flows less (must be an atavistic reflex from ballpoints).

 

So, my advice would be to first look for a pen adapted to your hand size: in my case I find myself holding the MB 342-G by the transparent barrel window, but the Garant Alkor by the tip of the section. The second is larger but less tiresome. If you have large hands, maybe a #6 nibbed pen will work better.

 

Secondly, apply less pressure: weight depends, I enjoy a light acrylic pen, but somehow feel more confident and relaxed with a heavy metal pen (e.g. the Kaweco Brass Sport), however, ink flow is relevant: maybe using a medium nib in a wet pen will allow you to write with less pressure (and even encourage you to use less force). I find that I tend to grip the Pelikan EF tighter than the MB146 B. A "softer", better gliding ink may also help.

 

Once that has been checked, I would then consider changing the grip. But that is because, at least in my case, I notice my grip changing depending on the pen/nib/script.

 

The script may also help: some will demand a higher control and unconsciously direct you to keep higher tension in the hand muscles. Some times I've found myself using an horizontally elongated script when my hand was tired for it allowed me to relax the hand.

 

But that's me and you may have other preferences/circumstances. So, take this for what it is worth, i.e. very little or close to nothing.

[Pen Ultimate User]

10 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Oh yeah, don't get me started on the fiber and yarn stash I've got.  Although I got a phenomenal deal on a used great wheel last year at an estate sale a couple of towns over.  Looks like all it may need is a new drive band (and I can do that), and when the weather gets better a friend of mine has offered to have me bring it over so she can show me how to use it (outside in good weather).  I suspect I'll start with commercial roving to begin with -- not sure what shape the wool cards are in....

Amazingly, it cost less than HALF what I paid for my Kromski Mazurka upright wheel a number of years ago (and that was before the prices on those went up).  But of course the advantage of the Kromski is that it's way more portable than the great wheel will be....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Oh, I won't get into spinning because of the cost. Yarn is more than enough! I try to limit my hobbies because of a lack of income. Whoops! But, I'm only knitting from stash for a while, until I get most of it used up. So any money I would use on yarn I can use on other things.

[Pen Ultimate User]

I hope double posting isn't against the rules. 

 

I wanted to share a few thoughts after some practicing:

 

I got my Jinhao Centennial pen yesterday. It's awesome. I love the f nib. Love love love it.

 

The grip between my two first fingers works perfectly with it. Hits the sweet spot every time. Holding the pen higher up on the barrel and looser is easier with this grip as well. I can write a full 8.25 X 11 page with no pain or fatigue! 

 

My handwriting has already improved just by adjusting where I hold my pen and changing my grip, but I need more help, so I'm still working on the exercises in the book I bought. How to Improve Your Handwriting, I think. Right now I'm just drawing lines, but I see an improvement in those already after only a couple days.

 

My Safari pen will be here next month. It's coming from the UK and I'm in Texas. Oops! 

 

Thank you all for your suggestions and support. They helped a ton!

Edited April 20, 2022 by Pen Ultimate User

[Sailor Kenshin]

53 minutes ago, Pen Ultimate User said:

 

Oh, I won't get into spinning because of the cost. Yarn is more than enough! I try to limit my hobbies because of a lack of income. Whoops! But, I'm only knitting from stash for a while, until I get most of it used up. So any money I would use on yarn I can use on other things.

Yarn is as colorful as ink, but doesn't stain your fingers.

[Distaff]

Except when when messing around with that indigo dye pot.   Also turns the Brittany birch knitting needles a pretty shade of blue.

[Sailor Kenshin]

57 minutes ago, Distaff said:

Except when when messing around with that indigo dye pot.   Also turns the Brittany birch knitting needles a pretty shade of blue.

 Brittany!  some of my favorite needles.

[sansenri]

On 4/20/2022 at 3:58 PM, Pen Ultimate User said:

I hope double posting isn't against the rules. 

 

I wanted to share a few thoughts after some practicing:

 

I got my Jinhao Centennial pen yesterday. It's awesome. I love the f nib. Love love love it.

 

The grip between my two first fingers works perfectly with it. Hits the sweet spot every time. Holding the pen higher up on the barrel and looser is easier with this grip as well. I can write a full 8.25 X 11 page with no pain or fatigue! 

 

My handwriting has already improved just by adjusting where I hold my pen and changing my grip, but I need more help, so I'm still working on the exercises in the book I bought. How to Improve Your Handwriting, I think. Right now I'm just drawing lines, but I see an improvement in those already after only a couple days.

 

My Safari pen will be here next month. It's coming from the UK and I'm in Texas. Oops! 

 

Thank you all for your suggestions and support. They helped a ton!

 

I think you are taking the right direction,

first thing, a pen with a decently ergonomic shape helps a lot, the Centennial shape is just that, not too small, reasonably straight, no steps to disturb your grip, well balanced, comfortable to hold. Even the Chinese copies now retain those attributes.

A good ink flow also helps, it's useful when the pen writes just as you barely touch the paper, dry pens, nibs or dry inks tend to force you to put more pressure on the nib, which increases fatigue.

Holding the pen not too close to the nib, helps. If you use a tripod grip, also try pulling your thumb just slightly further back than the other two fingers, this usually relaxes your grip.

Also depending on the size of your hands beware of small pens, they force you to tighten your grip, which in the long term is uncomfortable.

 

[Pen Ultimate User]

2 hours ago, Distaff said:

Except when when messing around with that indigo dye pot.   Also turns the Brittany birch knitting needles a pretty shade of blue.

 

Or when dye runs in the blocking wash and infiltrates the other yarns. I made a shawl with purple yarn and a white edging, soaked it for blocking and the dye ran and stained the edging. I was so mad, until I saw that I'd dropped two stitches, so I had to frog anyway. I need to get another pot just for this and boil that skein in some vinegar to help set or boil off what's left of that dye before I use it again. 

[amk]

From my own experience:

1. Do lots of loosening up exercises - rows of oooooos and loopy l's, curvy c's, then n's and m's and g y j with nice curly tails. Do it loosely, don't try to write on the line, just try to get a rhythm that you're happy with. feel your hand doing the work. (It should be hand and arm movement; my calligrapher teacher would always tell us "No finger writing!!!")

 

2. Get a pen that is well balanced in your hand and light enough for you to write without fatigue. If it's always trying to tip over backwards you're going to be struggling against the pen.

 

3. Pay attention to the ergonomics of the section. It's crazy the difference a couple of millimetres extra girth can make to the comfort of a pen.

 

4. Get a wet nib and a wet ink and good flow. There's nothing cramps my hand up like having to push ink out of an unyielding nib, or having ink that doesn't want to cooperate.

 

Pelikan ran a series of workshops recently and in one of them we tried writing with our non-dominant hand. That freed up a lot of people's imagination as well as their hands, so it might be worth trying.

[Sailor Kenshin]

When I write with my Non Dominant, it's usually because my other has cramped up.  😅

[Arkanabar]

Boy howdy am I ever late to this party, but "What to get for my first pen?" is one of my favorite topics.

 

By all means switch to a fountain pen.  You can let it lean back in your hand, which will help comfort.  So too may a Spencerian grip, what Bo Bo Olsen calls "forefinger up."  I've never mastered that.  I use the tripod grip.

 

Try to write without using any muscles below your elbow, with your hand relaxed.  As LizEF says, this will make your writing worse, for a while.  But it's totally doable with a fountain pen, and your handwriting will recover.  If you're holding your pen between your index and long fingers, you've already forced yourself into this.

 

I have used a fair number of Jinhao pens, and usually am not disappointed.  The Jinhao 100 is a ripoff homage of the Parker Duofold Centennial, which was by all accounts an excellent pen.  But I'm not going to recommend it right off (though you could probably do quite a bit worse for your first pen).  Instead, I want to ask questions.

 

What's your favorite pen?  What do you like about it?  What would you change if you could?  Should it be longer or shorter?  have a thicker or slimmer barrel or grip?  weigh more or less?

 

You mention liking Dr. Grip.  That's a girthy pen, lightweight, and with a triangular grip section.  You might prefer to avoid pens with slim grips, which include the Pilot MR/ Metropolitan/ Cocoon and Lamy Safari.  One alternative that is reliable, lightweight, and thicker to grip would be an entry-level Platinum--the Preppy, Plaisir, and Prefounte, which all use the same grip section/ nib unit assembly, available in 0.2 mm, 0.3mm, and 0.5mm.  The 0.2mm tip is seriously tiny.  The 0.5mm tip is a lot smoother to write with, and doesn't feel as scratchy.  The plastic used for the Preppy is much more prone to cracking than most.  And these cheap Platinums all will write on the first stroke, even after months or even more than a year of being ignored and neglected.

 

If you are prone to choking up on the point, avoid sleek pens that allow you to do so, like the Parker "51", Hero 616, and XF Jinhao 51A (I hold these pens about the clutch ring at the bottom of the section).  A bigger nib will force you to hold the pen further back.

 

For more information on writing ergonomics, refer to old writing manuals such as may be found at iampeth.com. 

[Aether]

Its not just about the grip, it's also about the whole body posture, height of desk and chair, and positioning of body relative to the paper.  All of these are factors that can contribute to hand cramps when writing.

[miwishi63]

18 hours ago, Aether said:

Its not just about the grip, it's also about the whole body posture, height of desk and chair, and positioning of body relative to the paper.  All of these are factors that can contribute to hand cramps when writing.

This. I still, after a decade, find myself trying to write with too much pressure. Someone up-topic suggested some "warm up exercises" prior to a writing session, which is a great idea. It takes practice, effort, and patience.

[kazoolaw]

Several generic suggestions:

-does your elbow rest on the desk?  Doing so reduces the effort needed by your hand to support your pen.

-is your grip loose enough that someone behind you could easily pull the pen out of your grip?  Tight grips are a common reaction to using ball pens which are more difficult to control.  Hence the plague of "writers' bumps" on middle fingers from prolonged use of death grips.

-as you write, is it your hand and wrist doing all the motions?  Focus on moving from the elbow.

 

All these assume you have a properly adjusted nib, with a sympathetic ink-and-paper combination.

 

Writing without pain is not the same as having beautiful penmanship.

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

Writing without pain is not the same as having beautiful penmanship.

 

Very true.