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Love Shading, Hate Sheen, Can You Help?


GNL

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Hello FPNers, 

 

I’m a huge fan of shading inks but dislike sheening inks.  In the blue-teal-green spectrum (and nowhere else), can you recommend high shading inks that have no sheen?  My current champion blue is Colorverse Supernova and my current champion green is Diamine November Rain.  But there have to be more!  Again, only in the blue-teal-green spectrum.  Thanks!

 

Gary

Current favorite pen: Montblanc 144 Meisterstuck purchased at Art Brown in 1984. After 38 years, every part has been replaced except the nib. Still a gorgeous writing instrument, rock-solid reliable, gives me hours of pleasure to use.

Current favorite ink: Colorverse Supernovs

Current favorite paper: Romeo notepads

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Both of these attributes really depend on the pen and paper, so my list may be off for you, therefore, more research is required before pursuing any given ink.  I have a gut feel for which of these are more likely to shade or sheen and under what circumstances (they're all inks I've reviewed), so if you wish to ask about any specific one, feel free. That said, based off reviews, these (blue, blue-black, green, and teal inks) shade at least "medium", but didn't sheen (granted, in my EF nib):

  • Akkerman #09 Laan van Nieuw Oost-Indigo
  • Colorverse Warped Passages
  • De Atramentis Indigo Blue
  • De Atramentis Pigeon Blue
  • De Atramentis Sherlock Holmes
  • De Atramentis Steel Blue
  • Diamine Safari
  • Diamine Blue-Black
  • Diamine Denim
  • Diamine Eau de Nil
  • Diamine Pelham Blue
  • Diamine Indigo
  • Diamine Misty Blue
  • Diamine Prussian Blue
  • Diamine Regency Blue
  • Diamine Registrar's Ink
  • Diamine Salamander
  • Diamine Twilight
  • ESS Registrars Ink
  • Graf von Faber-Castell Olive Green
  • Hero 232 Blue-Black
  • KWZ Green Gold
  • KWZ Walk Over Vistula
  • L'Artisan Pastellier Callifolio Bleu Equinoxe (5)
  • L'Artisan Pastellier Callifolio Bonne Esperance
  • Lamy Blue-Black
  • Lamy Benitoite
  • Montblanc Permanent Blue
  • Montblanc Royal Blue
  • Montblanc Writers Edition Homer Greek Blue
  • Organics Studio Walt Whitman Leaves of Grass Dark Green
  • Pelikan Edelstein Olivine
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Shin-kai (Deep Sea)
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo (Moonlight)
  • Pilot Namiki Blue
  • Platinum Blue Black
  • Platinum Classic Forest Black
  • Robert Oster Blue Night
  • Robert Oster Forest Green
  • Robert Oster Green Lime
  • Robert Oster Lemon Grass
  • Robert Oster Midnight Sapphire
  • Robert Oster Moss
  • Robert Oster Thunderstorm
  • Rohrer & Klingner Alt-Goldgrun
  • Rohrer & Klingner Salix
  • Rohrer & Klingner SketchINK Emma
  • Rohrer & Klingner SketchINK Frieda
  • Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris
  • Sailor Kobe INK Story #15 Maiko Green
  • Sailor Kobe INK Story #38 Kitanozaka Night Blue
  • Sailor Shikiori Nioi-sumire
  • Sailor Shikiori Tokiwa-Matsu
  • Sailor Shikiori Yonaga
  • Sailor Souboku
  • Takeda Jimuki (TAG) Kyo No Oto Aonibi
  • Van Dieman's Ink Blackened Seas

I'm quite certain a few of those will sheen in a wet enough nib on FP-friendly paper, but it's late, and I'm going to bed, so we'll have to tackle that tomorrow. :)

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HI, I'd definitely spend some time on mountainofink.com, where you can look for shading inks by colour group, and Kelli's ink reviews always include really useful comparisons to other ink swabs.  That is my go-to resource at the moment.

 

Few of my faves (also on Liz EF's list): Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris, Diamine Pelham Blue and Eau de Nil.

 

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@GNLI'm a bit surprised you name November Rain as one of your favorites, if you hate sheen 🤔 I thought that one was one of Diamine's more sheeny inks, kinda like a differently colored Skull&Roses?

 

In general I would expect less sheen and more shading in lower saturated inks - and vice versa.

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LizEF, thanks for the list.

Rationalizing pen and ink purchases since 1967.

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8 hours ago, LizB said:

Few of my faves (also on Liz EF's list): Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris, Diamine Pelham Blue and Eau de Nil.

 

Nice choices, LizB (and Liz EF). Three top notch inks.

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52 minutes ago, jmccarty3 said:

LizEF, thanks for the list.

:) You're welcome!

 

I would expect these to sheen in heavy enough applications, but this is a guess, and some that I deleted might also sheen...:

8 hours ago, LizEF said:
  • De Atramentis Steel Blue
  • Diamine Blue-Black
  • Diamine Denim
  • Diamine Regency Blue
  • Diamine Twilight
  • KWZ Walk Over Vistula
  • Montblanc Permanent Blue
  • Montblanc Royal Blue
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Shin-kai (Deep Sea)
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo (Moonlight)
  • Pilot Namiki Blue
  • Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris
  • Sailor Kobe INK Story #38 Kitanozaka Night Blue
  • Sailor Shikiori Tokiwa-Matsu
  • Sailor Shikiori Yonaga
  • Sailor Souboku
  • Van Dieman's Ink Blackened Seas

 

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4 hours ago, Licue said:

@GNLI'm a bit surprised you name November Rain as one of your favorites, if you hate sheen 🤔 I thought that one was one of Diamine's more sheeny inks, kinda like a differently colored Skull&Roses?

 

In general I would expect less sheen and more shading in lower saturated inks - and vice versa.

@Licue - I adore November Rain and don’t find it to have much sheen.  But it shades beautifully from a Sherwood green to black within individual letters, written with my Waterman Carene medium.  It shades less so in my Pelikan M600 medium, but I’m discovering that there are often perfect ink-pen combinations, so that Carene is going to see some fresh November Rain when it runs through its current supply of Emerald of Chivor.

Current favorite pen: Montblanc 144 Meisterstuck purchased at Art Brown in 1984. After 38 years, every part has been replaced except the nib. Still a gorgeous writing instrument, rock-solid reliable, gives me hours of pleasure to use.

Current favorite ink: Colorverse Supernovs

Current favorite paper: Romeo notepads

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9 hours ago, LizEF said:

Both of these attributes really depend on the pen and paper, so my list may be off for you, therefore, more research is required before pursuing any given ink.  I have a gut feel for which of these are more likely to shade or sheen and under what circumstances (they're all inks I've reviewed), so if you wish to ask about any specific one, feel free. That said, based off reviews, these (blue, blue-black, green, and teal inks) shade at least "medium", but didn't sheen (granted, in my EF nib):

  • Akkerman #09 Laan van Nieuw Oost-Indigo
  • Colorverse Warped Passages
  • De Atramentis Indigo Blue
  • De Atramentis Pigeon Blue
  • De Atramentis Sherlock Holmes
  • De Atramentis Steel Blue
  • Diamine Safari
  • Diamine Blue-Black
  • Diamine Denim
  • Diamine Eau de Nil
  • Diamine Pelham Blue
  • Diamine Indigo
  • Diamine Misty Blue
  • Diamine Prussian Blue
  • Diamine Regency Blue
  • Diamine Registrar's Ink
  • Diamine Salamander
  • Diamine Twilight
  • ESS Registrars Ink
  • Graf von Faber-Castell Olive Green
  • Hero 232 Blue-Black
  • KWZ Green Gold
  • KWZ Walk Over Vistula
  • L'Artisan Pastellier Callifolio Bleu Equinoxe (5)
  • L'Artisan Pastellier Callifolio Bonne Esperance
  • Lamy Blue-Black
  • Lamy Benitoite
  • Montblanc Permanent Blue
  • Montblanc Royal Blue
  • Montblanc Writers Edition Homer Greek Blue
  • Organics Studio Walt Whitman Leaves of Grass Dark Green
  • Pelikan Edelstein Olivine
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Shin-kai (Deep Sea)
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo (Moonlight)
  • Pilot Namiki Blue
  • Platinum Blue Black
  • Platinum Classic Forest Black
  • Robert Oster Blue Night
  • Robert Oster Forest Green
  • Robert Oster Green Lime
  • Robert Oster Lemon Grass
  • Robert Oster Midnight Sapphire
  • Robert Oster Moss
  • Robert Oster Thunderstorm
  • Rohrer & Klingner Alt-Goldgrun
  • Rohrer & Klingner Salix
  • Rohrer & Klingner SketchINK Emma
  • Rohrer & Klingner SketchINK Frieda
  • Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris
  • Sailor Kobe INK Story #15 Maiko Green
  • Sailor Kobe INK Story #38 Kitanozaka Night Blue
  • Sailor Shikiori Nioi-sumire
  • Sailor Shikiori Tokiwa-Matsu
  • Sailor Shikiori Yonaga
  • Sailor Souboku
  • Takeda Jimuki (TAG) Kyo No Oto Aonibi
  • Van Dieman's Ink Blackened Seas

I'm quite certain a few of those will sheen in a wet enough nib on FP-friendly paper, but it's late, and I'm going to bed, so we'll have to tackle that tomorrow. :)

LizEF, thank you SO much for this list!  If you find these inks shade in an EF, then they’ll definitey shade in my fine and medium nibs.

 

To refine this a little, which would you say offer VIVID colors, rather than muted or dusty colors?

 

Thanks!

GNL

Current favorite pen: Montblanc 144 Meisterstuck purchased at Art Brown in 1984. After 38 years, every part has been replaced except the nib. Still a gorgeous writing instrument, rock-solid reliable, gives me hours of pleasure to use.

Current favorite ink: Colorverse Supernovs

Current favorite paper: Romeo notepads

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32 minutes ago, GNL said:

If you find these inks shade in an EF, then they’ll definitey shade in my fine and medium nibs.

IMO, this is not necessarily so.  Wetness of the pen plays a larger role than nib size.

 

33 minutes ago, GNL said:

To refine this a little, which would you say offer VIVID colors, rather than muted or dusty colors?

I'll have to tackle this question later today. :)  Off to church now.  But I'll note that to most people, "vivid" seems to mean both a pure color and a highly saturated color, and those don't tend to shade...  If you care to give some examples of "vivid", that might help me figure out a list that works better for you.  Another note: I tend to like murky colors, so there may not be much on my list that qualifies...

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56 minutes ago, LizEF said:

.  If you care to give some examples of "vivid", that might help me figure out a list that works better for you. 

LizEF, I agree about dry writers vs. wet writers, but I don’t keep any dry writers.  Having returned to fountain pens after an absence of 10 years, now all my pens are wet writers.

 

In terms of vivid examples that shade, Colorverse Supernova is a bright blue that leaps off the page and shades gorgeously in my Pelikan M600 Fine.  On the other hand, Private Reserve DC Supershow Blue is highly saturated and vivid, but doesn’t shade for me at all.

 

Diamine November Rain isn’t a bright green, but it is vivid in that it’s a saturated green that then shades to black, a really marked difference of color within a single letter, which I adore.  Looking for more of those!  

 

J. Herbin Emerald of Chivor behaves very differently on different papers, but in my Japanese Romeo notebook with buff paper, it’s a vivid teal that shades well.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your guidance and expertise.

 

GNL

 

 

 

 

Current favorite pen: Montblanc 144 Meisterstuck purchased at Art Brown in 1984. After 38 years, every part has been replaced except the nib. Still a gorgeous writing instrument, rock-solid reliable, gives me hours of pleasure to use.

Current favorite ink: Colorverse Supernovs

Current favorite paper: Romeo notepads

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1 hour ago, GNL said:

now all my pens are wet writers

OK, so you're going to want extreme shading inks, or dry shading inks, cuz wet writers can leave too much ink behind for shading to happen (either because it back-fills the entire stroke, or because it puts down a fully saturated line).

 

I'm going to remove the ones that seem muted to me.  Those that remain may still be "iffy".  I recommend a google image search:

12 hours ago, LizEF said:
  • De Atramentis Adular Blue (not reviewed, but saw swatch card, might qualify)
  • De Atramentis Indigo Blue
  • De Atramentis Pigeon Blue
  • De Atramentis Steel Blue
  • Diamine Safari
  • Diamine Eau de Nil
  • Diamine Pelham Blue
  • Diamine Regency Blue
  • KWZ Walk Over Vistula
  • Montblanc Permanent Blue
  • Montblanc Royal Blue
  • Montblanc Writers Edition Homer Greek Blue
  • Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao
  • Pilot Namiki Blue
  • Robert Oster Forest Green
  • Robert Oster Green Lime
  • Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris
  • Sailor Kobe INK Story #15 Maiko Green
  • Sailor Shikiori Nioi-sumire

...maybe?

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The ‘wettest’ writer that I own is a Pelikan M805. It has a Pelikan ‘F’ nib.

 

In the range of blue-teal-green, inks that produce shading (but not sheen) in my M805 are:

 

Pelikan Edelstein Sapphire - a blue that leans far more towards the ‘violet’ side of blue than towards the ‘green’ side of blue;

 

Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine - the colour of this ink reminds me strongly of the ‘Aquamarine’ wax crayon that was in my box of Crayola crayons in ~1982. But I warn you that it does feel ‘dry’ under the nib, even from the nib of my M805;

 

Pelikan Edelstein Olivine - a dark green that has hints of blue in its hue, rather than being an ‘olive’ green colour;

 

In blue-black ink:

Rohrer & Klingner Salix - an iron-gall blue-black. No other ink shades quite like iron-gall inks do, and Salix remains more blue after oxidation than many other iron-gall blue-blacks (such as ‘Registrars’ Ink’).

 

Pelikan Edelstein Tanzanite is a very dark blue-black that shades nicely, but on some papers it also gives a reddish sheen.

 

If the idea of any of these inks appeals to you, I recommend that you read several reviews of each before buying - in addition to its colour, any ink may have some other property that you personally dislike. Reading several reviews will give you the best chance of discovering that you won’t like the ink before you spend money on it.

 

Good luck :thumbup:

Foul in clear conditions, but handsome in the fog.

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6 hours ago, LizEF said:

OK, so you're going to want extreme shading inks, or dry shading inks

Hi LizEF,

 

Thanks again for taking the time to advise me.  I’m going to check out these inks and continue my fountain pen education.  Much appreciated!

 

GNL

Current favorite pen: Montblanc 144 Meisterstuck purchased at Art Brown in 1984. After 38 years, every part has been replaced except the nib. Still a gorgeous writing instrument, rock-solid reliable, gives me hours of pleasure to use.

Current favorite ink: Colorverse Supernovs

Current favorite paper: Romeo notepads

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Hmm, I like sheening and saturated inks so I don't have a big library to pull from, from my personal swatches.  However, here's what I do know that might tick off your high shade, no sheen boxes:

- Diamine Night Shade (inkvent 2021, but they sell the individual 12mL bottles in some places) : this is a blurple more than a blue, so it might not be for you

- Pilot Iroshizuku Tsuyu-kusa : beautiful shading on this. But also no longer in production, so snab a bottle if you still can is my advice.  I think Appelboom still has some in stock, not sure about any US retailers
- Diamine Pelham Blue, just repeating what was said.  This is more a denim-indigo color.
- Monteverde Confidence - a lighter blue with some very nice shading
- Rohrer & Klingner Salix - a very dry ink, and an iron gall ink, but really great shading
- Graf von Faber Castell Gulf Blue - a very very sky light blue with strong shading
- Graf von Faber Castell Deep Sea Green - this is actually a blue leaning teal, but again, strong shading
- Diamine Aurora Borealis - it has very nice shading and only a hint of sheen.  But if you think November Rain doesn't have that much sheen, I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with Aurora Borealis too
- Octopus Fluids Crystal Blue - a pastel teal blue with great shading

- J. Herbin Vert Empire - the king of chameleon greens if you ask me, and all from shading
- Graf von Faber Castell Olive Green - a warm green with decent shading
- Caran d'Ache Delicate Green - a light spring green with good shading

 

Diamine makes a lot of nice inks that don't sheen, but a lot of them are pretty saturated too so you might have to work harder to see the shading.  Hope it helps!

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Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men always have a choice - if not whether, then how they endure.


- Lois McMaster Bujold

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7 hours ago, GNL said:

Hi LizEF,

 

Thanks again for taking the time to advise me.  I’m going to check out these inks and continue my fountain pen education.  Much appreciated!

 

GNL

You're welcome!  Happy hunting! :D

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5 hours ago, Enkida said:

Hmm, I like sheening and saturated inks so I don't have a big library to pull from, from my personal swatches.  However, here's what I do know that might tick off your high shade, no sheen boxes:

- Diamine Night Shade (inkvent 2021, but they sell the individual 12mL bottles in some places) : this is a blurple more than a blue, so it might not be for you

- Pilot Iroshizuku Tsuyu-kusa : beautiful shading on this. But also no longer in production, so snab a bottle if you still can is my advice.  I think Appelboom still has some in stock, not sure about any US retailers
- Diamine Pelham Blue, just repeating what was said.  This is more a denim-indigo color.
- Monteverde Confidence - a lighter blue with some very nice shading
- Rohrer & Klingner Salix - a very dry ink, and an iron gall ink, but really great shading
- Graf von Faber Castell Gulf Blue - a very very sky light blue with strong shading
- Graf von Faber Castell Deep Sea Green - this is actually a blue leaning teal, but again, strong shading
- Diamine Aurora Borealis - it has very nice shading and only a hint of sheen.  But if you think November Rain doesn't have that much sheen, I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with Aurora Borealis too
- Octopus Fluids Crystal Blue - a pastel teal blue with great shading

- J. Herbin Vert Empire - the king of chameleon greens if you ask me, and all from shading
- Graf von Faber Castell Olive Green - a warm green with decent shading
- Caran d'Ache Delicate Green - a light spring green with good shading

 

Diamine makes a lot of nice inks that don't sheen, but a lot of them are pretty saturated too so you might have to work harder to see the shading.  Hope it helps!

Thanks so much, Enkida!  Much appreciated.

Current favorite pen: Montblanc 144 Meisterstuck purchased at Art Brown in 1984. After 38 years, every part has been replaced except the nib. Still a gorgeous writing instrument, rock-solid reliable, gives me hours of pleasure to use.

Current favorite ink: Colorverse Supernovs

Current favorite paper: Romeo notepads

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Another vote for R&K Salix.  It supposedly has a lower IG content than some IG inks, which is why it doesn't oxidize as much and stays bluer.

And another vote for Iroshizuku Tsuya-kusa, which is a lovely restful color.  I don't know why it never got the love that some other Iroshizuku inks did (much as I do love Kon-peki), and was sorry to see it be discontinued, and snagged a backup bottle or two while I still could).

A number of inks I've tried which have lots of shading tend to be on the drier side (like Diamine Presidential Blue and Diamine Kensington Blue -- which I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned yet if you like shading, but both of which I found to be less lubricated in general and can't particularly recommend them).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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If you want a bright, cheerful blue like Sheaffer Turquoise or Waterman Inspired, Stipula Light Blue is a monster shader, without the pink/magenta sheen those two have.

It's hard work to tell which is Old Harry when everybody's got boots on.

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On 3/13/2022 at 11:23 AM, GNL said:

@Licue - I adore November Rain and don’t find it to have much sheen.  But it shades beautifully from a Sherwood green to black within individual letters, written with my Waterman Carene medium.  It shades less so in my Pelikan M600 medium, but I’m discovering that there are often perfect ink-pen combinations, so that Carene is going to see some fresh November Rain when it runs through its current supply of Emerald of Chivor.

Do you, by chance, use Rhodia paper? How you describe November Rain is my experience with it on Rhodia, but I usually have difficulty getting November Rain to not sheen. It sheens well enough in my daily planner and Post-It notes and it has a brilliant, solid metallic sheen on Tomoe River (TR). On TR paper it'll occasionally create that annoying smearable sheen dust but is well-behaved enough that I still use it.

 

One of my favorite things about November Rain is that its sheen might change colors over time. It took me a few months to use up a Shaeffer No Nonsense that I filled with November Rain. Near the end of that time the sheen took on two colors—the original pink and an electric blue. Sometimes they combined for a purple. I have yet to experience that effect with any other ink, but I was using a used, refilled cartridge. That may have been a once-in-a-lifetime perfect storm of chemical reaction. See the attached pictures and note that this effect is not consistent. I've inked other pens with November Rain and have not noticed these results (but those pens ran dry more quickly). Nor did I ever have a blue-sheening ink (do those exist?) or any shimmer ink in any of my No Nonsense pens. The pen/ink/paper combo you see in the included pictures was sheening pink until the last 10'ish percent of the syringe-filled cartridge.

 

(Do your best to ignore the content of my writing in the pictures. Oftentimes my writing is a combination of inky thoughts and quotes from whatever show is providing background noise. I think the deodorant quote is from Bob's Burgers. Also do your best to ignore the blue ink in the upper left. That was written with a different pen and ink.)

 

I'm certain that the blue sheen is an oddity but I have no idea how much the pink sheen can be considered the norm. Still, I'd treat November Rain like a sheening ink when it comes to pen choice and maintenance.

 

As for shaders, I'll +1 Diamine Pelham Blue but have difficulty teasing shade out of Pilot Namiki Blue. If you consider turquoise a blue then Noodler's Navajo Turquoise is one of my all-time favorite shaders. If you don't consider turquoise a blue then I'll tell you that I love mixing it with Namiki Blue (roughly 2/3 turq, 1/3 namiki) and adding 2-5 drops of Noodler's Black. Robert Oster's Lake of Fire and his Fire and Ice have some subtle shading.

 

I don't have a strong collection of greens but I love the depth of Diamine's Calligraphy Passion (I didn't like it at first but it grew on me). I'd skip Bloody Absinth and Smoke on the Water. They're similar enough to November Rain in everyday writing (both appearance and behavior) to not warrant buying them, IMO.

DNR on TR oddity - Detail.jpg

DNR on TR oddity - Full.jpg

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