Uncertain about Namiki Emperor / #50 Urushi

[tubular]

I've been going around in circles about getting a Namiki #50 Urushi, reading what you all have said about it, re-reading what you all have said about it, discarding the idea, getting interested again. 

 

Though I don't have big hands, I love big pens (my Conid Kingsize Bulkfiller, my Yukari Royale, my Kings of Pen, my Scribos).  So when I read people saying the Namiki #50 is too big for everyday use, I wonder what exactly that means.  Difficulty fitting it into a pocket wouldn't bother me, because I don't take my really good pens out of the house.  Difficulty wielding it because of the length of the nib might be a problem.  But when people say it is too big, what exactly do they mean?

Edited February 14, 2022 by tubular

[jandrese]

1 hour ago, tubular said:

I've been going around in circles about getting a Namiki #50 Urushi, reading what you all have said about it, re-reading what you all have said about it, discarding the idea, getting interested again. 

 

Though I don't have big hands, I love big pens (my Conid Kingsize Bulkfiller, my Yukari Royale, my Scribos).  So when I read people saying the Namiki #50 is too big for everyday use, I wonder what exactly that means.  Difficulty fitting it into a pocket wouldn't bother me, because I don't take my really good pens out of the house.  Difficulty wielding it because of the length of the nib might be a problem.  But when people say it is too big, what exactly do they mean?

Have no idea. Works for me easily for daily use. Try one if you can or just buy one. If you don’t dig it you can sell easily enough. 

[liubrian]

The simple answer is that you will have to try the Emperor to know for sure whether you like the size, but you can try to estimate how the size might feel by comparing it with your existing pens.

 

A quick Google brings up this comparison between the Yukari Royale, which you own, and the Emperor: https://www.sbrebrown.com/2019/06/fountain-pen-shootout-namiki-emperor-vs-namiki-yukari-royale/

 

The Emperor is clearly significantly larger in every dimension - but only you will know whether that would affect your writing experience.  I've handled an Emperor before and it definitely gave me a "huh, that's a big pen" response that is unlike any other pen I've used.  On the other hand, I regularly switch between a Pilot Custom 845 (well, the nearly-identical 75th anniversary pen) and a Custom Urushi, which have similar designs but are quite different in size.  The increased size of the Custom Urushi is imperceptible once you get used to it.  Maybe the Emperor works the same way?  Again, you'd really have to try it to know.

[tubular]

Thank you for responding, @jandrese and @liubrian.  I've watched the sbrebrown video a few times now, and I've pretended while writing with it that the top centimeter or so of my Yukari Royale's section was untouchable. 

 

You are certainly right that the only way to know for sure is to try.  I'm out of range of any place that carries these pens, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately!), so ordering would be a blind leap for me.  If I knew that those who have said the pen was too big for an EDC meant merely that it was difficult to carry around then I would order it tomorrow.

 

 

 

[dftr]

I wear motorcycle gloves medium and have no problem w the emperor. It is a very comfortable pen.  Obviously i do not post the nib. 
 

I do not take it out of the home. It is too big for my shirt pockets. Its not the sort of pen to pull out every 10 minutes to write a short note. I managed to get a case but really this is for a trip or something where i would sit and write. 
 

I use it about every other day.  I think it would be my only pen if I had to choose and then I would take it everywhere.  

[Paul-in-SF]

I was fortunate enough to be able to try an Emperor for size at a pen show (SF 2021), and it was enough to convince me that I didn't really want one. I don't have a Yukari Royale (yet) so that is my aspirational pen for now, and I just don't feel the need to go huger. 

 

For a purchase this large, I hope you can find a pen show or a pen friend to somehow put your hands on one before the purchase. 

[jmccarty3]

I have both the Yukari Royale and the #50. The #50 is lighter, which I think compensates for its being larger. I'll bet you will love it. I like them both better than the Pilot Custom Urushi.

[whichwatch]

4 hours ago, jmccarty3 said:

I have both the Yukari Royale and the #50. The #50 is lighter, which I think compensates for its being larger. I'll bet you will love it. I like them both better than the Pilot Custom Urushi.

 

I'm with Jay 100% on this.  I had all three and found the Custom Urushi "stuck in the middle" so sent it to foster care.  The Emperor and Yukari Royale live on happily in my collection.  Personally, I have no problem using the Emperor as an everyday writer whenever it comes up in rotation and I fill it.  I also have a Tohma, which is even larger, and that one does seem to be pushing the limit for me.

[tubular]

Thank you for your insight, @dftr, @jmccarty3, @Paul-in-SF, and @whichwatch. 

I am trying to sort out in my mind just why the #50 appeals to me as much as it does.  It is not the size--I find the size of the Yukari Royale pretty much perfect and don't wish it any longer.  It is instead what I hear (sometimes) about the responsiveness of the nib together with the reported perfection of the eyedropper.  I do wish Namiki made an ED in a smaller size.

 

I was interested in the Custom Urushi for a little while, but for me its looks are against it, no matter how much people praise the nib. 

 

[jandrese]

1 hour ago, tubular said:

Thank you for your insight, @dftr, @jmccarty3, @Paul-in-SF, and @whichwatch. 

I am trying to sort out in my mind just why the #50 appeals to me as much as it does.  It is not the size--I find the size of the Yukari Royale pretty much perfect and don't wish it any longer.  It is instead what I hear (sometimes) about the responsiveness of the nib together with the reported perfection of the eyedropper.  I do wish Namiki made an ED in a smaller size.

 

I was interested in the Custom Urushi for a little while, but for me its looks are against it, no matter how much people praise the nib. 

 

I know what you mean about the looks of the Custom Urushi. For mine I got one with bespoke urushi/maki-e by Morgan Wisser. So, can always customize your Custom. 

[tubular]

46 minutes ago, jandrese said:

I know what you mean about the looks of the Custom Urushi. For mine I got one with bespoke urushi/maki-e by Morgan Wisser. So, can always customize your Custom. 

 

Just out of curiosity, @jandrese:  what does your recustomized Custom look like?

[liubrian]

3 hours ago, tubular said:

Thank you for your insight, @dftr, @jmccarty3, @Paul-in-SF, and @whichwatch. 

I am trying to sort out in my mind just why the #50 appeals to me as much as it does.  It is not the size--I find the size of the Yukari Royale pretty much perfect and don't wish it any longer.  It is instead what I hear (sometimes) about the responsiveness of the nib together with the reported perfection of the eyedropper.  I do wish Namiki made an ED in a smaller size.

 

I was interested in the Custom Urushi for a little while, but for me its looks are against it, no matter how much people praise the nib. 

 

 

I also wanted a smaller Namiki ED and then realized I already owned one, or at least as close as you can get to one.  Try a Ban-ei pen, discussed in various threads on this forum as well as pages like https://estilofilos.blogspot.com/2011/11/ban-ei.html

 

According to page 73 of Fountain Pens of Japan, Ban-ei was commissioned by Pilot to make a prototype when they were reintroducing their #50 (ie Emperor-sized) model in 198, so there's a bit of a connection there.  I'd say that the basic black and red Ban-ei eyedroppers are as close as you can get to a Yukari-sized Emperor, though of course they aren't literally made by Pilot.  These pens are reasonably common on Yahoo Auctions (though at ever-increasing prices), and some dealers may have them too.  You could have a look at Euro-box and maybe send an email.  Two pens were recently listed but are now sold, see items a211206 and a211207 here: https://euro-box.com/biz/726.

[lionelc]

i think it is also about the practicality of transporting and using a 15.7cm fountain pen with a #50 base price tag of 2k usd.  if everyday use means everyday use at home and nowhere else - it is definitely worth consideration.  i dont travel with my namiki emperor - could just imagine the look on the kokkokai member's face if i need to ask them to fix yoshida-san's work.

[tubular]

42 minutes ago, liubrian said:

 

I also wanted a smaller Namiki ED and then realized I already owned one, or at least as close as you can get to one.  Try a Ban-ei pen, discussed in various threads on this forum as well as pages like https://estilofilos.blogspot.com/2011/11/ban-ei.html

 

According to page 73 of Fountain Pens of Japan, Ban-ei was commissioned by Pilot to make a prototype when they were reintroducing their #50 (ie Emperor-sized) model in 198, so there's a bit of a connection there.  I'd say that the basic black and red Ban-ei eyedroppers are as close as you can get to a Yukari-sized Emperor, though of course they aren't literally made by Pilot.  These pens are reasonably common on Yahoo Auctions (though at ever-increasing prices), and some dealers may have them too.  You could have a look at Euro-box and maybe send an email.  Two pens were recently listed but are now sold, see items a211206 and a211207 here: https://euro-box.com/biz/726.

 

I did not know any of this, @liubrian.  I shall have to do some reading!

 

[tubular]

1 hour ago, lionelc said:

i think it is also about the practicality of transporting and using a 15.7cm fountain pen with a #50 base price tag of 2k usd.  if everyday use means everyday use at home and nowhere else - it is definitely worth consideration.  i dont travel with my namiki emperor - could just imagine the look on the kokkokai member's face if i need to ask them to fix yoshida-san's work.

 

Yes.  Some of the pens I carry with me now I would not have considered carrying before my more recent, delicate, and expensive ones came along.  I now think of my Montblancs as tough old things, which is of course ridiculous.

 

But it is all too easy to begin thinking of the #50 as the supremely practical choice:  nice and simple, with no piston or sac to go wrong, with urushi to protect the ebonite, with the capacity of a moderate camel. 

 

[jandrese]

13 hours ago, tubular said:

 

Just out of curiosity, @jandrese:  what does your recustomized Custom look like?

[tubular]

18 minutes ago, jandrese said:

So cool!  The whole thing is amazing, but I especially love that sun, looking as wonderfully hot and mottled as in the latest NASA photos!

[gerigo]

The Emperor is one of those pens I bought quite early on with my growing interest in pens. While in my eyes, the proportioning could be better, there were many other features of the pen that made is so intriguing and attractive. The unique filling system, the simplicity of the shape, the crimson feed and the absolutely giant nib. Enough for me to pick up the pen on one of my trips to Tokyo back in 2015 or so.

 

I thought it would be a trophy pen, primarily a display and occasional writing instrument, as it was unquestionably large. However after many years of ownership, not only have I enjoyed the pen tremendously, it has turned out to be a great writer and an everyday writer to boot. So much so that I have 2 and plan to acquire the 3rd. While it is true because of the size, it is harder to find a case to fit the pen, but if you think more broadly, there are cases to be found out there. I have quite a few pen cases that easily fit the Emperor.

 

The most critical thing about using the Emperor rather than relegate it to becoming an object d'art is your grip. If you have a fairly loose grip, your hand size is less relevant. If you have a death grip, the Emperor is out of the question as the large nib forces you to hold the pen quite high up off the page, and there is no doubt the grip is wider than most pens. There are 2 things about pens that's important when it comes to fit that most people don't mention. The balance of the pen and also the size of the nib. Despite the size of the pen, it is so balanced that it feels like a much smaller pen. However the large nib is something you can't ignore. The nib forces a very high palm off the table writing style. If you hold your pen close to the grip, this pen will fee exceedingly uncomfortable to you.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

[tubular]

23 hours ago, gerigo said:

The most critical thing about using the Emperor rather than relegate it to becoming an object d'art is your grip. If you have a fairly loose grip, your hand size is less relevant. If you have a death grip, the Emperor is out of the question as the large nib forces you to hold the pen quite high up off the page, and there is no doubt the grip is wider than most pens. There are 2 things about pens that's important when it comes to fit that most people don't mention. The balance of the pen and also the size of the nib. Despite the size of the pen, it is so balanced that it feels like a much smaller pen. However the large nib is something you can't ignore. The nib forces a very high palm off the table writing style. If you hold your pen close to the grip, this pen will fee exceedingly uncomfortable to you.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

It is indeed helpful, @gerigo; thank you. 

 

I imagine two possible ways of dealing with the length of the nib.  One would be to put something under the side of the writing hand to elevate it--but that would be a nuisance to move as one progressed down the page.  The other would be to hold the pen at a greater angle from the vertical--but that might move the part of the nib in contact with the page away from the sweet spot.  Does either of these seem practical? 

 

Holding the palm away from the paper seems impossible.  Merely retracting the hand (so that the back of the hand would move from a roughly 145 degree angle towards roughly a 120 degree angle with the wrist) seems as if it would lead eventually to tendon strain. 

[Al-Bajaa]

@tubulardid you end up getting the Namiki 50? I am considering getting one myself.