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Help with Cartridges for Vintage Platinum Pocket Pens


OldTravelingShoe
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1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

large.2082560389_ObviousproblemwithPlatinumpocketpenno_10.jpg.893b9555accc270a31259d6ed6c09f43.jpg

Very nice edit, @A Smug Dill. I am starting to think there is something wrong with how the metal thread is hooked into Pen 10 -- could it be reversed? The piece seems to me very similar to what I remember reading about in reviews of Pilot Myu 701s, and I have an even vaguer recollection that there the metal threads could be screwed-in wrongly. But I'd like to hear some opinions before I brute-force this piece to unscrew it; I could really damage the grip of Pen 10 this way. 

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4 minutes ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Very nice edit, @A Smug Dill. I am starting to think there is something wrong with how the metal thread is hooked into Pen 10 -- could it be reversed? The piece seems to me very similar to what I remember reading about in reviews of Pilot Myu 701s, and I have an even vaguer recollection that there the metal threads could be screwed-in wrongly. But I'd like to hear some opinions before I brute-force this piece to unscrew it; I could really damage the grip of Pen 10 this way. 

 

That was my problem exactly.  And I used too much force, wrecking the connector forever.

My other pen is a Montblanc and...

 

My other blog is a tumblr.

 

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Update #4: Carefully, we got to unscrew the metal part. (It was my better half who did it. She got annoyed with what I was telling the pen and took the matter into her own hands. Voila!) The part seems ok, maybe it could work better in reverse, but the real issue cannot be this -- it simply cannot compensate for +/- 7 mm. Figure 1 shows the part, the ring part that connects it with the grip (section toward the nib), and the barrel below it.

 

 20220116_155914.thumb.jpg.4cdebf16aa177cf3a60ea71d7707fd7c.jpg

Figure 1. The metal thread and parts.

 

So I got back at the issue with the 'nipple'. After inspecting again the object (see the photo in one of my previous posts*), I am beginning to think an old cartridge cracked inside, leaving exactly the narrower tip up to where the standard cartridge begins to get larger, and including a couple of millimeters into that; Figure 2 depicts this idea, with label A the part that I believe stayed glued to the 'nipple'. I tried removing this by placing the pen into an ultrasonic cleaner for about 5 minutes, but it did not work. I'm now trying to remove this part, but I'm not sure I have the kind of tweezers needed for this.

 

20220116_standard_Platinum_cartridge_coverter_crack-hypothesis.jpg.dc70654c5c02490a76d3a52bd809a0bf.jpg

Figure 2. The standard Platinum cartridge, with part A in discussion here.

 

 

Look forward to thinking together about this.

 

 

 

* Previous post with the image:

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3 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Regarding Pen 10, it seems to have inside a 'nipple' that is of the same size as the others, but much shorter. So I could attach to it the cartridge and the pen works, but I cannot screw-in the barrel over this setup.

 

I saw mentioned an extender for "international standard" cartridges; thanks @grainweevil and  @A Smug Dill for this. I tried such a cartridge from a Kaweco, but it did not fit and I believe the mouth of this cartridge is too narrow for this 'nipple'. Is there another way to test this? 

 

I am also beginning to think the steel(?) threads could have been mounted in reverse. They are stuck here and there is a little gap between the GT ring and the grip. In contrast, Pen 11, which should be identical, has a removable steel(?) thread. Did you encounter such a situation? If you did, I could try to forcefully remove the threads and check the opposite 'nipple', but I am reluctant to do this unless it is a credible possibility. 

 

 

20220116_113637.jpg.fa9aadc6a0ec59e92fa14b156934339f.jpg

Figure 1. The interior of Pen 10. The pen points downward, nib opposite to where the photo is taken. This is the grip with attached steel(?) threads. The barrel is removed so I could take the photo.

 

The nipple should look more prominent. Is there something in the section, maybe a lot of old, dried up ink, the remains of a broken cartridge, or something else? You have this pen's twin - you could compare measurements from the top of the threads to the top of the nipple and to the bottom of the section next to the nipple, using a toothpick or something. 

 

Regardless, a shorter nipple shouldn't have any effect on the cartridge sticking out of the section too far. (Though maybe the cartridge won't seat right. I have a broken nipple on a Pilot pocket pen such that the nipple is still long enough to form a seal with the cartridge's mouth but the cartridge doesn't grab on - it just stays loose and falls off. I just stuffed a piece of a paper napkin into the back of the barrel to keep the cartridge pressed up against the nipple.) 

 

1 hour ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Very nice edit, @A Smug Dill. I am starting to think there is something wrong with how the metal thread is hooked into Pen 10 -- could it be reversed? The piece seems to me very similar to what I remember reading about in reviews of Pilot Myu 701s, and I have an even vaguer recollection that there the metal threads could be screwed-in wrongly. But I'd like to hear some opinions before I brute-force this piece to unscrew it; I could really damage the grip of Pen 10 this way. 

 

It's very unlikely that it's reversed. You can compare to its twin. If it actually is reversed then, as long as you can screw on the barrel fully, it will still have the same internal space for the cartridge as its twin. 

Script nib for writing screenplays. • Fine nib for my best writing. • Extra fine for my *very* best writing. • Medium for requesting a séance. • Bold for adventure stories. • Manifold for many various types of writing. • Coarse for indignant letters. • Oblique for making a point in a roundabout way. • Italic when I'm inclined. • Stub for when I intend to leave a manuscript unfinis

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3 minutes ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

So I got back at the issue with the 'nipple'. After inspecting again the object (see the photo in one of my previous posts*), I am beginning to think an old cartridge cracked inside, leaving exactly the narrower tip up to where the standard cartridge begins to get larger, and including a couple of millimeters into that

 

3 minutes ago, PithyProlix said:

Is there something in the section, maybe a lot of old, dried up ink, the remains of a broken cartridge, or something else?

 

Jinx! 😄

Script nib for writing screenplays. • Fine nib for my best writing. • Extra fine for my *very* best writing. • Medium for requesting a séance. • Bold for adventure stories. • Manifold for many various types of writing. • Coarse for indignant letters. • Oblique for making a point in a roundabout way. • Italic when I'm inclined. • Stub for when I intend to leave a manuscript unfinis

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Just now, PithyProlix said:

The nipple should look more prominent. Is there something in the section, maybe a lot of old, dried up ink, the remains of a broken cartridge, [...] compare to its twin.

@PithyProlix, thank you, and it's funny our messages intersected. I compared with the twin pen and found the nipple to be much more prominent with the latter. My prime candidate for an explanation is now that the remains of a broken cartridge have glued to the nipple. This would be consistent with the situation. It explains why the pen could work with a cartridge attached (the nipple still sticks out a bit, so it can still draw ink ), and also why the pen would not close (the new cartridge could not push past the old remnants, so it would be left hanging outside by enough that the barrel would not screw in). 

 

With this explanation, the question becomes: how to remove this part? I'm not experienced at all with these kinds of objects and may not even have the specialist tools. But any idea would help. In the meantime, I'm back to manicurist tweezers; at least we have them at home...

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1 minute ago, PithyProlix said:

Jinx! 😄

Knowledge, on your part! 😃

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4 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

I am also beginning to think the steel(?) threads could have been mounted in reverse. They are stuck here and there is a little gap between the GT ring and the grip. In contrast, Pen 11, which should be identical, has a removable steel(?) thread. Did you encounter such a situation? If you did, I could try to forcefully remove the threads and check the opposite 'nipple', but I am reluctant to do this unless it is a credible possibility. 

 

 

I have not encountered this exact situation but I think it is plausible.  I don't have one of these pens at the moment but I have played with others' and recall that the steel threads 1) should unscrew from the plastic section and 2) can be screwed in in the wrong direction.  This would explain the gap with the gold trim ring as well.  Perhaps try unscrewing with some rubber sheeting and gentle heat?  Presumably it shouldn't be stuck fast if someone else has previously unscrewed it and put it together incorrectly.

 

One of my friends had this pen missing the gold trim ring - we were able to arrange for a repair via the local Platinum distributor and it was sent back to Japan for a replacement ring to be installed.  So it might be an option to have your pen go back to the factory, though you'd have to make your own enquiries to confirm.  This was back in 2018 in Hong Kong.

 

=======

 

After typing up the above, I realized I hadn't gone to the 2nd page of the thread.  I see that you have unscrewed the steel threads but that it hasn't solved the problem.  I agree with your assessment of the situation - probably very long sharp tweezers (or steel dividers or similar) are the way to go.  Stab and rotate?

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Update #5: We managed to unfasten a broken piece from likely a standard Platinum cartridge. We recommend the crochet hook 1.5, it's a wonderful pen fixer in the hands of my better half. The mystery is finally solved! 

 

Figure 1 shows the outcome - Pen 10 works nicely. 

 

20220116_165752.jpg.7386bfca08bde737f6433d516abb7d2c.jpg

Figure 1. The working Pen 10 next to the source of its previous problems, a broken part from a standard Platinum cartridge, about 7 mm long. 

 

Conclusion: Many thanks, everyone. After all this, I feel like a member of the community, both in gratitude and in spirit. (I've just spent hours fixing a pen for the sake of it and feel elated for having done so. If this is not a passion for fountain pens, I don't know what is.) 

Edited by OldTravelingShoe
Edited for correctly attributing the implementation of our solution.
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Wonder if it's the remnants of a squeeze converter? Not important; it's out. Your perseverance is rewarded, OTS. 

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@OldTravelingShoe Bravo! 👏 Not only have you figured it out and then resolved the problem, but you also managed to enlist the active participation of your better half in your hobbyist endeavour, when it doesn't sound like playing with fountain pens is her hobby. Well done!

 

Congratulations! I hope she and you enjoy using the pen very much, after all that. 😃

 

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Awesome sauce! 

Script nib for writing screenplays. • Fine nib for my best writing. • Extra fine for my *very* best writing. • Medium for requesting a séance. • Bold for adventure stories. • Manifold for many various types of writing. • Coarse for indignant letters. • Oblique for making a point in a roundabout way. • Italic when I'm inclined. • Stub for when I intend to leave a manuscript unfinis

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Congratulations! Always good to see a lengthy pen repair mystery get a happy ending.

 

16 hours ago, grainweevil said:

Wonder if it's the remnants of a squeeze converter? Not important; it's out. Your perseverance is rewarded, OTS. 

 

I think you're right.  I can't imagine how a cartridge could have broken off so evenly and so deep within the barrel, whereas squeeze converters (of other brands - I haven't seen any Platinum ones to compare against) often use such a connecting piece to mate the sac to the feed.

 

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34 minutes ago, liubrian said:

I can't imagine how a cartridge could have broken off so evenly and so deep within the barrel, whereas squeeze converters (of other brands - I haven't seen any Platinum ones to compare against) often use such a connecting piece to mate the sac to the feed.

16 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

20220116_165752.jpg.7386bfca08bde737f6433d516abb7d2c.jpg

 

I don't think some converter of Platinum manufacture just “broke off” like that. Considering the shape of the grey cement-like stuff that seems to only be on the right side of the divide at the halfway mark on that piece of foreign matter, I strongly suspect a previous owner has already tried the whole, ”Let's engineer a sac converter for the pen at home, since there isn't one that fits,” and eventually someone pulled the sac part off it when getting the pen ready for disposal or sale.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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*******

Hmm, I was viewing this on a tablet and didn't notice there was a second page of responses. At least I got the problem/solution right... better late than never? 🙄

*******

 

It looks like there's a detached cartridge mouth stuck on the feed of your #10 pen.

 

The connector (threaded metal sleeve that couples the section and barrel end) can be removed to offer a better view of the situation by carefully un-screwing it from the section.

If this turns out to be the case, you can probably extract the stuck piece by pushing an empty Pilot or Sailor cartridge over the stub of the broken Plat cartridge, then using it to spin the stuck piece off of the feed (rotate the part until it gets easier to turn, then gently pull outward while rotating. It may take a few tries to work).

David-

 

So many restoration projects...

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What I *can* add to this discussion is the fact that Plat cartridges are made of two pieces, with the mouth being glued or heat bonded in to the cartridge body. I have had one or two vintage carts separate at this joint and another leak around the joint, when refilled.

 

I'd guess that the high insertion force required and tight grip that the thick-walled cartridge mouth exerts are contributing causes, though I've never had other two-part carts (Lamy, Parker, new style Sheaffer) separate at the joint... Though the Plat carts that did come apart may have been 50 years old.

David-

 

So many restoration projects...

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Many thanks, @A Smug Dill, @PithyProlix, @liubrian, @awa54, for the kind messages. It is very exciting to see everyone engaged and helping out, and the dose of mystery helps too!

 

Good vibes indeed. 

 

P.S.: @A Smug Dillnoticed the involvement of my better half. She's not using a fountain pen (yet), but is kind enough to tolerate and even encourage what I do. Hehe. 

 

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