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Help with Cartridges for Vintage Platinum Pocket Pens


OldTravelingShoe
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Good evening from the Netherlands, everyone, 

 

TL;DR: I bought several vintage pocket pens made by Platinum and I cannot fit in any of them the 58.8 standard Platinum cartridge. Their barrels are just too short. Are there shorter  cartridges from Platinum (and, if so, do you know where)? Are there converters or cartridges from any source I could use instead? Thank you for your help. 

 

Update, Jan 16, 12:34 CET: Thanks to your generous help and excellent expertise, I got all the pens to work except Pen 10 in my experiment. That seems to be a pen with an issue, so my conclusion is the standard 58.8 mm Platinum cartridge works well in vintage Platinum pens. 

 

 

Details: I bought what seems to be three generations of vintage pocket pens made by Platinum for which the standard cartridge is too long. Figure 1 depicts the problem: The barrel does not close because the cartridge is too long. 

 

20220115_190348.thumb.jpg.f586b40813c09b5657b1d031e857deb4.jpg

Figure 1. The pen barrel does not close; the cartridge is too long by M = 7 mm. 

 

The difference of ~7 mm (label M in Figure 1) is the problem. For the modern Platinum cartridge to fit, the barrels of my pocket pens should be 48 mm or longer; 50 mm or longer to leave some tolerance for interior material. Unfortunately for me, they are much shorter. 

 

Figure 2 shows the lengths of the barrel for each of the three generations of pens I have tried. Based on my reading of Richard Binder's book and article on the topic, I believe they are all made from the 1960s through late 1970s. The length of the barrels for the three generations ranges from ~35 mm to ~41 mm. As mentioned earlier, I needed the values of X, Y, and Z to be at least 48 mm, and preferably at least 50 mm. 

 

20220115_185731.thumb.jpg.8311f551f71cd620d1db774367395df4.jpg

Figure 2. Barrel length for each pen generation. 

 

I tried finding more information about this, on FPN and elsewhere, but couldn't. The general advice is to use standard Platinum cartridges, but these don't work here.

 

I would appreciate your help. General comments are also welcome. 

 

Thank you! 

Edited by OldTravelingShoe
Edited for clarity. Updated with the conclusion.
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No specialist know-how here at all, but might the Platinum-to-"International Standard" convertor doohickey work with a short "International Standard" cartridge?

 

"International Standard" in inverted commas, because, well, there isn't one. 😀

 

Alternatively, a cut-off Platinum cartridge top with a sac attached to make a custom squeeze filler.

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12 minutes ago, grainweevil said:

make a custom squeeze filler.

 

Like this

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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Indeed. Or if there's a hole in the end of the barrel, a blow filler like this😄

 

Sort of by-the-by, but I absolutely love how the "old school" ink sac can be used to deal with things like rubbish mini converters in small pens or no-longer available cartridge dilemmas. It's such a useful option to have in ones arsenal.

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@grainweevil, @Karmachanic, first, thanks, second, ooooh!, third, looks like I bit more than I could chew, fourth, now I gotta try your solution. So many new ideas! 

 

Re: point four, may take a bit, because I don't know any store that sells rubber sacs (#18, says the link from @Karmachanic) in the Netherlands or even in Europe. (From the same link, I saw pensacs.com is still active, in the US. Don't think Richard Binder still sells this kind of stuff.) 

 

Thanks both. 

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From what I can see those look like fairly common Platinum pocket pens - I have some myself - and a standard Platinum cartridge should fit. Are you sure the cartridges are completely seated? They can be a tight fit and sometimes the part that goes into the mouth of the cartridge can get bent a little off-center, making it impossible to fit a cartridge without getting that piece straight again.

 

Can you show photos of the entire of each pen, preferably next to a ruler? 

Script nib for writing screenplays. • Fine nib for my best writing. • Extra fine for my *very* best writing. • Medium for requesting a séance. • Bold for adventure stories. • Manifold for many various types of writing. • Coarse for indignant letters. • Oblique for making a point in a roundabout way. • Italic when I'm inclined. • Stub for when I intend to leave a manuscript unfinis

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A standard Platinum cartridge is 58mm long. I looked through a batch of cartridges, some from the 1970s, and the longest was 58.5mm. I've sold many of these pens and do not recall Platinum ever using a smaller cartridge. Converters are another issue as both Sailor and Platinum made mini converters the first or second years of pocket pen production.

 

Maybe your cartridge is not fully seated onto the section. Try twisting the cartridge as it is installed. Please check.

Your photos only show the barrel. Are you trying to install the cartridge or a converter?

stan

Formerly Ryojusen Pens
The oldest and largest buyer and seller of vintage Japanese pens in America.


Member: Pen Collectors of America & Fuente, THE Japanese Pen Collectors Club

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2 minutes ago, stan said:

A standard Platinum cartridge is 58mm long. I looked through a batch of cartridges, some from the 1970s, and the longest was 58.5mm.

 

Do you know which pens the longer Platinum cartridges fit? I have a box of them (blue black) that came along with a bunch of vintage converters I purchased. The only vintage full-length Platinums I have are a flat-capped 3776 and a gathered and these long cartridges are too long. 

Script nib for writing screenplays. • Fine nib for my best writing. • Extra fine for my *very* best writing. • Medium for requesting a séance. • Bold for adventure stories. • Manifold for many various types of writing. • Coarse for indignant letters. • Oblique for making a point in a roundabout way. • Italic when I'm inclined. • Stub for when I intend to leave a manuscript unfinis

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5 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Good evening from the Netherlands, everyone, 

 

TL;DR: I bought several vintage pocket pens made by Platinum and I cannot fit in any of them the 58.8 standard Platinum cartridge. Their barrels are just too short. Are there shorter  cartridges from Platinum (and, if so, do you know where)? Are there converters or cartridges from any source I could use instead? Thank you for your help. 

 

Details: I bought what seems to be three generations of vintage pocket pens made by Platinum for which the standard cartridge is too long. Figure 1 depicts the problem: The barrel does not close because the cartridge is too long. 

 

20220115_190348.thumb.jpg.f586b40813c09b5657b1d031e857deb4.jpg

Figure 1. The pen barrel does not close; the cartridge is too long by M = 7 mm. 

 

The difference of ~7 mm (label M in Figure 1) is the problem. For the modern Platinum cartridge to fit, the barrels of my pocket pens should be 48 mm or longer; 50 mm or longer to leave some tolerance for interior material. Unfortunately for me, they are much shorter. 

 

Figure 2 shows the lengths of the barrel for each of the three generations of pens I have tried. Based on my reading of Richard Binder's book and article on the topic, I believe they are all made from the 1960s through late 1970s. The length of the barrels for the three generations ranges from ~35 mm to ~41 mm. As mentioned earlier, I needed the values of X, Y, and Z to be at least 48 mm, and preferably at least 50 mm. 

 

20220115_185731.thumb.jpg.8311f551f71cd620d1db774367395df4.jpg

Figure 2. Barrel length for each pen generation. 

 

I tried finding more information about this, on FPN and elsewhere, but couldn't. The general advice is to use standard Platinum cartridges, but these don't work here.

 

I would appreciate your help. General comments are also welcome. 

 

Thank you! 

 

I ran into this same problem with one of my Platinum pocket pens.  Never did find a solution, but my second pocket pen takes carts just fine.

My other pen is a Montblanc and...

 

My other blog is a tumblr.

 

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large.298914274_PlatinumvintagepocketpencanaccommodateamodernPlatinuminkcartridge.jpg.faa941f371a7fe17df6beece21982cbb.jpg

 

The cartridge I use as the ink reservoir in my wife's ‘vintage’ Platinum pocket pen is just one that came with some current production Platinum pen model (quite possibly a Preppy or Plaisir).

 

4 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

Are you sure the cartridges are completely seated?

 

That would be my first question; but,

 

4 hours ago, stan said:

Maybe your cartridge is not fully seated onto the section. Try twisting the cartridge as it is installed. Please check.

6 hours ago, grainweevil said:

No specialist know-how here at all, but might the Platinum-to-"International Standard" convertor doohickey work with a short "International Standard" cartridge?

 

instead of looking at the possibility of an alternative solution involving an adapter to use (short) “international standard” ink cartridges in the pen, I'd first check whether there is one of those already installed in the pocket pen, thus preventing a regular Platinum ink cartridge from fitting onto the true ‘nipple’ of the ink collector. I imagine such an adapter could be difficult to see when hidden deep in a pocket pen's long gripping section.

 

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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34 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

large.298914274_PlatinumvintagepocketpencanaccommodateamodernPlatinuminkcartridge.jpg.38dcd436a9fd977526d53c2ded3d4601.jpg

 

The cartridge I use as the ink reservoir in my wife's ‘vintage’ Platinum pocket pen is just one that came with some current production Platinum pen model (quite possibly a Preppy or Plaisir).

 

Coincidentally, I received this same pen, color, nib size, and all, two days ago and I tried one of the newer Platinum cartridges from China yesterday. These cartridges, which I have started seeing only recently, are completely cylindrical - i. e. same diameter throughout its length - except for its mouth. Those did not fit - I think not because of its length but more because the butt end isn't tapered (that said, they would have also fit if they were shorter). 

 

I don't recall if I have tried them in any of my other Platinum pockets but I don't think so. So, just a word of warning to the original poster that the Chinese Platinum cartridges may not fit. 

Script nib for writing screenplays. • Fine nib for my best writing. • Extra fine for my *very* best writing. • Medium for requesting a séance. • Bold for adventure stories. • Manifold for many various types of writing. • Coarse for indignant letters. • Oblique for making a point in a roundabout way. • Italic when I'm inclined. • Stub for when I intend to leave a manuscript unfinis

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Many thanks for all the answers. They are truly excellent, and indicate are two main lines of work I need to do:

  1. Explore whether the standard cartridge does fit, but I may have not used it correctly. I will start with the cartridge attached without the barrel closed, just to see if the pen works this way, and then proceed to trying to screw-in the barrel. If I still cannot figure how to fit the cartridge, I should show how it does not fit with more detailed pictures. I plan to do this today; I spent so far the morning preparing for it. (I do not own calipers, but I have a ruler, and I did my due diligence to understand what a caliper is and how it works. For a difference of ~7 mm, the ruler should work.) 
  2. Explore using a shorter cartridge with a rubber tube or cap to close it. I would need to create this artifact manually. Thanks to @Karmachanicfor finding a source of pen sacs nearby, this one, in the UK. 

Thanks again. I'm off to experiment with and measure these pens, and will return with an update including detailed photos. 

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I find that Platinum cartridges can often be a bit of a tight fit, and the best way to ensure they're fully seated is to hold the pen nib up and push the cartridge end against a table.  Watch out for ink splashes though.  To avoid splashing, try not to squeeze the cartridge with your fingers while you push down (by gripping the section).

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7 minutes ago, liubrian said:

I find that Platinum cartridges can often be a bit of a tight fit, and the best way to ensure they're fully seated is to hold the pen nib up and push the cartridge end against a table

Thank you, @liubrian, this is very useful. Also, just in time for my inking challenge! 

 

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Update: the pens under test, lined up. I will try five, which in my measurement correspond to three different barrel-lengths. So all information is in one place, allow me to repeat information from the OP -- the three lengths I measured are ~35 mm (pens 8 and 10), ~38 mm (pens 4 and 5), and ~41 mm (pen 1). For reference, Figure 1 also shows: (bottom) the head of a Preppy pen with cartridge, and (top) the Platinum standard gold converter and the standard 58.8 mm cartridge, both of which seemed to me to be too long. 

 

20220116_111428.thumb.jpg.11419d449130b2aca9ede43db841460c.jpg

Figure 1. Pens lined up for this experiment. 

 

Let me know if you'd prefer a more detailed photo, or a photo emphasizing other aspects of any of the pens. Also, other comments and ideas remain most wlecome. 

 

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Quick update #2: I started with pen 10, which has the shortest kind of barrel in this experiment, and:

  1. I can fit the standard Platinum cartridge at the end of it and the pen writes (see the "|||||" and "==" scribbles in Figure 1). 
  2. Using @liubrian's advice, to get the cartridge as deeply inserted as I can, I placed the end of the cartridge on the table, kept the nib up, and pushed from the grip quite hard. 
  3. As in the OP, I was not able to even begin to screw-in the barrel. The ~7 mm gap remains. 

20220116_112651.jpg.07d66ba1c5c19147b332137fc60a6188.jpg

Figure 1. The result of trying to fit the standard Platinum cartridge in pen 10.

 

Comments and ideas remain most welcome. 

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Quick update #3 / TL;DR: All pens but Pen 10 work. Pen 10 is different, which is something to try to understand later. Figure 1 shows working a pen that looks a bit like the pens of @A Smug Dill and @PithyProlix; not the same, but similar.

 

Figure 2 shows all the pens in the test, plus Pen 11, which was supposed to be an exact copy of Pen 10, but it isn't (and it works). 

 

20220116_121307.jpg.8fb17100ccf36f681c64ba821bb949f0.jpg

Figure 1. Pen 4 works!

 

20220116_121200.thumb.jpg.e49676cf1faf201ef0baf29807ad7904.jpg

Figure 2. All pens but pen 10 work. 

 

 

Conclusion: The standard Platinum cartridge works perfectly in vintage Platinum pens. There are also alternatives, such as engineering a pen + rubber sac variant; for this, there exist both good sources of material in Europe and excellent expertise in the FPN community. 

 

I also learned the valuable lesson that one should test all pens in a set before rushing to consume the valuable time of others. Nevertheless, I appreciate your generous help; it's just that I will try not to abuse it in the future. 

 

Edited by OldTravelingShoe
Corrected typos.
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Regarding Pen 10, it seems to have inside a 'nipple' that is of the same size as the others, but much shorter. So I could attach to it the cartridge and the pen works, but I cannot screw-in the barrel over this setup.

 

I saw mentioned an extender for "international standard" cartridges; thanks @grainweevil and  @A Smug Dill for this. I tried such a cartridge from a Kaweco, but it did not fit and I believe the mouth of this cartridge is too narrow for this 'nipple'. Is there another way to test this? 

 

I am also beginning to think the steel(?) threads could have been mounted in reverse. They are stuck here and there is a little gap between the GT ring and the grip. In contrast, Pen 11, which should be identical, has a removable steel(?) thread. Did you encounter such a situation? If you did, I could try to forcefully remove the threads and check the opposite 'nipple', but I am reluctant to do this unless it is a credible possibility. 

 

 

20220116_113637.jpg.fa9aadc6a0ec59e92fa14b156934339f.jpg

Figure 1. The interior of Pen 10. The pen points downward, nib opposite to where the photo is taken. This is the grip with attached steel(?) threads. The barrel is removed so I could take the photo. 

 

 

Thank you for your help. 

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1 hour ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

All pens but Pen 10 work. Pen 10 is different, which is something to try to understand later.

 

large.2082560389_ObviousproblemwithPlatinumpocketpenno_10.jpg.893b9555accc270a31259d6ed6c09f43.jpg

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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