More recommendations please, but only pens with MEDIUM nibs

[A Smug Dill]

20 minutes ago, YFS said:

So if Kaigelu 316's M nib is too broad for you, switch it out to a 699 F nib and you are good to go.

 

These days, you can easily get replacement Kaigelu-branded steel nibs in different width grades, and even some with ‘long knife’ or Togi-styled grinds.

 

I have six of the Togi-styled Kaigelu nibs. Not cheap, but so far seems to be fun and quite versatile, and writes at least as fine (at the ‘right’ incident angle) as the Kaigelu 35mm EF nibs factory-fitted on my new Kaigelu model 316/316A/356 pens.

[Karmachanic]

3 hours ago, YFS said:

No section changes, no Bock Housing/feed hassle, just a simple $4 nib switch.

 

Valuable information.  Thank you.  Bock housing is still useful for those who like the Bock Ti nibs.

[OldTravelingShoe]

5 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

These days, you can easily get replacement Kaigelu-branded steel nibs in different width grades, and even some with ‘long knife’ or Togi-styled grinds.

Between the nibs of (1) Wing Sung EF/F/M, (2) Kaigelu EF/F/Long Knife (also appears as NMF and is referred to as Togi), and (3) PenBBS 353s RM/Calligraphy, the myth of Chinese pens having only one size seems to me is busted. (I'm putting them together because, relatively to the cost of a full set of nibs, the pen is not much more expensive and often even cheaper.) 

 

Not sure I'd personally go for the gold nibs sourced there, but they also exist and seem to be diversifying. PenBBS seems to be leading here. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by OldTravelingShoe
Edited for clarity.

[A Smug Dill]

17 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

(2) Kaigelu EF/F/Long Knife (also appears as NMF and is referred to as Togi),

 

Many Kaigelu pens can be ordered with factory-fitted 35mm Medium nibs as well.

 

PenBBS has, at the least, steel SEF, REF, RM, RF, SF, and Calligraphy steel nibs in 35mm size.

 

Source: AliExpress

 

(All the round-tipped ones are available on AliExpress right now, even if the PenBBS Official Store on Etsy seems to be out of stock of the RM at the moment.)

 

17 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

the myth of Chinese pens having only one size seems to me is busted.

 

The Majohn (né Moonman) T5, as mentioned before, can be ordered with a steel, 35mm-sized EF, F, or M nib.

 

HongDian sells the model A3 with a (small, 26mm-sized) steel 0.7mm nib as an option. It offers a straight-tipped (and larger, 35mm-sized) steel 0.7mm nib for the model 1831.

 

Picasso (Pimio 916):

Source: AliExpress

 

Jinhao:

Source: AliExpress

 

Duke:

Source: AliExpress

 

I'm not entirely sure about Hero and Lingmo.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by A Smug Dill
edited the PenBBS nib options to match the order in the image

[OldTravelingShoe]

This is an excellent post, @A Smug Dill. It demonstrates beyond doubt that not only some of the pen lines from China support some diverse nib sizes, but actually many (all?) the main makers have at least one line and sometimes even several with wide diversity of nib sizes.

 

I learned plenty. For example, I have never seen an official picture of the sizes and engravings available on PenBBS nibs. (I've been buying them on Beini's Etsy store, and the AliExpress app never showed and still does not show the photo you cite. But the regular webpage does. Strange.) 

 

Thanks for this, saving for later reference. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by OldTravelingShoe
Edited for clarity.

[OldTravelingShoe]

Speaking of PenBBS, do we actually know the writing characteristics of the full Calligraphy line of nibs? I remember there were about 10 steel nibs of various shapes, but have not seen a good overview or review. (I could review about 5 of the steel nibs, but not this month because I am fully committed already. But maybe I just missed someone else's reviews or someone else has all the nibs.) 

 

I also remember the gold line had barely started, and they're too expensive for me to acquire only to do a review. So, does someone else have them? Or do we on FPN, collectively, have them? (I have none and will not buy one soon, because at the current price -- Etsy tells me >120€/nib, excluding shipping -- I'm still wary.) 

[A Smug Dill]

16 hours ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Speaking of PenBBS, do we actually know the writing characteristics of the full Calligraphy line of nibs?

 

I'm afraid I won't be getting one at Beini's asking price, plus US$6 postage from China for such a small item, to satisfy my curiosity. I grumbled at how much it cost me per nib on average to get the Kaigelu Togi-style nibs (and I already had to get them two-at-a-time, plus stack different discount offers, to lower the effective price), but a PenBBS steel calligraphy nib would cost me more than threefold that all up, notwithstanding that it's a complete nib unit fitted with O-rings and housed in a pretty acrylic charm that all add to the cost of supply. Maybe if it starts turning up on AliExpress, and I get to wrangle free shipping and/or apply other discounts on the deal.

 

In the meantime, I'm so impressed with the first Kaigelu Togi-style nib I tried, I ended up ordering four more, so now I have six all up. (We have more Kaigelu pens than that number.)

 

[OldTravelingShoe]

11 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

I'm so impressed with the first Kaigelu Togi-style nib I tried, I ended up ordering four more, so now I have six all up

The AliExpress sales and 10-day shipping promos are... today?! Ok, all seems lined up. Thanks, @A Smug Dill! 

[sansenri]

On 1/10/2022 at 8:06 PM, Karmachanic said:

 

Dunno if it's changed, but the Kaigelu 316 I had was fitted with, I believe, a 5.5 nib, which neccesitated the linked operation to take the Bock housing/feed, in order to fit a #6 nib 😀

Kaigelu 316, in it's first version, has a proprietary collar that has no threading, it's just glued into the section. In some fortunate cases if you just pull, the whole thing comes out (in other cases the glue is more effective and you need to dip the section in hot water to get it out...) and by change a Bock nib with feed and housing just pops in sufficiently tight, by friction.

I'm not sure what the situation is with the new version of the 316.

I have done the nib swap in one of my early 316s and it works a treat with a Bock nib.

(might not be of much use to the OP as the old 316s are difficult to trace now)

[sansenri]

One additional comment on Baoer pens, I own a few of them and they have always surprised me for the quality of their nibs (if you are not wanting fine or very fine nibs).

Their nibs are usually very smooth, wet, medium line, and in my limited experience not as rigid as other Chinese nibs I have tried. None of mine needed any adjustment.

 

[Emver]

Hi Sansenri, and thank you for your contributions. 

 

I'm intrigued by your wanting to change your Kaigelu 316 nib for a Bock when I find the Kaigelu one writes so smoothly.  Have I just been lucky or is the Bock nib significantly better, and if so in what way is it better?  I'll be interested to see whether the new 316s I've ordered will be as good as my first one.

 

Also could you tell me which Baoer pens you like? The only one I've tried was a Parker 51 lookalike which didn't really impress me, but I'm happy to try some more.

[Karmachanic]

38 minutes ago, Emver said:

is the Bock nib significantly better,

 

Not Sensenri here.  Personally, yes.  Bock titanium #6 nibs are softer and wetter. Which in my book makes them more better.  That's right; more better.  Way more. 😁

[Emver]

By "softer" do you mean more flexible and therefore producing more line width variation?  I can appreciate that if that's what you're looking for.

But "wetter"?  I also like a generous ink flow, but my 316 is as wet as it could be.  Any wetter would cause a flood!

But as I said earlier, perhaps I was just lucky to get a really good one first time.

[mke]

On 1/12/2022 at 12:21 AM, Emver said:

a 0.5mm nib

That is an M nib in most Asian countries; F would be 0.4 mm, EF 0.3 mm, XXF 0.2 mm and XXXF 0.1 mm. 

Above this ? What for?

 

--

Wanna see photos of necessary and unnecessary pens?

 

[Emver]

Refreshingly provocative mke, and i'll rise to the bate by stating that Medium nibs begin at 0.7mm.  Anything finer is only suitable for spiders or people with microscopes or extreme myopia.

 

I quite like your concept of necessary and unnecessary pens, but I don't understand why your photo of necessary pens has omitted the four essential pens in any collection, namely the Parker 51, the Parker Duofold, the Montblanc 146 and the Jinhao 100.

[mke]

3 hours ago, Emver said:

omitted the four essential pens in any collection, namely the Parker 51, the Parker Duofold, the Montblanc 146 and the Jinhao 100

Bad things first: I don't have a Jinhao 100.

 

"Omitted." Did I?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJQSK8WDord/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0siOm0DuZy/

I don't have a 146 but two 149. I was thinking about getting one - the JFK in burgundy or this one:

If I can sell all my Parker pens, then I might be able to buy one.

 

3 hours ago, Emver said:

Medium nibs begin at 0.7mm

Not in Asia. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNMjG0bjs_i/

[Karmachanic]

4 hours ago, Emver said:

Medium nibs begin at 0.7mm.

 

In your world perhaps.  Have a look at this chart .  One lonely 0.7

[A Smug Dill]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:33 AM, Emver said:

More recommendations please, but only pens with MEDIUM nibs

 

I've enjoyed trying a variety of Chinese pens over the past couple of years, my favourites so far being the Jinhao 100 and Kaigelu 316,  with the Jinhao X450 and Moonman M600S being not far behind.

 

Can anybody suggest any more, bearing in mind that my essential requirements are a medium nib, a nice wet ink flow, and a pen which will write first time after I leave it capped for two weeks?

4 hours ago, Emver said:

Refreshingly provocative mke, and i'll rise to the bate by stating that Medium nibs begin at 0.7mm. 

 

I don't think anyone is baiting you. You asked for suggestions of Chinese pens, so it goes without saying that the Chinese manufacturers' (individual or collective) ‘definition’ of Medium nibs is authoritative in the context, given there is no ratified industry/technical standard that has been adopted by or imposed upon the Chinese fountain pen industry, with or without also being binding on other pen manufacturers internationally including those domiciled in Japan, Germany and Italy.

 

5 hours ago, Emver said:

Anything finer is only suitable for spiders or people with microscopes or extreme myopia.

If PenBBS grades 0.5mm~0.7mm nibs as M nibs (see above), Jinhao grades 0.7mm nibs as M nibs (see above), and Majohn/Moonman grades 0.6mm nibs as M nibs:

 

Source: 末匠文具工廠店 (Moonman Stationery Factory Store) on Taobao

 

then in each case fellow hobbyists, as your peers and equals in the forum, will suggest to you pen models that come fitted with M nibs (by default, or as an option), and leave you to understand what the respective manufacturer means and then recalibrate your expectations. Due respect would have been given to both the Chinese pen manufacturer and you, since you asked for pens with Medium nibs, unless you want to claim that “M nibs” is not logically and semantically identical to “Medium nibs”.

 

You don't get to (re)define the terminology, and pretend your definition or interpretation trumps that of the Chinese pen manufacturer, then demand others adopt it in discussion when you ask a question like that. At the end of the day, your view is non-authoritative but also in the minority, if others who reply don't agree with you.

[mke]

2 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

Have a look at this chart

That is an interesting chart, thank you!

[OldTravelingShoe]

3 hours ago, mke said:

That is an interesting chart, thank you!

I second @mke in thanking @Karmachanic for the link to the Nibs.com table of "Nib Tipping Sizes"!

 

4 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

the Chinese manufacturers' (individual or collective) ‘definition’ of Medium nibs is authoritative in the context, given there is no ratified industry/technical standard

Good point, @A Smug Dill. To all: I'm new enough to this that I don't know how nib sizes actually get labeled. So, please allow me to ask the following questions, admittedly naive but hopefully without starting a polemic:

1. Is there an international standard for nib sizes? If not,
2. Are there more local standards, e.g., North American or European, or even, say US or Japanese? (I thought JIS was a regulator for the Japanese industry, for the 1960s through 1980s; at least I'm looking for their logo when I try to buy Japanese vintage pens.)
3. If the labels are per manufacturer as the Nibs.com table suggests, e.g., Pilot's labels similar but not always the same as Sailor's, are these labels at least consisted over the decades?
4. If each manufacturer has its own system of labels and the system changed over time, is there another authoritative source for all the sizes over time, at least for some of these manufacturers? (In plain English, Nibs.com would be an authoritative source, probably with data from Jul 2018. Are there others, or does a version of Nibs.com chart prior to 2018 also exist?)

Thank you all for the discussion.