MONTBLANC as STATUS SYMBOL.... a turnoff for you?

[maclink]

3 hours ago, fpupulin said:

When you are lucky enough to know exactly what you want,

That's such an important start.  Not many are lucky enough to know exactly what they want....  I've been thinking that I knew exactly what I wanted for a while.  Now, I'm more careful with any assumption along that line regarding pens.

 

My latest acquisition from MB is an Egyptomania with a B nib.  It's a beautifully constructed pen with fabulous ergonomics and I would argue, among the best, if not the best nib that I have.  The other nibs in my possession that are similarly lovely to write with are all custom grinds and tuned by a nibmeister.  This pen is simply not only about 'bling'.  It is technically, a seriously well made writing instrument.   I focus on this rather than the fact that many purchase MB pens as a status symbol or that MB goes along with this and markets to this population of users, established or potential.  

[eaudom]

I have wonderful pens from MB, Pelikan, Waterman, Sheaffer, Parker and more.  The two that are usually inked are a 149 double broad stub and a 146 fine.  Retired, in covid era I stay home a lot.  My wife really doesn’t care what I write with.  They are just beautiful pens that are comfortable, write well , springy, buttery smooth, don’t leak, and hold a lot of ink,  

[invisuu]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:21 AM, LuckyKate said:

Montblanc stores make my hair stand on end and actually make me physically ill. But that doesn't stop me from loving their pens, especially the Heritage 1912 line. I have three Montblancs and use them constantly: a 146, a Coral Heritage, and a little Tribute pen. I would probably buy another Heritage if one I like appeared, not another of the skinny ones, but one like the 1912 (I sold the one I had as it was very heavy. Of course since I have developed a fondness for heavy pens and wish I had it back). But it's also true that the brand itself gives me the creeps. I just can't resist the pens!

 

I also don't like their stores. At least the one that is local, the airport ones seemed more relaxed. If I have to dress up so the security checks me before opening the door, no thanks, I'll pass. I just order online. 

[Wael El-Dasher]

On 12/12/2021 at 11:36 AM, invisuu said:

I also don't like their stores. At least the one that is local, the airport ones seemed more relaxed. If I have to dress up so the security checks me before opening the door, no thanks, I'll pass. I just order online. 

I don't know @invisuu, I visit MB in cargo shorts, birkenstocks and a Hawaiian shirt typically. Heck, I was dressed like that this weekend when I went to Rolex/Tudor and bought my wife a watch for her birthday. 

[sansenri]

On 12/3/2021 at 11:02 AM, Uncial said:

It is a strange thing. I've used MB's for over 25 years in the wild and not once has anyone ever commented. There was one time when I loaned a pen to someone to write something and she said, 'Oh, I like this. What is it?'

 

I have never - and I mean never - seen anyone here in business with a MB; either in use or clipped in a pocket. Never seen a 'yuppie' with one. Not ever. Here Cross is solely and relentlessly marketed to the business community (and to 'yuppies' and the wealthy as a luxury status pen) in which Cross ballpoints are ubiquitous, but hand on heart I can say in all honesty that I have yet to see a city slicker (or a rural slicker) with anything other than a Cross ballpoint.

 

Now, let the list of 'Oh but I've seen...' ensue.....

 

Must be dependent on regions...

Here (northern Italy) almost everyone has forgotten what a Cross is...

Not that there are a huge number of Montblancs around, however most people can recognize the white snow flake...

and a few 146/149s do crop up in the business environment, the platinum finish Le Grand 146 is considered particularly cool.

[sansenri]

The OP however does have a point, at least with me.

In the capital of Fashion (Milano...) Montblanc is considered a status symbol, I don't think there is any doubt about that, and Montblanc is not only pens.

I probably was not lucky enough to come across a Montblanc pen early enough, so my attention has been diverted on many other pens, and admittedly I'm curious and will not settle with one brand only (quite the opposite).

My first Montblanc came quite late in my FP experience, a modern 146, and did not really strike me as anything special. For quite some time I have continued to give preference to other brands, like Pelikan, Aurora, and a number of other brands, often Italian (Stipula, Delta, Omas, Montegrappa, etc.). My attention was caught by the wonderful nib on a 342G some time later. The nib on a second 146 from the 80s has convinced me my first 146 was not a reference. That said, while in my business environment my fountain pens are usually looked at as just something odd, my 146 always does get a different look, which I cannot accurately define, but has to do with recognition of the brand. This does slightly put me off.

Other MBs may come, but honestly I'm not on an active quest, given also the fact that prices are driven up by notoriety of the brand, and that I am too often attracted by other opportunities and possibility to explore other makers, models, filling systems, nibs, materials, etc.

[Intensity]

This is a pretty interesting discussion.  I personally knew nothing about Montblanc until I actually got "into fountain pens" as an art hobby, to improve my handwriting, practice some calligraphy, and have some fun with Kuretake water brushes when used alongside a fountain pen on good paper (such as my daily Hobonichi Cousin entries).

 

I feel like there's a dichotomy between people in the very-very niche fountain pen "hobby" and everyone else.  Those in the hobby are hyper-aware of Montblanc and have a range of opinions about the brand and their pens, some quite polarizing.  The brand definitely has Notoriety in the hobby.  Those outside--I would bet most have no idea Montblanc fountain pens even exist or if they do, why they should care.  They might have seen a Montblanc boutique in their city, but they probably thought there might be some standard stationery there, such as ballpoints, wallets.  Not fountain pens.  "No one" uses fountain pens anymore, in the US, anyway.  (Of course some still do, but the vast majority abandoned them decades ago).

 

So with that said, I have 3 Montblanc pens: a 252, which is tiny and I think will draw zero attention in public nor look like any kind of a status symbol, even though it has the snow cap.  A 146, which is a larger pen than your average ballpoint and has an obvious shiny nib, which might attract some attention.  If I post the cap (which I don't usually), I bet most people will not understand it has a Montblanc logo on it, nor care--I bet they will be more curious about why I am taking notes with a fountain pen ("calligraphy pen").  Montblanc 149--this one is huge, objectively.  It WILL draw wanted and unwanted attention, there's no way around it.  Because of the size of the pen and the nib, not because of the brand.  And these are all "basic" black pens with gold hardware.  I have other, non-Montblanc pens that are much more eye-catching, some silly Sailor limited editions, some look a lot more expensive, like a larger Montegrappa in sterling silver.  If I want to avoid drawing attention, I use Pilot VP Decimos or Parker 51s--anything with tiny hooded nibs and medium to small size bodies.

 

On the other hand I feel pretty out of touch with what The Uninitiated think about fountain pens anymore.  For instance when I was starting out, I thought a sparkly black Jinhao 750 looked super fancy and could not understand why anyone would pay more than $1 for a fountain pen.  Maybe my VP Decimos look more desirable and high-end than the dated, somber "calligraphy" basic black Montblanc pens?

 

Given that, any kind of an opinion someone in the fountain pen hobby might have about my pens is limited to my writing desk, when I consider taking some photographs of my pens and sharing them on-line.  The chances of me meeting another fountain pen user--especially one who's invested more than just up to a Lamy Safari--are miniscule to nonexistent.  So it's pointless to worry what others will think about me picking a specific brand for my writing instruments.  Experiences will vary based on income level and occupation--for instance there might be a higher percent of brand recognition in high end business circles, because there's generally higher emphasis on looking like you are wearing and using expensive items from the Right Brands, and those are limited in number.  At that point you can't just hate Montblanc, you'd have to also hate all the other fancy brands like Gucci, Tom Ford, etc.

[stoen]

It is kind of turn-off for me.

Long ago I purchased my 149 on discount as high school kid, because it was fun. Later I saw some intellectuals I admired also having used them, so I realized it was a more serious writing tool than I’d presumed.

When the Reagan Administration started using them for publicly signing all sort of official documents, its price jumped, and I started developing mixed feelings toward it.

Some time ago I started developing interest for smaller pens with telescopic piston mechanisms. I purchased a 142, but returned it since it was way too wet for my taste.

Then I got a 144 from 1950, which is a great writer.

 

 

[invisuu]

11 hours ago, Wael El-Dasher said:

I don't know @invisuu, I visit MB in cargo shorts, birkenstocks and a Hawaiian shirt typically. Heck, I was dressed like that this weekend when I went to Rolex/Tudor and bought my wife a watch for her birthday. 

Like I said, it depends. I also had a pleasant experience when I was in Tokyo airport's (I think Narita airport, if memory serves) boutique, but my local one is not pleasant at all and I avoid it. That's okay, plenty of great online retailers out there.

[como]

As to OP’s question, I can imagine that some people think Montblanc is a status symbol. It surely is a luxury brand by the virtue of its offerings and marketing strategies. Personally I don’t really think about it. I buy what I like and what I can afford, Montblanc or not. Also that word “status” just sounds kind of silly, not sure if I can ever imagine having anything to do with it by itself.

[Kalessin]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:59 PM, Intensity said:

 The chances of me meeting another fountain pen user--especially one who's invested more than just up to a Lamy Safari--are miniscule to nonexistent. 

 

If you're in Massachusetts (going by the flag on your user info), especially in the Boston area or Amherst/Northampton area, the chances of meeting another fountain pen user is actually pretty good.

 

Science, medicine, law and academics all seem to attract more fountain pen people, and Massachusetts has a very high percentage of these occupations.  We have enough demand that we have Bromfield Pen Shop (now owned by Appelboom) and a Montblanc boutique in Boston (though the boutique is in the Copley Square Mall, kind of hidden away).  Harvard Square has Bob Slate stationer, with pens and paper supplies.  My own town, Lexington, has a stationer that has a few pens and inks, and that is becoming quite unsual. 

 

We also have the annual Boston Pen Show (usually held in Somerville these days), and an annual Pelikan Hub (when they start meeting again).

 

[kazoolaw]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:24 PM, Wael El-Dasher said:

I don't know @invisuu, I visit MB in cargo shorts, birkenstocks and a Hawaiian shirt typically. Heck, I was dressed like that this weekend when I went to Rolex/Tudor and bought my wife a watch for her birthday. 

 

Like much in life, it depends.  I've been treated royally in ratty jeans in Charleston, and invited to try out all the new pens.  I've been ignored dressed business casual when I was the only person in the shop.  I been asked to show that a 256 was a "real" MB when I was just there to buy some ink. (My default "I don't want to spend big bucks so I'll buy a little.")  

 

I've also been treated like a barbarian at Macdonald's:  it's just people.

[Pointyscratchy]

Really interesting comments that get to the heart of what ww do- and why.

p

I bought a high end full suspension canondale mountain bike in the nineties, it had just won a world design completion, was bright yellow, and I in my forties attracted gangs of fourteen year olds also on bikes asking me questions like a rock star.Mountain bikes weren't common then.

Slightly embarrasing and unforeseen.My rational was that I wanted to own something perfect, I couldn't afford a porch or a rolls Royce .

 

Then came another part.People my age accusing me of trying to act young and the accusation of all the gear and no idea because I didn't have a lot of skill either. My intentions were innocent but people drew negative inferences.

 

Some people have expensive golf clubs but can't play well.Should only handsome or attractive people have nice clothes?Or should we all try to make the best of ourselves, or what we perceive as the best of ourselves?

 

In the case of fountain pens what harm are we doing?In my case I am a published writer- I do have all the gear and some idea- so when I do get a comment my mind is okay with it without needing to win any arguments.

 

It's probably something everyone has to deal with.Even if you have a baby having all the top kit can be a problem for others- and lead to guilt etc self questions.Park in a disabled bay and people have an opinion.I'm a person too and I think mean thoughts, I expect we have to live with it.

 

[arcfide]

Sometimes, the answer is, sure, it's a status symbol, but because of that status symbol, I get a chance to enjoy something in a way that I might not otherwise enjoy it, and maybe that's worth the money to me:

 

 

I think there can be a false humility in only purchasing things on the basis of pragmatism and not also on just appreciate the culturally contextualized intangible joys that the things bring, as long as we aren't deluding ourselves.

 

As an example, I might be perfectly happy to pick up a Tesla car if it somehow was a reasonable fit for me simply to experience and play with a cultural icon, even if that intangibility didn't make the care any better than any other car on practical merits. 

[Jordan N]

If you didn't steal a pen or money to buy it – I don't see why anybody should have a problem with that. It's your choice. You can drive Toyota Corolla, but I don't think anybody should judge you if you drive, e.g.  BMW. Your money – your choice. Is Montblanc a luxurious brand? Yes, it is. So what?  

 

How often do people see your pen? I haven't seen anybody walking on the street or sitting in the boardroom, showing a fountain pen, and pointing a white star to other people, so they will notice it's Montblanc. In North America, any kind of fountain pen in a boardroom will bring some attention as most people don't see them so often. 

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, Jordan N said:

If you didn't steal a pen or money to buy it – I don't see why anybody should have a problem with that.

 

My wife doesn't like the clutter my pens manifest. (That's not to say she doesn't like fountain pens. She has her own fleet of I-lost-count-of-how-many those I've either bought specifically for her, or yielded to her from my collection for one reason or another. But she's tidier than I am.) It wouldn't matter to her whether it's a lowly Platinum Preppy or a showy Montblanc; it's just another pen where she can see it and where it shouldn't be.

 

[bunnspecial]

8 hours ago, arcfide said:

Sometimes, the answer is, sure, it's a status symbol, but because of that status symbol, I get a chance to enjoy something in a way that I might not otherwise enjoy it, and maybe that's worth the money to me:

 

I think there can be a false humility in only purchasing things on the basis of pragmatism and not also on just appreciate the culturally contextualized intangible joys that the things bring, as long as we aren't deluding ourselves.

 

As an example, I might be perfectly happy to pick up a Tesla car if it somehow was a reasonable fit for me simply to experience and play with a cultural icon, even if that intangibility didn't make the care any better than any other car on practical merits. 

I watched your linked video preparing to hate it/disagree with everything said in it, but found that I actually liked it and couldn't argue with it. I'd never really thought about all the "little" details that go into the brand, and enjoyed seeing that video break them down.

 

Admittedly I've never bought a new MB at an in-person retail store, as I don't have near me and the few ADs I've been in usually have pens as an afterthought and never had anything in stock that would have caught my interest.

 

Of course his video does discuss buying a roller ball, and as nice as MB rollerballs are fundamentally you can get a similar writing experience if you stuck an MB refill in a custom pen body. Even modern MB FPs still have a lot of character and I don't find the experience writing with them the same as other modern high end German or Japanese(not saying better or worse, just not the same) 

 

He did nail the story, though. Not only does MB have their own story to play, but the revolving door of LEs all come with their own back story. Buy a WE/GC/PoA etc and aside from the details that go into the pen you also quite literally get the person's life story in the warranty book that comes with the pen...

[Jordan N]

I like the video, but it's not about MB. MB is used just as an example of positioning a product or service. He could make the same story about the watches. A $20 Timex and a $20,000 Rolex offer the same functionality. At the very end, you can buy a gray Bruno Cucinelli t-shirt – or 20 packages (80 grey t-shirts) at Costco. I'm not sure if most people will recognize the difference. I don't feel the difference. 

 

In the video, they didn't talk about fountain pens. That's good, as some people feel the difference: pen, nib, ink, paper. But with a rollerball, most people won't feel it. There is nothing special in MB rollerball refills. However, an MB rollerball may bring them some kind of inner satisfaction. They don't need to show that rollerball to anybody, they may feel well when they use it at home. 

[SpecTP]

Interesting, I don't think even in 2018 a MB Solitaire would sell for under $1000. The person in the video represented the cost as $700.

[arcfide]

36 minutes ago, SpecTP said:

Interesting, I don't think even in 2018 a MB Solitaire would sell for under $1000. The person in the video represented the cost as $700.

 

It is an older video.