How to get started with indian eye dropper pens as a newbie?

[Spatil]

Hello everyone, recently I bought my first Indian ED, wality/airmail 69 eb with M stock nib. I originally wanted to swap the stock nib with kanwrite 35 M nib which I already had so I purchased a Sheaffer NN equivalent feed (shown in picture) along with the pen. Unfortunately nib isn't going deep enough if I take the nib and feed together and insert it in grip section directly with either of the original or Sheaffer feed even after trying. I know of a video where you scrap the stock feed to be able to fit kanwrite 35 nib but, I don't know if it is only me or not, I find Sheaffer feed a little thinner than stock feed, so making stock feed thinner may not work which makes me hesitate to take the risk. From what I know indian ed require some tuning to work properly. 

So, I want to know

1) How to make stock configuration better, anything a newbie could do to nib and feed. Sometimes I feel nib is dragging on paper otherwise it feels smoother and ink flow is less than preferance.

OR

2) something I could do to push the kanwrite 35 nib deeper without breaking stuff

(additional info if it is relevant- the cross section of inner hollow of grip section is not circular but an intermediate of triangle and circle i,e. triangle equivalent of squircle and one of the side gives best fit of nib and feed, other side give a tilt to nib or feed giving misalignment after pushing the stock nib and feed together.)

 

If someone could guide me it would be appreciated and thanks in advance.

[Aravind_A_2310]

I have 2 suggestions:

1. Kanwrite does make a No.8 nib in EF ,F, M sizes which are identical in size to the stock airmail nibs. Have you tried those? the experience is identical to using their No.35 nibs.

 

2. Try to use the NN feed with the No.8 nib, or is there any issues using the NN feed with a No.8 nib?

 

I have a 69T and I scraped the feed to fit a No.35 nib of which I have written an article in FPN. I've heard of the NN feed but I haven't tried it for myself. But I'd recommend fitting a KW No.8 along with the NN feed for your specific case

[hari317]

Section hollow, we will call it the section bore, it takes a "set" ie the bore deforms and conforms to the nib feed shape. This is why you are seeing the peculiar shape.

 

Wality uses a Indian no 8 nib, same is sold by Kanwrite as No 8 in M, you fit that nib. Personally I don't scrape the feeder to make it thineer, this introduces air gaps which will cause more problems. 

 

Check that your equivalent feeder has 6.35mm diameter.

 

 

 

 

[Spatil]

6 hours ago, hari317 said:

Check that your equivalent feeder has 6.35mm diameter.

I compared the circumference of the feed cross section. Theoretical circumference of 6.35mm dia feed is approximately 19.95mm and the circumference of feed I have measured with a fine thread is 20.05mm. The error is 0.5% which is quite low. So it is 6.35 dia feed unless..... feeds with dia 6.36, 6.37 or 6.38mm exits😝.

Anyway. If I remember you started a thread of wality model where you posted a picture with a box full of Sheaffer ebonite feed. In the picture I posted it may not look clear but the feed I have looks similar to the one in your picture. And it is what the shop keeper gave me for use with kanwrite 35 nib when I asked for Sheaffer NNS feed saying that it's what many people use.

[Spatil]

7 hours ago, hari317 said:

Wality uses a Indian no 8 nib, same is sold by Kanwrite as No 8 in M, you fit that nib.

 

7 hours ago, Aravind_2310 said:

Kanwrite does make a No.8 nib in EF ,F, M sizes which are identical in size to the stock airmail nibs.

Yes, I think it's better to purchase a no. 8 nib afterall.

[Spatil]

7 hours ago, Aravind_2310 said:

Try to use the NN feed with the No.8 nib, or is there any issues using the NN feed with a No.8 nib?

If you are asking about the NN feed I bought and the stock no.8 nib, then yes I tried fitting them together and they did get inserted but it was not writing. Maybe heat setting is required to make the combination write.

[Spatil]

9 hours ago, Spatil said:

anything a newbie could do to nib and feed.

Meanwhile something I can do to the nib? I read that tuning is required before many of these stock nib write wonderfully. I recall seeing videos where the person uses something "mesh" and runs the nib in figure of 8 to tune it to the preferance. Since the video uploaders where from other countries I am not sure if I can get same materials or its alternative.

[Aravind_A_2310]

6 hours ago, Spatil said:

If you are asking about the NN feed I bought and the stock no.8 nib, then yes I tried fitting them together and they did get inserted but it was not writing. Maybe heat setting is required to make the combination write.

If the NN feed is ebonite, then heat setting might be an option. If you bought the moulded plastic one, I'd not recommend doing it. I'd rather just buy a Kanwrite No.8 and use it with the stock feed. Or buy a No.8 feed directly from KW. It costs like 30-40 rs and is sufficiently finned to prevent burping to some extent. You can deepen the fins using a razorblade but the feed by itself is more than enough.

 

Here are some photos of my airmail with the above mentioned setup. A no.8 nib and a No.8 feed both directly from kanwrite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aravind_A_2310]

6 hours ago, Spatil said:

Meanwhile something I can do to the nib? I read that tuning is required before many of these stock nib write wonderfully. I recall seeing videos where the person uses something "mesh" and runs the nib in figure of 8 to tune it to the preferance. Since the video uploaders where from other countries I am not sure if I can get same materials or its alternative.

 

The "mesh" you're referring to is micromesh. It's just another way of representing the grits of sandpaper. The company that makes it grades it differently from normal sandpaper. But those are kind of expensive for what you're getting.

 

Unless you're deep into the hobby, I wouldn't recommend it. Instead I've seen Mr. Yusuf Mansoor say that he uses a 2500 grit sandpaper and finishes it with 7000 grit sandpaper.

 

Keep in mind that polishing the nib using mesh or sandpaper should be the last resort. As you can easily grind away the tipping(after destroying a Parker vector nib and a wality nib, I now know.). First thing to check is the tine alignment, then you can resort to polishing.

[hari317]

12 hours ago, Spatil said:

I have measured with a fine thread is 20.05mm

in all possibility you have the correct feed. I asked since you said equivalent to the NN feed, you did not sound sure you indeed had a NN feed. BTW 20.05mm which instrument did you use to measure this? 

[hari317]

12 hours ago, Spatil said:

I tried fitting them together and they did get inserted but it was not writing

did you try priming the feed? instructions are here:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/287765-filling-instructions-for-indian-eye-dropper-filled-pens/?do=findComment&comment=3946066

 

[Spatil]

12 hours ago, Aravind_2310 said:

As you can easily grind away the tipping(after destroying a Parker vector nib and a wality nib, I now know.)

Then I would refrain from it. And I don't know if it's me not, since the two days I first inked up this pen it's flow has increased a little and haven't noticed the nib dragging feel (can paper act as polishing agent, need clarification). Maybe it's the breakout period I heard?

[Spatil]

6 hours ago, hari317 said:

BTW 20.05mm which instrument did you use to measure this? 

Oh my...I just noticed it was a silly mistake in note down 😰. Actually it's 20.5 mm ( my scale has least count of 0.5mm for the first two centimetres). Though the error is still in 2.75%. Any chance feed between dia 6.35mm- 6.52mm exists?

[Spatil]

7 hours ago, hari317 said:

did you try priming the feed? instructions are here:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/287765-filling-instructions-for-indian-eye-dropper-filled-pens/?do=findComment&comment=3946066

 

I tried that just now and the pen is writing, just that the pen is writing dry.

[Spatil]

1 minute ago, Spatil said:

I tried that just now and the pen is writing just the pen is writing dry.

And also leaky at grip-body joint 😅. Where can one get silicone grease and how much does it cost?

[Spatil]

Is the depth of feed enough or should I push it further?

Apologies for image quality. My phone camera refuses to focus on the nib.

[hari317]

45 minutes ago, Spatil said:

Oh my...I just noticed it was a silly mistake in note down 😰. Actually it's 20.5 mm ( my scale has least count of 0.5mm for the first two centimetres). Though the error is still in 2.75%. Any chance feed between dia 6.35mm- 6.52mm exists?

Yes. Feeds are proprietary and 6.5 is a distinct possibility which explains your troubles. 

[hari317]

14 minutes ago, Spatil said:

Is the depth of feed enough or should I push it further?

Apologies for image quality. My phone camera refuses to focus on the nib.

This is okayish. Make sure nib exposed length is less than the inner cap depth. Determine inner cap depth as described here : 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355762-airmailwality-69-family/?do=findComment&comment=4442761

 

[hari317]

28 minutes ago, Spatil said:

Where can one get silicone grease and how much does it cost?

I have answered this in the filling instructions thread. Of course you can throw money at amazon and they will deliver. 

[Spatil]

1 hour ago, hari317 said:

This is okayish. Make sure nib exposed length is less than the inner cap depth. Determine inner cap depth as described here : 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355762-airmailwality-69-family/?do=findComment&comment=4442761

 

1 hour ago, hari317 said:

I have answered this in the filling instructions thread. Of course you can throw money at amazon and they will deliver. 

Thanks.