Should I get a JoWo medium or a broad nib?

[bunnspecial]

1 hour ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Noobies chase 'smoothest possible' at all costs, in they don't know there is more than butter smooth.

That feeling the paper can be a plus and not the negative of ball point use.

It is my feeling that butter smooth is a relatively modern desire, that in the old days the nibs having tear drop or stub tipping in '50-60's era gave good and smooth, the level under butter smooth, that allowed a feel of the paper.

 

Can we please quit classifying a difference in preference for nib feel as something "noobies want" if it doesn't like up with your person OPINION about how a nib should behave?

 

Yes, my tastes in nibs have evolved in 10 years, but I also have an immense variety of different nibs with different characteristics including modern obliques that give very nice line variation((and I don't know why blanket statements to the contrary are made).

[Bo Bo Olson]

You've been here @ as long as I have.

I may have read a bit more than you have, in you have other interests than my couple.

 

Of course it's my personal opinion. As is everyone's.

I do find that many/most noobies wish a real wet smoother than hell nib. They have been told by someone somewhere that.

Noobies coming from plowing the south 40 without the mule of ball point use, I can understand that.

 

I didn't, in I was returning to fountain pens after 40 years in the ball point desert. Especially after my first butter smooth one. Modern pens bought new tend to be that way and I buy few.

 

It is quite possible you and other experienced folks have gone through your own wet and smooth phase and have you butter smooth nibs. (I don't have many-5-6 or so. But I have very few new pens) & new Pelikan 200's nibs are nice good and smooth ones....though I'll have to re-evaluate the new double ball 200's nibs.

 

IMO there is more to fountain pen use than a sopping wet vivid line and a butter smooth nib.

And many noobies want no more, in they don't know more.

 

There's a very old song about... Is that all there is?

 

Odd, every once in a while after some months of butter smooth, a fella will write, how do I get rid of 'butter smooth'.

I don't laugh, it's a legitimate question, in they have learned, better.

 

I do say what I say to tell for the first time some noobies, there is more than butter smooth, sopping wet line.

Don't waste all your money there.

 

I talk of 'good&smooth', the level just under butter smooth.......IMO what new nibs were back in the pens I remember before Color TV was in every house. Smooth, but not the slipping and sliding of butter smooth on slick papers.

We use to have good paper as normal too, before the Golden Age of Paper died unnoticed in the '80's.

 

(Many use PP paper so butter smooth does help there.)

 

Paper makes a difference......feeling paper is a plus when using good paper.....shading inks are fun.....and they are NOT sopping wet.

Is it wisdom? I don't know, but money is rationed, so the more one is aware of, the more options one has to throw it away wisely. 

 

Personally I've not run into what I call good line variation on modern post Vintage obliques (have 16 vintage '50-70 ones).

A small bit of line variation can be found on regular flex nibs, if one has a big enough 1 1/2" thick magnifying glass, compared to having good line variation of Obliques of the stubbed semi-flex era. I know I have 5 of them, might be 6 regular flex obliques. Even the three W.Germany extra springy W.Germany where such a disappointment.

Nails showed me absolutely no line variation in Oblique. I've been lucky and never got a semi-nail oblique.

 

I had two Lamy nail Obliques an OB on my Persona that is now a CI and an OM on a Lamy 27 that was sold..........no.....line variation!!! Period.

 

There are 15 degree grinds and somewhat rarer 30 degree grinds in the semi&maxi-semi-flex nibs I have.

It's a mix of maxi&semi. OBBB 30 degree grind just once; a maxi. In OBB, OB, OM & OF I have in both 15&30 degree grinds. The other 7 oblique vintage era nibs are just the more normal 15 degree.

 

Unless a nib is the real thing in stubbed semi-flex, it is my opinion if a right hander, that semi-vintage and modern obliques are not worth buying; you are not getting your money's worth. You have to Hunt for line variation, instead of having it.

 

There are folks that are left eye dominate that rotate their nib to see the top. (My wife is one.)

There are left handers that could get some benefit out of nail or semi-nail obliques in it allows pushing instead of pulling.

 

[bunnspecial]

13 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Personally I've not run into what I call good line variation on modern post Vintage obliques (have 16 vintage '50-70 ones).

A small bit of line variation can be found on regular flex nibs, if one has a big enough 1 1/2" thick magnifying glass, compared to having good line variation of Obliques of the stubbed semi-flex era. I know I have 5 of them, might be 6 regular flex obliques. Even the three W.Germany extra springy W.Germany where such a disappointment.

Nails showed me absolutely no line variation in Oblique. I've been lucky and never got a semi-nail oblique.

 

 

I took this photo not too long ago, and the top line is a 149 OB that's ~2 years old. MB has some stubbiness on B grinds, and it goes up to a full blown stub on BB. Obliques carry that same stubbiness. A 1960s B or OB 149 isn't ground terribly different than a modern one.

 

BTW, on smoothness, one of the things I like about modern MBs is that they consistently come out of the box less smooth than say modern Pelikans. They are smoother than Sailors(which are often held in high esteem for the amount of feedback in their nibs), but the feedback is there in MBs. If a Sailor is like writing with a sharp #2 pencil, a modern 146 or 149 is more like a dull #1 pencil. When I use wood pencils now I usually use Blackwing 602s, which aren't marked with a lead hardness but definitely are softer than a #2-a modern MB nib behaves a lot like a 602 when its less than freshly sharpened. That's my preferred level of smoothness on nibs.

 

In any case, note the line variation present on the 149 OB. If you'd like I can compare it to some vintage MB and Pelikan OB nibs, although this one showed the Parker Vacumatic which I had handy. Yes, the OB on my 144 and Pelikan 100 are slightly flexible, but line variation is also there on those without flexing. This particular Parker OBB is slightly flexible also, although I have another otherwise identical Vacumatic nib that is a nail.

 

The Sonnet here is the only oblique I have that doesn't really show line variation, but then fine obliques don't exactly show them anyway.

 

[mtcn77]

5 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

The Sonnet here is the only oblique I have that doesn't really show line variation,

Hi, this is exactly how I select my pens. I enjoy line consistency and dislike shading. I do like sheen, however. This has caused all sorts of problems with KWZ Warsaw Dreaming, but looks amazing.

[collectorofmanythings]

On 12/9/2021 at 11:09 AM, Bo Bo Olson said:

Noobies chase 'smoothest possible' at all costs, in they don't know there is more than butter smooth.

That feeling the paper can be a plus and not the negative of ball point use.

It is my feeling that butter smooth is a relatively modern desire, that in the old days the nibs having tear drop or stub tipping in '50-60's era gave good and smooth, the level under butter smooth, that allowed a feel of the paper.

 

I feel the Golden Age of fountain pens died @ 1970. (The Silver age could be said was in the '80-90's)

The Golden Age of paper died unnoticed  in the '80's.  I have the remments of a cheap paper pad bought when I was a ball point barbarian, that is more fountain pen friendly than even Clairefontaine  Triomphe or Rhoda; just not so smooth. Once even cheap papers were coated because some drier inks shaded ... and oddly lots of fountain pen users liked two toned shading inks....instead of as vivid and wet as possible of the noobie.

 

Today we live in The Golden Age of Inks..............so we need to have the better papers....for the great modern inks to dance on.........

Paper is often underestimated to it's importance.

 

Now that Sandy1's heirs removed all her ever so grand pictures of how the basic 5 widths of a pennib, can make the same ink look so different on 4-5 very good to better papers.

We can't say to to Ink Review and read any of our Ink Guru's ink reviews. ....

They can be read but with out the pictures............not worth much......BUT AS A LIST OF VERY FINE AFFORDABLE PAPERS EVERY ONE NEEDS.

There were some 8-10 papers over the last decade or so........I need to make that list................I need to buy some of those good to better papers.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

 

 

And I need Sandy1's list of good to better 'affordable' papers.

I've only got 30 or so papers, and feel so 'noobie'.

 

And I've developed a liking for an western M nib. That is smoother than an F and not real wide............take a look at that disrespected width.

Old post of mine.

"""

M is looked down on this com...in many come in on an M and go skinny or fat....but is a great nib size actually, good for shading inks, glitter inks and better than F on classic rough laid or Lenin papers.

Using MB Toffee a brown shading ink, back when I was newer.

 

F was light with dark trails.

M was 50-50 in shading , breaking my anti-M prejudice I picked up here on the com.

B was dark with light trails.""""

 

Of course you have to have 90g paper or better for two toned shading, except for Rhoda 80g...........I don't have that, I have Rhoda 90g.

Shading inks are for more advanced users.

Some 'noobies' avoid it, thinking they are having a mistake....

 

I do find mono-tone vivid ink....boring.

 

I am not a newbie chasing a butter smooth pen. I’m my years of using fountain pens since I was 11, I know that I personally do not want anything butter smooth. But, with this particular pen, a Conway Stewart Duro in Marine Blue, a limited edition of 25 pens, I would just like a wetter and smoother nib for it rather than the fine nib. I personally like Tomoe River and Clairefontaine, not huge on Rhodia, and sometimes I really like using a Leuccturm1917, or just some old fashioned laid paper. And I love shading! By the way, they make 90gsm Rhodia?? And yes, paper is definitely underrated. So you recommend the medium?

 

On 12/9/2021 at 5:30 AM, mtcn77 said:

Hi, I'm newly assigned.

Just want to comment on smoothness/wetness balance. A wet flow might saturate the paper achieving the opposite result, so be careful for too absorbent paper with wet flow.

I don’t use very absorbent papers, I often use Tomoe or Clairefontaine.

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:48 PM, mtcn77 said:

I enjoy line consistency and dislike shading.

If so by me, I'd have sold the inherited pen that started me on this addiction. It was a maxi-semi-flex, not that I knew that then. It just had that super wet line that most noobies adore.

 

If I'd not discovered Lamy turquoise shaded on 90g or better paper, why should I get more pens. I had a P-75 for 40 years....I'd never used that inherited pretty Esterbrook regular flex....having the next generation of the cheap pressed plastic and metal top as a youth.

 

Semi&maxi are too wet for most shading unless a perfect match of paper and ink.

One does have to have better paper for shading; if one prefers the chap stuff...one gets for what one pays.

I'd rather not confess how long I'd used cheap paper, even after I knew better. But with out shading inks; why get better than 80g copy paper.

Why spend ink money on slick papers like  Rhoda 80/90g* or Clairefontaine Triomphe 90g. *I have the Rhoda 90g. 

Or semi-flex nibs with line variation.

Just because someone has six posts don't automatically mena one is new to fountain pens.

But just because one used fountain pens for a long time, don't mean one is aware of what paper will do to a ink.

 

Unfortunately Sandy1 dies and her heirs removed her world great examples of nib width, paper to make the same ink look ever so different.

Do look up the 8-9 grand papers she used over the last decade....and get up to date. ............been telling my self that for years.

 

That wet writing pen Osmia piston died after a few months. Plastic Gasket 1.0. Had my wife not forced me to go look up a few pens that had been in her aunts drawer for 15 years and ours also for so long. I'd sold my Osmia/faber-castel  540 unused for E 5.00 and thought I'd done well with obsolete messy fountain pens. I'd wanted a whole Euro for the smoke gray '48-52 Esterbrook.

 

Semi-flex was something mythical back often on the com 13 years ago, especially in the States, which was where most of the posters were.

When I put a mythical Pelikan 140 to my thumb nail test, I knew what all the fuss was all about before even inking it.

 

My P-75 is and was a semi-nail.............it was locked up along with it's little brother the silver BP/MP in the jewelry box jail......why buy ink for something decades unused.

 

I had three or so working fountain pens and a whole three boring inks....in I was using cheap 80g paper.....they didn't shade, and I didn't know about line variation....which is sometimes absorbed by poor paper.

 

By finding out in both only way back then, Lamy Turquoise  the only two reviews; that it shaded and showed me.........it shaded on 90g paper.

It was not a mistake of the ink...to shade as some think when newer.

Of course IMO shading is even more impressive in cursive than in printing, in there is more graduation of affect.  Printing is much more off-on.

 

I had already found monotone ink; boring.

 

The passed Piembi, was so very, very nice as to give me a small school booklet of Oxford Optic 90g paper with some 20 different inks with dogs jumping over a sleeping fox Lamy Turqoise was not one of her inks she showed me.

In that booklet Lamy Turquoise shaded; when I wrote it into it.

 

Lamy Turquoise was the Turquoise all Turquoise inks were compared too, back then. I found it Blaa until I found out it shaded. One did need better paper.

 

With out that, and know how much that suddenly dead Osmia was worth. (did get it repaired way later. I keep saying the 140 was my first semi-flex...it was; in I didn't know the Osmia was a flexi pen.**

I'd not be here. I'd not have a box of line variation, and a moving carton of shading inks.

 

***Flexi was any pen that wasn't a nail or a semi-nail, back then. (The fountain pen world was maddeningly vague back then.)

 

Superflex was just coming in, but not universal. Flexi covers all bases even semi-nail. If one mashes it hard enough the tines do spread to 2 X.

 

I hadn't discovered maxi-semi-flex nor my flex scale...which works fine for me. A Rupp nib was ever so flexi, but refused to go over 3 X tine spread. It is still my most flexi, maxi-semi-flex.

There is nail&semi-nail.

 

Regular flex, semi-flex & maxi-semi-flex. The latter two are flair nibs...no effort fun nibs.

 

And for those new to superflex, I divide it into 3 levels. The more superflex one has the more the borders blur to how flexible the nib is.

 

Way back in the When....Flexi was used for everything. I was looking for a superflex, and thought Swan would give me my best chance of catching one. All I found in England...when flex was mentioned....even from the couple best sites...whom I suspected to be Marshal and Oldsfield ( I did have their book) ...it was flexi, moderate flexi, but no very flexi.

 

After 6 weeks of getting nowhere at long distance, (also Swan had horribly complicated low ink loading mechanisms because they had to get around patents. In Germany, I ran across a Degussa superflex nibbed no name German War Pen. I didn't need to chase vague Swans anymore. 

 

The trouble with superflex nibs is one should learn to write (draw the letters)  to make them worthwhile............yep...some day. I've been saying that for a decade.

 

MTCN77,  first off I don't know where you are from, so can't advise where to go to get good to better paper.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

Do you have a early '50's Sheaffer semi-flex pens ('40's Whal-Eversharp) or '50-70 German ones?

This modern day 'flexi/superflexi that is being offered to the ignorant, is not even semi-flex...........superflexi = Pelikan 200's regular flex or Japanese 'soft' nib flax rate...according to someone unfortunate to have bought a sueprflexi.

 

I suggest going to German ebay and getting a Geha 790...has been the best buy for the last 13 years that I know of. I have four standar sized 790's, and a  780 and a medium small760 &.....and a different pen a 725; a beautiful finely balanced inlaid nibbed semi-flex. .

Torpedo was real in in the '50's. MB 146/9, Pelikan 140/400nn, Geha 790/760/780 (the 780 is rare and has such a cost.

.

Back in the stone age (13 years ago) , a Ghea 790 cost E12-15, then shot up to 19.... Later I got one for 25 also....

I should have kept my mouth shut instead of telling everyone and his brother what a great buy it was.

Pelikan 140 was going for E-50....now for E-90-100.

Geha 790 ....E-60-80............If one goes to the Auction section of German Ebay...do make sure he will mail to where ever you are, some are paranoid about trusting foreign mail systems.

Degussa made the Geha nibs, so are a slight tad more springy than the Pelikan semi-flex nibs.

 

If you have a semi-flex....I think EF a waste of time in that flex for noobies. (Many are heavy handed and turn that EF into F/M.) Suggest a M or a B.....and in Vintage pens a B is a writing nib, not a signature nib. It is 1/2 a width narrower than modern....so think of it as a fat M.

A M nib could be thought of as a fat F.

 

You can dink around with semi-flex in a thinner nib later...IMO.

Because if you haven't got a German Semi-flex nibbed pen...........line variation becomes a chore of Ahab or other superflex nibs. ....Work if one don't expect it is not fun.

 

Semi-flex is a flair nib. Not a calligraphy nib. It gives you that old fashioned fountain pen script with out you doing anything at all.

 

 

Oh those '50-70 German semi-flex nibs are factory stubs, so are a flat nib.................I find them a lot of fun.

I've 35 semi's and 15 maxi's.............but then again I live at the well and have been chasing them back when they were cheap....grumbling about old guys telling me how real cheap they use to be just a long hand full of years before.

 

So you have a choice, buy now when they are cheap....or wait for the next depression, when money is tighter than nob.

 

The Golden Rule of fountain pens is....take your time.

 

Do Not join the Pen of the Week in the Mail Club......nor the Pen of the Month Club.

Pen of the quarter gets you a more researched pen, and three months of saving for it....makes it affordable when it is not in Pen of the Week Club.

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:34 PM, bunnspecial said:

A 1960s B or OB 149 isn't ground terribly different than a modern one.

The flexibility of the nib is more flexible.

I think the alloy's are different in the nib geometry that I can seen is not as much as I would expect between what I call regular flex and you call springy, and semi-flex.

 

My 100n is superflex, 5 X.

I have Boehler (Osmia) pre-war pens. Not enough pens to comment on. My Ibis is semi-flex....but they could well be up to '54.

(More at the bottom.)

 

I have a Woolf with a fat B=BB stubbish. It only gives me 2 X tine spread but easier than semi-nail. At the point where I have to ask my self is that really regular flex or not.

 

I think my 146's are '80's not '70's nor 90's. It is as well known mostly one has to eyeball the nib width if one has no paperwork One 146's eyeballs to a regular flex F the other to a OBB, which flexes a slight bit better and easier than the more modern Woolf

My 149 is a W.Germany F. Seems about the same as the 146's.

My W.Germany small Pelikan 600 OBB. is slightly softer and has a bit easier tine spread and a bit more than those two 146's and 149 regular flex MB's.

 

The way I define regular flex is a springy comfortable riding nib; that when well mashed will give a tine spread of 3 X. (Works most of the time.) these three are in the 3 X tine spread set.....in the more flexible nibs spreading the tines to more than 3 X courts a sprung nib.

Lets call regular flex  soft +.

Semi-flex would be soft ++.

Maxi-semi-flex would be soft +++.

 

I was hunting a 400NN, and that ugly never seen the likes of it MB 234 1/2 was going to drive up the price. Planned to sell it and the Pelikan BP&MP to get some of my money back.

This was back when I was new to semi-flex, the KOB nib of the MB was real nice.

I did a balance test and was surprised the thicker girthed, brass gut so more back weighted standard sized 234 1/2 Deluxe ('52-54 only) came in first. Geha thin medium-long 725 semi-flex F came in second...is the better looking pen. Third was as much a shock as the MB that was first. P-75...4th was that 400NN I'd chased.

 

My next MB was checked out in a live auction and what a nib....the heavy standard sized rolled gold 742, has the only nib I have that is between the tightly clumped semi-flex of 35 pens and now 15 maxi-semi-flex. The 742 is either the stiffest maxi I have or the most flexi semi....or it's own flex rate.

Maxi could be divided into 3 rates if one is OCD enough.....but I gave it up. Semi for me always clumped close together in flex rate.

 

I was missing a MB in Maxi, and at the cost of MB's was in no great hurry to buy one...then in a live auction plastic bag pen lot a real ugly beater of a '50-60 medium small 146 showed up with a real nice maxi-semi-flex nib.

 

Francis worked wonders on that pen. I really should have taken a picture of how poorly it looked when I sent it off. I'd not expected the wonder.

It has great balance.....but not quite perfect the 234 1/2 IMO still has it beat for that....as do the 400's and the 790/780 Geha's. ...

much better balance than the  '70 now Large 146.

I think the Pelikan 600 has better more nimble balance than my old medium-large 146. That medium large 146 still has good enough balance to make me happy.

 

I don't often re-ink a pen, but I have with the old 146...the stately ride of it is good enough, and more nimble than the more stately balance of the large 146.

 

I do like regular flex nibs, in they are better for two toned shading being a dryer nib than semi-flex.

There are many times I'll give up shading for the even softer ride of maxi-semi-flex. When I finally prune the maxi's are last to go.

 

I like the medium-small, standard and medium/large/long pens more than the large pens....out side the large Snorkel.That was a surprise that the snorkel was as long as my Safari.

The other large pen that has adequate balance IMO is  English** second generation large P-45 has pretty good balance because of the longer tapered body.

**Regular flex nib not a US nail, or I'd never bought it. My English Parker Jr. Duofold is semi-flex. Parker had to chase Swan's large assortment of nib flexes.

My Snorkel is Australian with a factory BB stub and a maxi-semi-flex nib. Again chasing the Commonwealth's Swan nibs.

 

[bunnspecial]

29 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

The flexibility of the nib is more flexible. My 100n is superflex, 5 X.

FLEX ISN'T EVERYTHING. A NIB ISN'T JUNK BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FLEX.

 

FLEX ISN'T EVERYTHING. A NIB ISN'T JUNK BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FLEX.

You claim modern obliques don't produce line variation because they don't flex.

 

They produce line variation because of the way they are ground. Flex is NOT the only way to get line variation.

 

I have plenty of vintage obliques that don't flex either. Some of my Vacumatics and 51s would like to speak to that. They still give line variation.

 

With that said, I shouldn't have expected to get anything other than an incoherent rambling wall of text in response despite showing something directly contrary to what you state since flex is the sole metric of what makes a nib good or bad...

[mtcn77]

38 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

You claim modern obliques don't produce line variation because they don't flex.

 

They produce line variation because of the way they are ground. Flex is NOT the only way to get line variation.

 

I have plenty of vintage obliques that don't flex either. Some of my Vacumatics and 51s would like to speak to that. They still give line variation.

I think you mistook him. I get it because my Kaweco sport M nib was so smooth, yet so hard. I think it had BBS issues because my hand felt numb after using it. You can see in his text he likes the same softness.

 

1 hour ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

There are many times I'll give up shading for the even "softer ride" of maxi-semi-flex.

I totally get it. Thank you for your generous explanation. Maybe they won't be so scary to pick in the future.

[Bo Bo Olson]

6 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

You claim modern obliques don't produce line variation because they don't flex.

 I claim modern oblique  nibs after the '60's (and semi-flex) don't produce enough line variation to be worth buying.

You like to hunt for oblique line variation.

I don't.

As I answered your hollering, it came to me that the semi-flex nibs being factory stubs had a great deal to do with semi-flex oblique's  patterns.

 

I prefer to have line variation, and having had both nail oblique and still having regular flex,  what you call springy nibs in oblique and don't find enough line variation to waste money on it.

 

I do have very nice line variation in my @ 15 semi&maxi-semi-flex obliques.

As I explained to you before not even my W.German regular flex obliques 3 (not counting the NOS pen and nib) and my 2 or three other modern obliques. One is a Pelikan 381 OB, don't remember what the other one or two are, in I don't use them much. I'm using the 381 because it's a cartridge pen.

My two nail obliques showed no line variation at all...The OM I sold, the OB Pendelton Brown made into a real nice CI.

 

So your springy obliques may be up to your standards but are not up to mine.

 

I still advise not wasting money on nail, semi-nail or regular flex obliques.

I do have enough semi-flex and regular flex to know the difference having good line variation and having to hunt for it.

 

I'm really disappointed at you screaming at me.

So I'm ignoring you from now on.

I suggest you do the same, in I will continue tell folks the or my truth.....don't waste your money buying any oblique that is not semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex in the line variation it too little. A waste of money.

 

Eventually at my age, I'll be selling my modern obliques; with any honor I'll tell them to grind it to a CI....or a straight stub; in as oblique they are a waste of money compared to stubbed semi-flex.

 

Ah, I'd not thought that; if someone grinds his modern oblique to a stub, it might be of use.

 

However having more than enough semi&maxi-semi-flex stub obliques, and OBBB (unsuable...to wide) in 30 degree maxi and a mix of semi&maxi in both 15 & 30 degrees in OBB, OB, OM & OF. I certainly won't waste my time doing that to regular flex/springy nibs.

With vintage stubbed  '50-70 semi-maxi Obliques I don't have grind to me substandard nibs.

 

I sat at the well, 35 semi-flex, 15/16 maxi-semi-flex; and a mix of  15 maxi or semi-flex obliques. (I see no reason to really count my5 or 6 regular flex nibs when talking about real obliques.)

 

I did notice some of the obliques were ground in 15 degree angles and to a lesser extent some were ground to 30 degrees. I've not run into any ground to 22 degrees. I as far as I know was the first to notice 30 degree grinds.....but that has little to do with this.

 

I do thank you for the help with the western's watches.

Good by and good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

[bunnspecial]

1 hour ago, mtcn77 said:

1 hour ago, bunnspecial said:

 

I think you mistook him. I get it because my Kaweco sport M nib was so smooth, yet so hard. I think it had BBS issues because my hand felt numb after using it. You can see in his text he likes the same softness.

I understood perfectly.

 

I just tire of repetitive diatribes about how older German nibs are the only ones worth buying, especially when walls of rambling incoherent text come in and intrude any other nib discussion.

 

I see this particular poster make plenty of other demonstrably incorrect statements("papers lighter than 90gsm don't shade", "saturated inks don't shade") and the like. I try to put my money where my mouth is and DEMONSTRATE when statements this poster makes are wrong, but I'm just met with another wall of text.

 

I'd pass all of this off were it not for the fact that it's often directed at people new to this hobby who get told that their pens they are enjoying are junk.

 

10 years ago I was in that position and I muddled through essentially the same posts being made in this thread(almost word for word) buying into this. In fact my main pen for years was a fine nibbed Pelikan 205 that I bought new in 2011. Then I started trying flex nibs and finding that there were a lot of great nibs, modern and vintage, that I enjoyed a whole lot more. I'm not anti-flex, and in fact today have been writing with a lovely OB flexible Pelikan 100.

 

At the same time, I pick up something like a Parker Vacumatic or 51 with a nib that needs zero pressure to write a smooth wet fine line, or an MB 14 with only a bit of spring but a nice amount of feedback, or a modern Duofold with a wonderful amount of feedback even if it's stiff. I've found what I like in 10 years and it's by venturing outside just tiny little vintage Pelikans and Montblancs.

 

Oh, and we also have the rants about modern "big" pens and nibs, never mind the fact that one of the largest common nibs, the Montblanc #9 as found on the 149, has been around since the 1930s and that back in the 1920s and 30s, Parker, Sheaffer, Montblanc, and others made large pens. Go back to the eyedropper and safety era and there were some giant pens, but no, anything bigger than a Pelikan 200/400 is a "modern fad"....

 

So yes, I understand perfectly and I don't think the same things repeated ad nauseum, particularly when they're an opinion stated as fact or something that's just positively incorrect show up in every thread.

[mtcn77]

1 hour ago, bunnspecial said:

saturated inks don't shade

They don't. Sheen hard-counters shade. There is a reason I bought KWZ Warsaw Dreaming after all, the least shading ink in my opinion.

[bunnspecial]

3 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

They don't. Sheen hard-counters shade. There is a reason I bought KWZ Warsaw Dreaming after all, the least shading ink in my opinion.

 Examples coming after while...

 

I can assure you they do, and saturated does not automatically equal sheen, nor does an ink need to be saturated to sheen.

[mtcn77]

1 minute ago, bunnspecial said:

 Examples coming after while...

 

I can assure you they do, and saturated does not automatically equal sheen, nor does an ink need to be saturated to sheen.

You are correct, saturation isn't sheen. However, you need an extra amount of saturation to get the necessary two-tone.

Plus, KWZ Warsaw Dreaming is mentioned as 'thick' here. It's drying time is also on the longer side.

Somehow, it is found to  smoothen scratchy nibs which I am glad to hear. Thanks to an ink guy who have promised to have delivered on this review in october, looks like he has...

[collectorofmanythings]

On 12/11/2021 at 6:16 PM, mtcn77 said:

They don't. Sheen hard-counters shade. There is a reason I bought KWZ Warsaw Dreaming after all, the least shading ink in my opinion.

Some do, it is just less common than less saturated inks, which almost always shade. But there are some saturated inks which have some nice shading.

[collectorofmanythings]

My goodness @mtcn77, @bunnspecial, and @Bo Bo Olson! I haven’t come on here is a few weeks (a lot has been going on) and when I come back I see a argument has blown up! You all have your points, and frankly @Bo Bo Olson maybe we can condense the posts a little so we don’t have many walls of text, but let’s all stay calm and remember that any issue argued about on here is not that serious, nothing done in the fountain pen industry is going to do anything to change the world, or at least the whole world and not just our own worlds.

 

Also, a little update, I have bought the medium nib. I will write another update on it when it arrives.

[mtcn77]

I think I have ink fungus, it smells vanilla plus something sour. Thankfully, FC writes like a champ < something to consider.

[WayneM]

I have JoWo nibs in sizes S, M, B, and 1.1mm stub.  Generally, I find all the #6 JoWos to be a bit drier than I like and have tuned mine to make them a bit wetter. (Lots of videos on Youtube on how to do this).  I think my handwriting looks best when using a broad or stub nib, so these are the ones I use most. I suggest checking Goulet Pens website and looking at the “nib nook” where you can see comparisons.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I guess I can do the modern 20 second re

[Bo Bo Olson]

In I was reading at @ 425 words a minute in 8th-9th grade as tested by the reading teacher with a machine, I tend to forget """"""Many resources indicate that the average reading speed of most adults is around 200 to 250 words per minute.""""""""""