Should I get a JoWo medium or a broad nib?

[collectorofmanythings]

So I have a pen which currently has a fine nib, but I would prefer a broader, wetter, and smoother experience. This brand uses JoWo nibs, and the fine was too feedbacky and fine, and it was a touch on the dry side.

 

So this brand sells extra branded nib units, which are JoWo #6 18k nibs, and I was wondering whether I should buy a medium or a broad. I would like a smoother and broader (but I do not want a super broad nib) writing experience. So is the jump in nibs sizes from medium to broad, or fine to medium? Is the medium noticeably smoother?

 

Thank you for your help,

W. Major

[MuddyWaters]

the 18k jowo nibs are quite expensive. is there a way for you to try it out and see before you buy?

[Karmachanic]

Try both M and B in steel.  Pretty much the same writing experience as the 18k.

[collectorofmanythings]

On 11/16/2021 at 8:21 PM, MuddyWaters said:

the 18k jowo nibs are quite expensive. is there a way for you to try it out and see before you buy?

No- the closest pen store to me is about 2 hours away- and I’m New York City!

[collectorofmanythings]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:52 AM, Karmachanic said:

Try both M and B in steel.  Pretty much the same writing experience as the 18k.

Would you say that the medium #5 steel writes the same as the medium 18k #6? Because I have an F-C on the way with a steel #5 nib. 

[MuddyWaters]

1 hour ago, collectorofmanythings said:

Would you say that the medium #5 steel writes the same as the medium 18k #6? Because I have an F-C on the way with a steel #5 nib. 

 

No, I wouldn't use that as a comparison. The nibs feel different, even if it's just the angle of attack that's different when you hold the pen.

[ParramattaPaul]

I quite like the broad nib I have on the one Jowo-nibbed pen that I have.

[A Smug Dill]

3 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

Would you say that the medium #5 steel writes the same as the medium 18k #6? Because I have an F-C on the way with a steel #5 nib. 

 

I wouldn't say so. You should get a proper JoWo #6 steel nib for comparison. It's a smaller price to pay than leaping straight into getting a JoWo gold nib you may not like; and, who knows, you might actually like the JoWo #6 steel nib.

 

The way I see it, this thread is about how to make the best, most informed decision choosing between a Medium and a Broad in JoWo 18K gold #6 nibs, not how to spend the least money on your part to arrive at that knowledge and decision.

[Karmachanic]

8 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

Would you say that the medium #5 steel writes the same as the medium 18k #6? Because I have an F-C on the way with a steel #5 nib. 

 

My point is that, generally speaking, the main difference between an 18k M nib and a steel M nib is €100, which does not necessarily result in a better writing experience.  Buy steel M for €12 , and see if it better suits your needs.  Then .....

[Bo Bo Olson]

A nail is a nail, be it gold or steel.

I don't know JoWo nibs.

Semi-nail is semi-nail gold or steel also.

The JoWo tipping is German so don't matter if 18-14 K or steel nib.

 

There is no soft gold nails...folks compare a semi-nail gold nib to a steel nail nib and don't know much about semi-nails think gold is softer. Gold Myth # 4.

I do have a Lamy Persona 18 K nail....and it's a nail first and gold third. I have a Pelikan 400 with a D nib on it, and it is a nail's nail.

When possible I stay away from nails, in I won't use them much.

The Person has a CI grind on it now, so gets used.

 

A P-75 or a Pelikan 400/600 are semi-nail gold nibs.

18 K is not necessary softer than 14 K. A nail is a nail, 18-14 K or steel.

 

Regular flex appears to have become rare, the Pelikan 200 and Japanese nibs are all that I know of...but I'm behind the moon over here Germany, some new companies could be making regular flex. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Try the steel nib, if you don't like it and 2 hours there and back is putting oneself into the Danger Zone.

Too bad about your bad knee and need for a wide mouthed wooden cane.

My only experience with NY subways was back in silver money days, but thought them quick then.

 

[collectorofmanythings]

On 11/18/2021 at 8:21 PM, MuddyWaters said:

 

No, I wouldn't use that as a comparison. The nibs feel different, even if it's just the angle of attack that's different when you hold the pen.

Hmm, ok.

 

On 11/18/2021 at 9:52 PM, ParramattaPaul said:

I quite like the broad nib I have on the one Jowo-nibbed pen that I have.

I have a few steel JoWo broads, I find them nice as well.

 

On 11/18/2021 at 10:24 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 

I wouldn't say so. You should get a proper JoWo #6 steel nib for comparison. It's a smaller price to pay than leaping straight into getting a JoWo gold nib you may not like; and, who knows, you might actually like the JoWo #6 steel nib.

 

The way I see it, this thread is about how to make the best, most informed decision choosing between a Medium and a Broad in JoWo 18K gold #6 nibs, not how to spend the least money on your part to arrive at that knowledge and decision.

Hmm, ok. I have to get an 18k nib if I want to keep the warranty (which I certainly do, it is a limited edition of 25 pens). But you think the steel 6s will feel pretty much the same as the 18k 6s in terms of line width and smoothness? 

 

On 11/19/2021 at 3:12 AM, Karmachanic said:

 

My point is that, generally speaking, the main difference between an 18k M nib and a steel M nib is €100, which does not necessarily result in a better writing experience.  Buy steel M for €12 , and see if it better suits your needs.  Then .....

As I said before, I have to get and 18k nib.

 

13 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

A nail is a nail, be it gold or steel.

I don't know JoWo nibs.

Semi-nail is semi-nail gold or steel also.

The JoWo tipping is German so don't matter if 18-14 K or steel nib.

 

There is no soft gold nails...folks compare a semi-nail gold nib to a steel nail nib and don't know much about semi-nails think gold is softer. Gold Myth # 4.

I do have a Lamy Persona 18 K nail....and it's a nail first and gold third. I have a Pelikan 400 with a D nib on it, and it is a nail's nail.

When possible I stay away from nails, in I won't use them much.

The Person has a CI grind on it now, so gets used.

 

A P-75 or a Pelikan 400/600 are semi-nail gold nibs.

18 K is not necessary softer than 14 K. A nail is a nail, 18-14 K or steel.

 

Regular flex appears to have become rare, the Pelikan 200 and Japanese nibs are all that I know of...but I'm behind the moon over here Germany, some new companies could be making regular flex. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Try the steel nib, if you don't like it and 2 hours there and back is putting oneself into the Danger Zone.

Too bad about your bad knee and need for a wide mouthed wooden cane.

My only experience with NY subways was back in silver money days, but thought them quick then.

 

Well the 18k JoWo nibs are definitely softer than steel ones, but I would by no means consider them soft.

 

 

Anyway, all I would really like to know is whether any of you have both and can tell me whether the “jump” in the nib sizes in terms of smoothness is between the fine and medium or medium and broad, as well as if you particular medium or broad runs on the dry or wet side.

[maclink]

3 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

Anyway, all I would really like to know is whether any of you have both and can tell me whether the “jump” in the nib sizes in terms of smoothness is between the fine and medium or medium and broad, as well as if you particular medium or broad runs on the dry or wet side.

The reason why there's reluctance in giving a direct response to your query is because the response will be subjective and personal.  Not all Jowo nibs are similarly tuned to give equal smoothness and adjusted ink flow.  Your impression of smoothness will also be affected by your ink and paper of choice.  These are significant variables that likely heavily contribute to the differences in experience even with the nibs being identical.

 

Generally, I find the jump from a fine to a medium Jowo nibs to be significant in terms of smoothness and find the writing experience with a medium Jowo nib to typically be a lot smoother from my POV.  I use F nibs quite a bit, a factor that I think should be taken into consideration.  If I write with a F nib and grow accustomed to it, I then switch to a M nib and think I'm on writing on ice.  In the same way, if I write with a M nib for a while, it will begin to feel no longer like I'm on ice but just normal. 

 

I dislike Jowo broads since at that increased line width, I prefer some line variation.  However, I do have a couple broad nibs and they offer even smoother writing experiences than medium nibs.  You may choose the broad nib, love the smoothness, but the line width and your writing may not agree with it.

 

Finally, there inexpensive ways of exploring Jowo nibs.   This is all that's being suggested.  It's so common to read two very experienced users have quite contrasting views on the writing experience of a particular pen and nib.  I think that your personal experience is vital to the decision.

[ParramattaPaul]

1 hour ago, maclink said:

The reason why there's reluctance in giving a direct response to your query is because the response will be subjective and personal.  Not all Jowo nibs are similarly tuned to give equal smoothness and adjusted ink flow.  Your impression of smoothness will also be affected by your ink and paper of choice.  These are significant variables that likely heavily contribute to the differences in experience even with the nibs being identical.

Exactly!  And, then qualifying how a pen writes is also influenced by everything from presonal taste to how one holds a pen (angle. etc.).

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

7 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

Well the 18k JoWo nibs are definitely softer than steel ones, but I would by no means consider them soft.

Then they would be a semi-nail like a P-75 or modern post '97 Pelikan 400 & 600 nibs. IMO.

I've had an 18 K nail... well still got it, but it's now a CI and have a nails nail Pelikan D nib. Those are 1 X or, no tine spread, no bounce .... no 'soft' at all.

The P-75, 400&600 if well mashed will go 2 X of a semi-nail. There is a tiny bit of tine bend.

 

I see it as a myth...soft gold nails....soft gold semi-nails is not a myth. If one sees semi-nail as soft.

 

 

[collectorofmanythings]

On 11/26/2021 at 12:38 PM, maclink said:

The reason why there's reluctance in giving a direct response to your query is because the response will be subjective and personal.  Not all Jowo nibs are similarly tuned to give equal smoothness and adjusted ink flow.  Your impression of smoothness will also be affected by your ink and paper of choice.  These are significant variables that likely heavily contribute to the differences in experience even with the nibs being identical.

 

Generally, I find the jump from a fine to a medium Jowo nibs to be significant in terms of smoothness and find the writing experience with a medium Jowo nib to typically be a lot smoother from my POV.  I use F nibs quite a bit, a factor that I think should be taken into consideration.  If I write with a F nib and grow accustomed to it, I then switch to a M nib and think I'm on writing on ice.  In the same way, if I write with a M nib for a while, it will begin to feel no longer like I'm on ice but just normal. 

 

I dislike Jowo broads since at that increased line width, I prefer some line variation.  However, I do have a couple broad nibs and they offer even smoother writing experiences than medium nibs.  You may choose the broad nib, love the smoothness, but the line width and your writing may not agree with it.

 

Finally, there inexpensive ways of exploring Jowo nibs.   This is all that's being suggested.  It's so common to read two very experienced users have quite contrasting views on the writing experience of a particular pen and nib.  I think that your personal experience is vital to the decision.

Thank you for your response! I understand that they are not all made the same and is it subjective. I mostly use Tomoe River and Clariefontaine paper. So you think the jump is from fine to medium? Thank you! I have a Magnum, Duragraph, Eco, and Sport all with Broad nibs (which are all JoWo to my knowledge) and I find that they can be a tad too broad. But thank you again for saying you think the jump is from fine to medium whether than medium to broad.

[mtcn77]

Hi, I'm newly assigned.

Just want to comment on smoothness/wetness balance. A wet flow might saturate the paper achieving the opposite result, so be careful for too absorbent paper with wet flow.

Edited December 9, 2021 by mtcn77

[Karmachanic]

45 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

We might enjoy the smoothness experience in a larger size nib, but it might impart a faster ink flow

 

Might not.  In my limited experience there is no inate correlation between nib size and ink flow.

[mtcn77]

45 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Might not.  In my limited experience there is no inate correlation between nib size and ink flow.

Okay, edited that out.

[mtcn77]

Quote

For reference:

 

 

Where Stephen Brown talks about cheap copy paper absorbency leading to more feedback.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Noobies chase 'smoothest possible' at all costs, in they don't know there is more than butter smooth.

That feeling the paper can be a plus and not the negative of ball point use.

It is my feeling that butter smooth is a relatively modern desire, that in the old days the nibs having tear drop or stub tipping in '50-60's era gave good and smooth, the level under butter smooth, that allowed a feel of the paper.

 

I feel the Golden Age of fountain pens died @ 1970. (The Silver age could be said was in the '80-90's)

The Golden Age of paper died unnoticed  in the '80's.  I have the remments of a cheap paper pad bought when I was a ball point barbarian, that is more fountain pen friendly than even Clairefontaine  Triomphe or Rhoda; just not so smooth. Once even cheap papers were coated because some drier inks shaded ... and oddly lots of fountain pen users liked two toned shading inks....instead of as vivid and wet as possible of the noobie.

 

Today we live in The Golden Age of Inks..............so we need to have the better papers....for the great modern inks to dance on.........

Paper is often underestimated to it's importance.

 

Now that Sandy1's heirs removed all her ever so grand pictures of how the basic 5 widths of a pennib, can make the same ink look so different on 4-5 very good to better papers.

We can't say to to Ink Review and read any of our Ink Guru's ink reviews. ....

They can be read but with out the pictures............not worth much......BUT AS A LIST OF VERY FINE AFFORDABLE PAPERS EVERY ONE NEEDS.

There were some 8-10 papers over the last decade or so........I need to make that list................I need to buy some of those good to better papers.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

 

 

And I need Sandy1's list of good to better 'affordable' papers.

I've only got 30 or so papers, and feel so 'noobie'.

 

And I've developed a liking for an western M nib. That is smoother than an F and not real wide............take a look at that disrespected width.

Old post of mine.

"""

M is looked down on this com...in many come in on an M and go skinny or fat....but is a great nib size actually, good for shading inks, glitter inks and better than F on classic rough laid or Lenin papers.

Using MB Toffee a brown shading ink, back when I was newer.

 

F was light with dark trails.

M was 50-50 in shading , breaking my anti-M prejudice I picked up here on the com.

B was dark with light trails.""""

 

Of course you have to have 90g paper or better for two toned shading, except for Rhoda 80g...........I don't have that, I have Rhoda 90g.

Shading inks are for more advanced users.

Some 'noobies' avoid it, thinking they are having a mistake....

 

I do find mono-tone vivid ink....boring.