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Vegan leather - it's an oxymoron


inkypete

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18 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

Several decades ago, in a particular sub-culture, it was referred to it as "pleather"

 

And some just seem to call it “PU leather” these days. Maybe their mother tongue makes it difficult to pronounce the pl consonant smoothly.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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"Pee-yew" is the written form of the sound one makes when inhaling the smell of a stinky object.  Say it aloud:  sounds the same as PU.

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1 hour ago, Aysedasi said:

Isn't the PU short for polyurethane?  

 

Yes, it is.

 

I was joking.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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18 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Yes, it is.

 

I was joking.

 

Ah, sorry for being slow on the uptake then.....  ;)

http://www.aysedasi.co.uk

 

 

 

 

She turned me into a newt.......

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You mean it's NOT "Naugahyde"? B)

I remember seeing ads for stuff made out of that when when I was a kid which had some sort of toy monster made out of the stuff, and I sooo wanted one....

Hmmmm.  Wonder if I can find one for sale at a semi-reasonable price on the Bay of Evil.  I did find a toy "Serta" sheep in an antiques mall in Ohio a few years ago that was marked as being Sheep #44 (my husband is an Aries, and his birthday is April 4th) for five or ten bucks.  It's somewhere in the living room....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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On 10/19/2021 at 8:49 PM, inkypete said:

Like soy milk. I have never seen a lactating soya bean. It ain't milk - it's soy juice. And now almond milk - show me a lactating almond! It's almond juice.

 

Well, you won't like this then: https://foodinstitute.com/focus/plant-based-milk-wins-court-battle-in-labeling-war-2/

 

And you'd probably better put away any references to the milk of human kindness. 

 

The remark I was going to close with is, on reflection, too political, so I won't. I will just say that I am not in sympathy with the quoted statement. 

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37 minutes ago, Paul-in-SF said:

 

Well, you won't like this then: https://foodinstitute.com/focus/plant-based-milk-wins-court-battle-in-labeling-war-2/

 

And you'd probably better put away any references to the milk of human kindness. 

 

The remark I was going to close with is, on reflection, too political, so I won't. I will just say that I am not in sympathy with the quoted statement. 

I think there has been similar legal action to stop the use of soy milk but that failed too. 

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/7260/postminipo0.png
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3 minutes ago, inkypete said:

I think there has been similar legal action to stop the use of soy milk but that failed too. 

Once I was diagnosed as lactose intolerant, I started drinking Soy Milk and paying attention to these squabbles.

 

These days, I use Ensure, Muscle Milk or lactose free milk.

 

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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There are countries where non-milk can't be legally called "milk".

 

I have noticed that non-leather bags are advertized to appeal to vegans, but I have made the decision a few years ago to never buy non-leather again, the bags just don't last. For fast fashion, non-leather is fine (and I don't participate in fast fashion), but when buying for quality and longevity leather can't be beat.

 

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17 hours ago, Olya said:

I have noticed that non-leather bags are advertized to appeal to vegans,

 

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't ”synthetic material that looks nothing like, and does not allude to being or imitating, any animal product traditionally considered classy or luxurious not the least for asserting human's position in the food chain” be more likely to appeal to lifestyle vegetarians and vegans? If suppleness or mechanical durability is a selling point, surely it's possible to trumpet that property in a synthetic material without saying “leather”?

 

Edited by A Smug Dill
typo

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Don't see much of these as oxymorons rather than descriptive labels of things made of other stuff that exhibit either some esthetic similarity or other similar property to the stuff being 'faked'.  For example, PU leather is supposed to either look of feel similar to actual leather.  Too much overthink about terms in my view.

 

 

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9 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't ”synthetic material that looks nothing like, and does not allude to being or imitating, any animal product traditionally considered classy or luxurious not the last for asserting human's position in the food chain” be more likely to appeal to lifestyle vegetarians and vegans? If suppleness or mechanical durability is a selling point, surely it's possible to trumpet that property in a synthetic material without saying “leather”?

I had to laugh, but yes!

 

The impact on environment or animal welfare is always there, everyone can discuss this till everyone's face turns blue.... Many a touted "environmentally friendly" packaging system can be in fact more harmful than the old use of plastic (when looking at production process and recycling), I have read some articles over time, but am not invested enough to retain it all or save it in my bookmarks.

 

Point is, so much of it is marketing and in terms of leather I am beyond happy to have ditched non-leather, my wallet is in daily use for more than 5 years now and looks as good as new, my oldest leather handbag has been in temps of -20°C and +40°C, on trains, plains, boats and cars and it looks as good as new after about a decade.

The PU stuff would always fall apart and I'm someone who takes good care of my stuff. One bag had a hole in it very quickly after purchase from the fabric belt loop in my jacket!!! I found that crazy. If the bag doesn't fall apart, the handles will. So then a new bag is due within months and the old PU (i.e. PLASTIC) bag goes into a landfill or is burnt up and I have to pony up again money for a necessity instead of investing straight away in a classic bag made of leather which lasts for.... ages. And I assume leather will disintegrate in a landfill after a while, the PU stuff won't.

 

Leather bags don't have to be expensive, either. Classic style, shop around and you're set for not too much for a long time and the environment and your wallet thanks you.

 

Edit: I just remembered, I cleaned out my wardrobe a while ago and I still had some old PU bag, which I wanted to throw away if damaged or wear till damage or pass onto someone else. The PU had crumbled after a few years and left a trail in my wardrobe and everywhere, I had to bin it. My not-used-for-a-while leather bag did not suffer any damage from just sitting around....

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3 hours ago, como said:

!

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/26/2021 at 3:34 PM, Olya said:

I had to laugh, but yes!

 

The impact on environment or animal welfare is always there, everyone can discuss this till everyone's face turns blue.... Many a touted "environmentally friendly" packaging system can be in fact more harmful than the old use of plastic (when looking at production process and recycling), I have read some articles over time, but am not invested enough to retain it all or save it in my bookmarks.

 

Point is, so much of it is marketing and in terms of leather I am beyond happy to have ditched non-leather, my wallet is in daily use for more than 5 years now and looks as good as new, my oldest leather handbag has been in temps of -20°C and +40°C, on trains, plains, boats and cars and it looks as good as new after about a decade.

The PU stuff would always fall apart and I'm someone who takes good care of my stuff. One bag had a hole in it very quickly after purchase from the fabric belt loop in my jacket!!! I found that crazy. If the bag doesn't fall apart, the handles will. So then a new bag is due within months and the old PU (i.e. PLASTIC) bag goes into a landfill or is burnt up and I have to pony up again money for a necessity instead of investing straight away in a classic bag made of leather which lasts for.... ages. And I assume leather will disintegrate in a landfill after a while, the PU stuff won't.

 

Leather bags don't have to be expensive, either. Classic style, shop around and you're set for not too much for a long time and the environment and your wallet thanks you.

 

Edit: I just remembered, I cleaned out my wardrobe a while ago and I still had some old PU bag, which I wanted to throw away if damaged or wear till damage or pass onto someone else. The PU had crumbled after a few years and left a trail in my wardrobe and everywhere, I had to bin it. My not-used-for-a-while leather bag did not suffer any damage from just sitting around....

your considerations are correct, but as you will have noted, marketing is a complex "science" which often relies on perceptions even when these are wrong, or willfully misleading.

So "vegan-leather" is a more appealing term than "non-leather" which is more appealing than "synthetic" which is more appealing than "plastic"...

Leather is more appealing than plastic in general terms, as we all recall the times when so many things were leather, and we have absorbed the concept and values of durability and even "natural" origin.

So what we want is something with the same characteristics of leather but not the fact you need to kill an animal to obtain it...

Does plastic do that, no (in terms of real durability), you already answered that yourself. But the promise is there... that is where most fall. Does plastic avoid killing an animal, yes (that specific animal) so again the promise is there (is it consequence free on the environment? no, but it's more difficult to immediately perceive that).

 

It is clear that careful thinking can unveil the hidden pitfalls behind certain types of marketing claims, but so many buyers are caught by the initial claim and never look any further before buying... especially when an advantageous price gives them a push.

Again you may be right here, a leather bag can last you much longer and in the end turn out to be a better deal, but in terms of money you need to shell out here and now, plastic most of the time wins hands down...

 

(and to go a step further, marketing can also be that thing that makes you pay a plastic bag as though it was leather...)

 

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On 10/21/2021 at 12:03 PM, austollie said:

vegan leather

Calling in from behind the moon.....vegan leather.....I thought that was non-chrome tanned leather.:headsmack:

 

 

There is one bright spot, all those people , who are vegetarians will have children that are 10% stupider than their parents....from lack of protein. ***

Wearing Plastic famous name  rubber shoes, not the more expensive natural latex. One can recycle old tires for shoes. Oddly that is not IN.

 

***Even the Germans have gone over to advertising fake meat from name meat producing factories.

 

 

If you read 'The Games People Play', you can find out a kick in the 'rear' counts as a pat on the back. Birds of feather flock together, has never been more seen than today's """whoops I should have taken that shot after all, RIP or the Jr. Murderer's Breath Club."

 

It gives them something to talk about, by folks playing the same game so they know the code words, and what part of the game they are playing at that second.

 

I was over by a vegan store in there are one or two things in one needed by my wife who loves properly 1 " fat rimmed pork chops, and was watching U mouthed middle aged women peddle by on their bikes.  I don't know if it was they looked like what they ate, or if it was contagious, the anger of being so disappointment in life, they were so U mouthed.

:(No wonder, they have to go to vegetarian restaurants.

 

Something like 5% of the European population is has lactose problems, (Not counting the 12% attention deprived). Otzie was the more famous, most of the rest come from Sardinia, in those who had lactose problems died out when the folks with cows moved into Europe.

In Germany they had two villages from back then in the late stone age some 15-20 miles apart....with out a war, the non-cow village died out two generations after the cheese makers came to town.

 

But one has to give the non-intelligent something to talk about.........not the state of the world they can not change, or the Philosophy of Desmond Morris. ............WOE is me....I can't eat cheese or have a milk shake.....I got to have soya milk shakes:crybaby:.....the things folks will do to be noticed, and find other simpatico of the same intellectual level.

Those with a few brain cells, who have those screws loose and go to the same shrink; the one with out the screwdriver.

 

A game is known. It is a comfort, knowing it, one's role and it's consequences. It passes time and does not have to make sense.

 

I guess veganism is  better than wasting their money on booze....forgot, they love imported water.:lticaptd:

 

 

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

RIP...200's once great nib, now a double ball.:crybaby::wallbash:

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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On 11/4/2021 at 12:18 AM, sansenri said:

Does plastic avoid killing an animal, yes (that specific animal)

Hi @sansenri.

The message is fully correct, especially with the side note in parentheses.

 

My 2 ç just for curiosity - and because I like to be picky by intention:

 

No animal is killed (a specific animal) for leather production. The animal is killed for the meat and all other parts remain (as waste). If not producing leather, you may utilise the skin for feed, for fertiliser or for producing biogas. Non of the other uses is better or worse. Instead of wasting the skin, why not producing leather?

 

Plastik made from fossil oil is, surprise, surprise, made from a mixture of dead plants and dead animals. This prehistoric dead biomass is not vegan - it always contains former animals in a certain fraction. In other words: animals had to die to form fossil oil.

 

+++ end of picky rant +++

 

No doubt, it may be better not to produce (and consume) so much meat.

Without contradictory feelings, I prefer leather over synthetic materials (if leather is a useful option).

One life!

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Honestly I didn't know that vegan leather was not leather. I used to wonder: how do they do it, vegan leather????

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This thread made me go on the Bay of Evil the other day to see if I could get a toy Nauga (I remember the Naugahyde ads in magazines when I was a kid).

And the answer?  Yes -- IF I was willing to spend an arm and a leg and another arm :yikes: (especially the vintage ones from the 1960s).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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