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Sailor Naginata Togi fountain pen owner?


PotbellyPig
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Can someone who owns the Togi nib fountain pen comment on how well it works with Chinese characters?  I read a post or two that it doesn’t really add much more flair to the writing than a regular fountain pen nib.  I should have included this in my thread about fude nib pens but I forgot.  It really is supposed to be an alternative to the fude nib since the angle of writing changes the line thickness in both nibs.  At least it looks that way to me.

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I bought mine for the feel, which was great.  It was love at first scribble.  I hadn’t asked to try a togi, it just happened to be the broad nib Sailor the clerk at Shosaikan found first.  She told me that since i liked it that much, it would be best to go with that specific pen.  I agreed.  Back then the togi did not have the steep markup it does now.  It was an easy choice.  It would be much harder now.

 

I think it’s too much trouble to change the angle of attack drastically during strokes.  At least for me.  I suppose there’s a bit of natural variation as one writes, but it’s rather subtle.  If i were really concerned with getting everything just right, i wouldn’t be using a fountain pen anyway.

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1 hour ago, gyasko said:

I bought mine for the feel, which was great.  It was love at first scribble.  I hadn’t asked to try a togi, it just happened to be the broad nib Sailor the clerk at Shosaikan found first.  She told me that since i liked it that much, it would be best to go with that specific pen.  I agreed.  Back then the togi did not have the steep markup it does now.  It was an easy choice.  It would be much harder now.

 

I think it’s too much trouble to change the angle of attack drastically during strokes.  At least for me.  I suppose there’s a bit of natural variation as one writes, but it’s rather subtle.  If i were really concerned with getting everything just right, i wouldn’t be using a fountain pen anyway.

Do you use it to write Chinese characters?  Or just for English?

 

Edit; Also can you get line variance by pressing a little harder or softer on the tip or do you have to consciously change the angle?

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36 minutes ago, PotbellyPig said:

Edit; Also can you get line variance by pressing a little harder or softer on the tip or do you have to consciously change the angle?

 

I can answer your question about the softness of the nib: There is none. These nibs are nails, line variation is solely achieved by changing the angle; the nib itself (resp. the tines) is not soft.

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12 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

 

I can answer your question about the softness of the nib: There is none. These nibs are nails, line variation is solely achieved by changing the angle; the nib itself (resp. the tines) is not soft.

Ah so it isn’t like a Sailor Fine point where I think you can add a bit of pressure to get slightly more thickness.  You have to consciously change the angle.  I can see that being annoying.  Although those who write with a fude nib probably change the angle mid character to broaden a stroke.  It must be similar. 

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1 hour ago, PotbellyPig said:

You have to consciously change the angle.  I can see that being annoying.

 

But (generic) ‘you’ as the user of the pen don't, when writing (hanzi, kana, or in the Latin alphabet). If you're consciously trying to produce lines of different widths, such as when drawing with the pen, or doing certain styles of ornamental calligraphy. Otherwise, expressiveness is in how the pen renders the minute changes and fluctuations in your ‘unconscious’ handling of the instrument as you write with it normally; the marks look the way they do, not because of careful crafting on your part, but largely due to the character of the pen and nib.

 

If that character is annoying to you, then don't use the pen; but it isn't because of what you “have to” do that it'd would annoy, if you don't choose the right instrument and/or technique for the intended writing outcome.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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6 hours ago, PotbellyPig said:

Do you use it to write Chinese characters?  Or just for English?

 

Edit; Also can you get line variance by pressing a little harder or softer on the tip or do you have to consciously change the angle?

 

There is  no pressure variation.

 

I used to use it for both Japanese & English.  However, i bumped the nib against something hard and the magical feel is gone.  I had Mike Masuyama adjust it but still, it isn’t the same.  So mostly i don’t use it these days.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/13/2021 at 2:40 AM, PotbellyPig said:

Can someone who owns the Togi nib fountain pen comment on how well it works with Chinese characters?  I read a post or two that it doesn’t really add much more flair to the writing than a regular fountain pen nib.  I should have included this in my thread about fude nib pens but I forgot.  It really is supposed to be an alternative to the fude nib since the angle of writing changes the line thickness in both nibs.  At least it looks that way to me.


Not sure if you looked but for even “more flair” than a Togi nib is the Sailor Cross Music or Cross Concord.  More flair = more money.  And as discussed they all write like a nail and require you to change writing angles.  If you goal is to practice Chinese characters no fountain pen will work like a brush pen.

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9 hours ago, Pen_Padawan said:


Not sure if you looked but for even “more flair” than a Togi nib is the Sailor Cross Music or Cross Concord.  More flair = more money.  And as discussed they all write like a nail and require you to change writing angles.  If you goal is to practice Chinese characters no fountain pen will work like a brush pen.

I’ve seen some nice examples recently with the Togi.  But you are right that the brush pen is best for full blown calligraphy of kanji characters.  I’m going to see sometime if I can get a Togi on the cheaper side to play around with.  But even the ones produced before the price increase go for a lot of dough.  

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Another option;

Goulet is selling the Sailor Togi for $600 USD.  Years ago I had Mike Masuyama grind me a Togi (architects point) for $100 plus I supplied the nib (Kaweco BBB).  I know he’s super busy now plus not sure about current pricing.  There are several other good nib meisters out there that maybe more affordable too.  

Good luck 

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29 minutes ago, Pen_Padawan said:

Another option;

Goulet is selling the Sailor Togi for $600 USD.  Years ago I had Mike Masuyama grind me a Togi (architects point) for $100 plus I supplied the nib (Kaweco BBB).  I know he’s super busy now plus not sure about current pricing.  There are several other good nib meisters out there that maybe more affordable too.  

Good luck 

How do you find the Togi?  From the videos, it looks easier to use than a Fude nib.  And the output looks better.  At least the kanji I’ve seen.  I’m not an artist so I can’t comment on the drawing aspect.

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My Matsuyama Togi is nice.  I have tested the Sailor Togi several times, they are nice but my go to pen is my Sailor Cross Music.  It has twice the “flair” of a Togi.

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2 hours ago, Pen_Padawan said:

My Matsuyama Togi is nice.  I have tested the Sailor Togi several times, they are nice but my go to pen is my Sailor Cross Music.  It has twice the “flair” of a Togi.

Do you use them for writing Chinese characters? I think the most I would do is get a Tobi nib to try.  The Sailor Cross Music is a very expensive option.  Do you just write mainly normally with these Sailor speciality nibs or do you have to consciously change the angle while writing to get the “flair”? 

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