Need help to ID this Montblanc Monte Rosa model, suggestions for disassembly

[lflsqrl]

I'm having trouble identifying exactly which model this Montblanc Monte Rosa is. Based on searches I think it's an 042 or 412 with a 14K gold nib, but what's throwing me off is that the other images I've seen have the star on the cap and sometimes the clip as well. Pictures are included, but here are the highlights:

 

• Silver metal screw-on cap with MONTBLANC in all caps and Monte Rosa in script at the base
• Gold nib stamped tip to collar: MONT / BLANC / 14C / MONTBLANC / 585 
• Diamond ink windows
• MADE IN GERMANY stamped above the ink window area
• Piston filler
• The tines are bent and the feed looks like something chewed on it. The nib also seems too loose, and I'm wondering if the unit isn't inserted as far as it ought to be.

 

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to remove the piston.

 

It seems like I ought to be able to remove the nib, but neither pulling nor turning seems to work (it's also super gunked-up and I'm still soaking it in water to try to get it clean. Ink and water will come sort of down the feed but the pen will not write. I'm chalking this up to the super dirty feed and I might try to floss between the nib and feed. 

 

Sometimes when filling with water or ink some of it bubbles through and comes out of the screw/piston area, so I think that a seal might be loose somewhere. That, or I need to fill and empty extremely slowly.

 

Thanks for whatever insight you're able to provide.

 

 

ETA: I managed to wiggle the nib out and it looks like the stamp is 342. So I guess the pen model is 342G? There's no G on the stamp but it's a gold nib, so it only makes sense. Still, it doesn't match any of the images I've found online and now I have to figure out how to get the feed out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by lflsqrl
Photo updates, nib stamp

[DrWabbit]

3 hours ago, lflsqrl said:

ETA: I managed to wiggle the nib out and it looks like the stamp is 342. So I guess the pen model is 342G? There's no G on the stamp but it's a gold nib, so it only makes sense. Still, it doesn't match any of the images I've found online and now I have to figure out how to get the feed out.

The nibs on the Monte Rosa 042 model and the 342 model are interchangeable. That ebonite feed design pictured was used from 1957 until 1959/1960 on the 342 model. Though I am fairly certain that your Monte Rosa (judging from the cap and the diamond ink windows) is a later model from the 1960s.

[lflsqrl]

Thanks for the info! So then is this neither an 042 or 342? Or is it something else altogether?

 

I managed to tug out the feed earlier and it just seems like maybe the tip was melted—maybe someone tried to heat set it (assuming I understood your post correctly in that this is an ebonite feed)? Do you think I could get away with trimming it back and extending the groove? Seems like right now there’s a groove that just stops and then starts back but off to the side. 

[lionelc]

feed does look ebonite, grooves on face and shank.  looks like one from the 50s made after the ski slope feed but before the ones made for the wing nibs.  tip is damaged but if you can get the nib and feed in close proximity, unit should still work

[Zarus]

Hi there!

 

The Monte Rosa is one of the Montblanc series I love the most and collect quite seriously. It's fun to collect because they're not too expensive but also because there are so many different versions and variations that, even after having collected them for 20 years, I still discover something new quite often. The flip side of the medal is that it's almost impossible to ever have 'everything' and call the collection complete.

 

Why on earth did Montblanc produce so many different versions of these (and many other) pens? I guess because of the popularity they produced many of these pens for years and made small adjustments frequently. Also, they offloaded production to other factories and they probably didn't all use the same molds. Export was also big and each country seemed to have their own preferences as to how pens should look. I heard many times that Japan for instance loved the fine and extra fine nibs, mostly in gold, and some series like the Montblanc Carrera was actually produced with gold nibs specifically for export to Japan, where all other countries only got steel nibs.

 

About your pen. My best guess would be that it's a Montblanc Monte Rosa 402SG from the late 60's (~1967), where the G stands for Gold and refers to the solid gold nib. If I recall correctly, the S refers to the 'silver' brushed cap.

 

There's actually a good picture of the same (or close to the same) pen in the collector's guide "Collectible Stars" by Jens Rösler and Stefan Wallrafen, although I believe it's falsely labeled as '41':

 

 

It's definitely not a 042 (G) as this was the number used for the Monte Rosa fountain pens that were produced 10 years before, in the mid 50's. Those didn't come with silver brushed caps but instead had a (mostly) brass wavy cap band:

 

 

I've found some leaflets and brochures in my collection that mention your pen:

 

It's not exactly the same pen as it's a slip-on cap instead of a screw-on cap, but I think it's very similar. No model number is mentioned on this old card by the way.

 

This Spanish brochure doesn't have a picture of your model, but instead has a picture of the turquoise 401S/401PS, with the 'concealed' nib instead of the uncovered nib on yours. It does mention the 402S and 402SG on the side where it describes the 402SG as "con plumin descubierto de oro de 14 Q", meaning the "uncovered/bare 14 carat gold nib"

 

The one in this copy of an article in the Scriptum magazine is described as the 41 P. It's slightly different as the nib isn't as 'bare' as in the other photos. I haven't seen this one in real life to be honest.

 

And finally some pictures of pens in my own collection (only the 'modern' ones. I also have some 042's):

 

 

My 402SG, with in this variation a slip-on cap, a montblanc star on the cap top and a slightly different feed.

 

 

Hope you like the info! It was fun to look through some of the stuff I have since it's actually been a while...

 

Feel free to ask any more questions.

 

Mark

[JohnT]

Wow, really nice collection of the 42 range. Great explanation. I have one but was always puzzled at the differences when looking at sales and auctions.

[sansenri]

On 10/13/2021 at 3:26 AM, lflsqrl said:

Thanks for the info! So then is this neither an 042 or 342? Or is it something else altogether?

 

I managed to tug out the feed earlier and it just seems like maybe the tip was melted—maybe someone tried to heat set it (assuming I understood your post correctly in that this is an ebonite feed)? Do you think I could get away with trimming it back and extending the groove? Seems like right now there’s a groove that just stops and then starts back but off to the side. 

 

I'm no MontBlanc expert but, NO, do not extend the groove. The groove at the top must stop before the feed ends.

The ink channel must deliver the ink to the nib not beyond the tip (otherwise it will start dripping...).

What you see from the bottom is not a misalignment of the groove, it's part of the bottom groove (there are two, on the bottom, so it looks misaligned) showing as the tip of the feed is broken.

Yes it is ebonite, and it's not melted, ebonite does not melt, it looks sort of chewed off... (probably ruined by misuse of some tool).

 

 

[CS388]

I would definitely 'tinker' with that feed, to try and get it to work.

It's already trashed, anyway, so what have you got to lose?

 

As lionelc points out, if you can get the nib and feed to sit well together, it should work.

That said, your nib looks like it needs some work, too.

Maybe a bit bent? Causing an unworkable gap between nib and feed.

 

Monta Rosa is a great pen to practice on.

Go gently and slowly and I'd think you'd soon get it writing.

 

Good luck.