Good Quality Fude Nib Fountain Pen?

[PotbellyPig]

This post could have gone in either the Japan or China forums.  Can anyone suggest a good quality fude pen for writing Kanji/Hanzi.  I’m willing to go higher than the $10 cheaper ones but not as high as the $660 Sailor Naginata Fude De Mannen.  I read there were some titanium ones that are good but I don’t read Chinese (just Japanese) and don’t know where to find them.  Thanks!

[A Smug Dill]

Titanium ones? If you're thinking about the black nibs on HongDian (models 1850, 6013, etc.) and Picasso Pimio pens, they're steel nibs. Maybe there's a titanium PVD coating on them to give them the black colour; I don't know. They're not going to have the mechanical properties of titanium nibs manufactured by Bock, though.

 

Spending $20 instead of $10 on a given brand of Chinese fountain en will not get you a (steel) nib of better quality, from what I've seen; and nobody makes better-quality Fude nibs to fit the $50-$100 price range.

 

40 minutes ago, PotbellyPig said:

I don’t read Chinese (just Japanese) and don’t know where to find them.

 

Try searching for “art nib fountain pen” on a Chinese electronic marketplace platform such as AliExpress.

[kulnet]

You may also consider a fountain pen fitted with a jowo or bock nib and then send the nib to a nib meister who will turn your nib into a fude. I just had Kirk Speer at Pen Realm make a fine jowo steel nib into a fude and it is fantastic. It cost $50 to have the nib turned into a fude which when compared to a Sailor is a real bargain. Hope this helps!

[Mech-for-i]

Well it all boils down to what do you do withe that dude, what kind of size you are after ( the nib and the writing , the script and text size )

 

Just like brush you had to pick the right size and the right kind. 

 

 

[como]

Sailor, cheap and good enough.
https://www.amazon.de/Sailor-Fude-Mannen-Kalligraphie-Füllhalter-Federwinkel/dp/B002U0SOLU/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=2J4FTC7N6V45E&dchild=1&keywords=sailor+fude+de+mannen&qid=1634025793&qsid=261-9223991-4300604&sprefix=sailor+fude&sr=8-2&sres=B001MTCF92%2CB002U0SOLU%2CB002WGMOTK%2CB07JGS4Y47%2CB07YBD8GTZ%2CB002B49NXI%2CB07P56XS97%2CB075ZT6TK3%2CB019Z6SYIE%2CB007THB150%2CB08349ZFP2%2CB085RQPY4C%2CB0755972WJ%2CB07BLV9GLS&srpt=WRITING_INSTRUMENT
 

https://www.amazon.de/Sailor-Pinselstifte-Kalligraphie-Füllhalter-40-Grad-11-0127-740/dp/B002WGMOTK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2J4FTC7N6V45E&dchild=1&keywords=sailor+fude+de+mannen&qid=1634025793&qsid=261-9223991-4300604&sprefix=sailor+fude&sr=8-3&sres=B001MTCF92%2CB002U0SOLU%2CB002WGMOTK%2CB07JGS4Y47%2CB07YBD8GTZ%2CB002B49NXI%2CB07P56XS97%2CB075ZT6TK3%2CB019Z6SYIE%2CB007THB150%2CB08349ZFP2%2CB085RQPY4C%2CB0755972WJ%2CB07BLV9GLS&srpt=WRITING_INSTRUMENT

[A Smug Dill]

12 hours ago, Mech-for-i said:

Well it all boils down to what do you do withe that dude,

 

Poetry? An ode to bromance?

 

1 hour ago, como said:

Sailor, cheap and good enough.

 

Sorry, but as much as I like Sailor as a brand and hold its steel and gold nibs in high regard, its models 11-0127-* (and 10-0212-740) Fude de Mannen pens and model 11-0073-120 desk pens are fitted with some of the worst examples of cheap-and-nasty steel nibs (and the pen bodies are pretty poor, too), in my experience.

[AmandaW]

I don't know if you've seen them and include them in the cheapies... but I'll mention it anyway: I have an acrylic Jinhao 51a with an art nib and enjoy it very much. The acrylic is pretty and the hooded nib interesting.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The fude nib Jinhao Sharks write astonishingly well, if you can get around the fact that they look like... sharks.

 

Two to five bucks.

[Nomlenom]

 

I use Jinhao and Hong Dian and I am very satisfied with both.

 

[Pen_Padawan]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:35 AM, PotbellyPig said:

This post could have gone in either the Japan or China forums.  Can anyone suggest a good quality fude pen for writing Kanji/Hanzi.  I’m willing to go higher than the $10 cheaper ones but not as high as the $660 Sailor Naginata Fude De Mannen.  I read there were some titanium ones that are good but I don’t read Chinese (just Japanese) and don’t know where to find them.  Thanks!

Another option is 老山羊鋼筆, not sure what is their English name, search “3952 fountain pen”; http://www.3952pen.com; lots of information on FPN.  This is a very good quality pen.

 

They are a Taiwanese company (not going into the history of Taiwan - China).  They get custom fude titanium nibs from Bock from what I know.  I own the Pilot steel fude pens and tested the 3952 titanium fude, IMHO there is more softness due to the titanium material, but minor.  The over all pen feel, construction quality, Bock titanium fude nib makes it worth the money, in the price range you are looking into IMHO.

[como]

@Pen_Padawan Very interesting company and pens. Thanks for sharing.

[PotbellyPig]

I have been looking at some kanji examples from fude nib fountain pens and they don’t look very good at all.  Do people mainly use the fude nib for drawing?  I see some examples for zoom and togi nibs and they come out much nicer while naturally writing.  I thought the fude nib was specialized for Japanese/Chinese calligraphy but Iam just not seeing any good examples.   People who draw seem to like the nib since you can write fine and broad lines with a single pen.  

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, PotbellyPig said:

I thought the fude nib was specialized for Japanese/Chinese calligraphy but Iam just not seeing any good examples.

 

How about:

Source: 威利文名笔专营店

 

[PotbellyPig]

55 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

How about:

Source: 威利文名笔专营店

 

Thanks, I don’t know Chinese so I was searching for Japanese examples.  It seems you have to put a lot of effort into the Fude nib while some other specialty nibs just add some flair almost naturally.  It may be just my impression though.  

[sansenri]

if cheap fude nibs are sufficiently ok, a number of the Moonman pens are offered with an option to have them with a fude nib instead of the regular fine 0,38 and medium 0,50, usually Jinhao.

 

 

 

 

[Jreugenl]

Something like an Opus 88 with fude regrind from fpnibs maybe?  

https://fpnibs.com/products/opus-88-omar-green-ef-tip

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:30 AM, PotbellyPig said:

I have been looking at some kanji examples from fude nib fountain pens and they don’t look very good at all.

 

From HongDian's marketing:

https://jdvideo.300hu.com/vodtransgzp1251412368/9031868223343649898/v.f30.mp4

 

 

The following was written by Guangdong-based professional calligrapher Liang Hong-En. (According from the text preceding the samples in the marketing images, Liang, who was not known to HongDian at the time, bought a pen and published a review of it with writing samples. On account of the astounding artistry demonstrated, HongDian looked him up, and sought his help and permission to use his work in the brand's marketing collateral.)

 

Source: HongDian flagship store on Jingdong platform

 

Note: HongDian models 515 and 519 are cheap pens. The 519, which is fitted with the ‘art’ or Fude nib, is listed at (what converts to) less than €5.

 

On 10/27/2021 at 2:30 AM, PotbellyPig said:

I see some examples for zoom and togi nibs and they come out much nicer while naturally writing.

 

On 10/27/2021 at 4:55 AM, PotbellyPig said:

It seems you have to put a lot of effort into the Fude nib

 

How much effort do you think it takes to write with a brush so that the output is aesthetically pleasing, then?

 

I'd say it takes less effort than that to use a Fude nib for comparable output; and there's the added bonus of it being on a fountain pen with a self-contained ink reservoir, so the user won't need to keep dipping the brush or pen in an inkwell. That's ‘winning’ on both counts.

 

From the aforementioned marketing collateral:

 

In the image above, the text in the white strip reads: requires a certain level of skill in writing with fountain pens.

 

I feel as if the ongoing conversations about your quest for pens and nibs with which to write kanji are devolving into the equivalent of (some not particularly seasoned hobbyists) searching for ‘flex’ nibs that magically but consistently makes one handwriting in the Latin alphabet look better without a learning curve, diligent practice, and ongoing effort (at least until one has mastered the techniques such that they become perceived as effortless), instead of trying to achieve something that is different, ‘better’ but more challenging than what one is used to, and merely equipping oneself with the required tools ahead of developing the required skill in their use.

[PotbellyPig]

9 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Note: HongDian models 515 and 519 are cheap pens. The 519, which is fitted with the ‘art’ or Fude nib, is listed at (what converts to) less than €5.

 

How much effort do you think it takes to write with a brush so that the output is aesthetically pleasing, then?

 

I'd say it takes less effort than that to use a Fude nib for comparable output; and there's the added bonus of it being on a fountain pen with a self-contained ink reservoir, so the user won't need to keep dipping the brush or pen in an inkwell. That's ‘winning’ on both counts.

 

From the aforementioned marketing collateral:

 

In the image above, the text in the white strip reads: requires a certain level of skill in writing with fountain pens.

 

I feel as if the ongoing conversations about your quest for pens and nibs with which to write kanji are devolving into the equivalent of (some not particularly seasoned hobbyists) searching for ‘flex’ nibs that magically but consistently makes one handwriting in the Latin alphabet look better without a learning curve, diligent practice, and ongoing effort (at least until one has mastered the techniques such that they become perceived as effortless), instead of trying to achieve something that is different, ‘better’ but more challenging than what one is used to, and merely equipping oneself with the required tools ahead of developing the required skill in their use.

Thank you for the examples.  It does indeed take a ton of skill to write with a brush. That’s why I thought a fude nib would be easier if I just wanted to just go with a little fancier output.  The only downside is that while I see a lot of training material for writing with brushes or brush pens,  I don’t see much on using the special fountain pen nibs (fude, togi, concord, etc).  Even a video on writing the ubiquitous 永 would be helpful.  At least I can’t find them in Japanese.  Maybe you are just on your own with this.  Thanks go all your help and suggestions.  I really like my 1911L Sailor EF pen now that I have a ink which fits my writing (Kiwa-Guro).  The feel is like writing with a sharp pointed pencil which is preferable to me when writing kanji.  

[A Smug Dill]

16 hours ago, PotbellyPig said:

I don’t see much on using the special fountain pen nibs (fude, togi, concord, etc).  Even a video on writing the ubiquitous 永 would be helpful.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=美工筆書法&hl=ja&tbm=vid

 

16 hours ago, PotbellyPig said:

At least I can’t find them in Japanese.

I'm afraid I can't help you there.

 

Not that I think you specifically meant it that way, but these days when people say they don't see much (online) on a subject, especially in the context of training and learning, it is usually implied that they're only looking for what is freely accessible, both in terms of not having to pay to access the material, and not requiring some sort of qualification or credential before one can browse the catalogue or index of training articles and videos. That logically narrows down the field of vision by a whole lot; you probably would not have been looking at places such as Udemy for courses and training material on calligraphy. (I haven't.)

[inkstainedruth]

I only have one pen with a fude nib -- a cheap ($5 US) Guanleming pen.  Not sure whether those are still available anyplace -- I got it about 9 years ago from an e-seller, Todd Nussbaum (don't remember the business name any more) sadly no longer in business.  The pen was listed as a Guanleming  193 calligraphy pen, if that helps.

That's the pen I use original formula J Herbin Rouge Hematite in (with the flakes of gold instead of the dust).  It's a squeeze filler (like the hoop filler Parker 21).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth