Ink storage for 1 liter Pelikan bottle

[james3paris]

Is the Pelikan plastic bottle sufficient for long-term storage, 4 to 6 years.  Or am I going to need to look for an alternative  storage, like glass?   If this is the case, does anyone have recommendations?  

[A Smug Dill]

I have one of those one-litre retail bottles. Why wouldn't it be sufficient? Obviously, if you want to completely block out (UV) light, you'd put the Pelikan bottle inside an opaque container (and I used a cardboard carton for that purpose). If you want to cut out all possible interaction with gases that are present in our atmosphere, you can put a thin layer of heavy noble gas above the liquid inside the bottle, before resealing it with the cap. Neither of those things come with Pelikan's retail package, but it's questionable whether such measures are required to keep the ink usable for four to six years. After all, it's cheap ink made even cheaper (per millilitre) by buying it in a large bottle; how far do you want to go to protect it extraordinarily?

[Dione]

11 hours ago, james3paris said:

Is the Pelikan plastic bottle sufficient for long-term storage, 4 to 6 years.  Or am I going to need to look for an alternative  storage, like glass?   If this is the case, does anyone have recommendations?  

Don't see why it's current manufacturer's bottle shouldn't be sufficient for long-term storage. Pelikan made it as a large bottle and might expect it would last for some length of time so assume they think it's OK. Probably better to keep it in a dark place if it originally came in a box that is no longer present.

[james3paris]

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/360465-how-long-will-a-liter-of-ink-stay-good/page/2/#comments

I keep it in a dark place. 

 

Finally, I found a thread on this topic and yes, there are issues with long-term storage in a plastic container.   

[A Smug Dill]

15 minutes ago, james3paris said:

Finally, I found a thread on this topic and yes, there are issues with long-term storage in a plastic container.   

 

Believe what you will. As someone who has also bought the same product, my view is still that the manufacturer's bottle is sufficient if your target or expectation is for the one litre of ink to last up to six years with actual, continual usage.

[RJS]

Not all plastic is made the same. Also, if the major gripe people have with plastic is that it allows a bit of evaporation to occur, that's really not a big deal. Don't worry about it.

[bunnspecial]

Reading, it seems that the bottle is likely HDPE.

 

In the lab, I avoid HDPE bottles where possible for a couple of reasons. One is that the plastic is permeable enough to allow water out and oxygen in, neither of which is great. The other is that I've seen HDPE bottles that have held acidic solutions  quite literally shatter when handled when they're a few years old.

 

My inclination would be to transfer to glass...

[A Smug Dill]

46 minutes ago, RJS said:

Also, if the major gripe people have with plastic is that it allows a bit of evaporation to occur, that's really not a big deal.

 

Furthermore, even with the now (or retrospectively) oh-so-precious Parker Penman Sapphire ink, some folks have reported with chagrin seeing reduction in volume in unopened glass bottles as supplied twenty years ago. Thus the target of ‘sufficiently’ long matters. No point in worrying about a ten-year or twenty-year lifespan, if one's usage rate is expected to be 5±1 years for one litre, and so has expected (and is comfortable with the idea) that the utiliy or value, in return for the price outlaid for a bottle, will be fully consumed or extinguished within six years, and will have to reinvest after that.

[Dione]

The amount of ink you might lose when transferring it from it's original bottle to another bottle is probably equivalent to the amount that might evaporate over several years. You will leave some in the bottom of the plastic bottle and some on the funnel during the transfer time from original bottle a to new bottle b. How do you know 100% you won't add any bugs from the air or the funnel or inside the new bottle that wouldn't be inside the ink but for the swap over? Also, can you guarantee 100% that you won't spill any ink during this task? Some risks don't need taking. Your choice at the end of the day but the answer to your first question is yes.

[RJS]

10 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Furthermore, even with the now (or retrospectively) oh-so-precious Parker Penman Sapphire ink, some folks have reported with chagrin seeing reduction in volume in unopened glass bottles as supplied twenty years ago. Thus the target of ‘sufficiently’ long matters. No point in worrying about a ten-year or twenty-year lifespan, if one's usage rate is expected to be 5±1 years for one litre, and so has expected (and is comfortable with the idea) that the utiliy or value, in return for the price outlaid for a bottle, will be fully consumed or extinguished within six years, and will have to reinvest after that.

Exactly. The amount that'll vanish over 6 years will be negligible. I have cartridges that are 30+ years old that are still perfectly usable, even if they do seem a tad darker now. It's not like you're keeping it for posterity.

[Licue]

4 hours ago, RJS said:

Exactly. The amount that'll vanish over 6 years will be negligible. I have cartridges that are 30+ years old that are still perfectly usable, even if they do seem a tad darker now. It's not like you're keeping it for posterity.

Can't really confirm this experience.

Most/a lot of my older cartridges show significant evaporation, and some even dried out completely.

[dhanks]

On 10/7/2021 at 11:34 PM, james3paris said:

Is the Pelikan plastic bottle sufficient for long-term storage, 4 to 6 years.  Or am I going to need to look for an alternative  storage, like glass?   If this is the case, does anyone have recommendations?  

 

If it's that big of a concern for you, buy it in smaller bottles and save yourself the anguish.

 

Rumpole

[RJS]

6 hours ago, Licue said:

Can't really confirm this experience.

Most/a lot of my older cartridges show significant evaporation, and some even dried out completely.

How long did it take your cartridges to dry out completely? My carts that survived 30 years are all Parker and Pilot. I left them in my desk at my parents house in England, and they remain there. When I visited I tried a couple out of curiosity, and they were no more than a bit darker than I think they should be. They weren't anywhere near close to empty.

[A Smug Dill]

8 hours ago, dhanks said:

If it's that big of a concern for you, buy it in smaller bottles and save yourself the anguish.

 

👍

 

Just-in-time purchasing for the win!

[Noihvo]

10 hours ago, RJS said:

How long did it take your cartridges to dry out completely? My carts that survived 30 years are all Parker and Pilot. I left them in my desk at my parents house in England, and they remain there. When I visited I tried a couple out of curiosity, and they were no more than a bit darker than I think they should be. They weren't anywhere near close to empty.

[Licue]

17 hours ago, RJS said:

How long did it take your cartridges to dry out completely? My carts that survived 30 years are all Parker and Pilot. I left them in my desk at my parents house in England, and they remain there. When I visited I tried a couple out of curiosity, and they were no more than a bit darker than I think they should be. They weren't anywhere near close to empty.

I looked, but I can't find the dried out ones unfortunately 🙁 maybe I've thrown them out.

 

Here are some others with significant evaporation tho: 

 

 

With the Geha it's difficult to see, but there's hardly any liquid left.

 

Not sure how old they are, I guess somewhere between 20 and 35 years. The Pelikan cartridge box has "W.-Germany" on the back, so that one should be from before 1990.

[Karmachanic]

16 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

👍

 

Just-in-time purchasing for the win!

 

Until the just-in-time supply chain breaks.  Uh oh 😰

[RJS]

6 hours ago, Licue said:

I looked, but I can't find the dried out ones unfortunately 🙁 maybe I've thrown them out.

 

Here are some others with significant evaporation tho: 

 

 

With the Geha it's difficult to see, but there's hardly any liquid left.

 

Not sure how old they are, I guess somewhere between 20 and 35 years. The Pelikan cartridge box has "W.-Germany" on the back, so that one should be from before 1990.

Wow! That's some serious evaporation! I wonder if winder atmospheric factors play a role? My parents are elderly and always cold and spend a lot to keep the temperature in their house consistent all year round, which I suspect doesn't hurt. Maybe as @Noihvotheorised, Pilot and Parker also use a higher quality plastic (or I should say "did" because they've likely fiddled with the composition of the plastic since 1990...).

[bunnspecial]

I picked up a couple of boxes of what I'd guess are 70s or 80s Waterman cartridges not too long ago, and they all show nothing but just a very few drops of liquid in them. I'll try to photograph them tomorrow.

 

I also remember finding a nice stash of the old style Skrip cartridges in an antique shop a few years ago and being excited because there were a few dozen in good colors, but they were all dry as a bone.

[IanP2303]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:45 PM, A Smug Dill said:

I have one of those one-litre retail bottles. Why wouldn't it be sufficient? Obviously, if you want to completely block out (UV) light, you'd put the Pelikan bottle inside an opaque container (and I used a cardboard carton for that purpose). If you want to cut out all possible interaction with gases that are present in our atmosphere, you can put a thin layer of heavy noble gas above the liquid inside the bottle, before resealing it with the cap. Neither of those things come with Pelikan's retail package, but it's questionable whether such measures are required to keep the ink usable for four to six years. After all, it's cheap ink made even cheaper (per millilitre) by buying it in a large bottle; how far do you want to go to protect it extraordinarily?

Is Pelikan ink cheap and bad?