NOS Waterman Le Man 200 FP v L’Etalon

[kavanagh]

Dear FPN Colleagues,

 

I managed to get a NOS Waterman Le Man 200 with a medium nib for $210 US.

I have notice that with the cap off, and holding the pen from its body and swaying from side to side, there is very slight ‘play‘ / movement between the threads of the front nib section and body, which has surprised me. I have tightened the body and nib section, but you can still feel the slight play in the threads. Is this normal / common for Man 200’s or something to worry about ?. It’s Waterman’s high end model, so not sure if this is a quality issue or if it’s common to this model.

I’m starting to be concerned, that holding the nib section between my fingers and having the body rest in the gap between my plain and thumb, the ‘play’ might affect its writing performance. Shall I return it and get a Waterman L’Etalon ? ( or am I being overly fussy ). 
Also, if you had to choose between a Man 200 or L’Etalon ?. Which one would you go for and why?.

Thank you.

 

 

[jchch1950]

It is not normal. The Le Man 200 were usually made to close tolerances. There must be an o ring that limite any play between the barrel and the section. I am not in my home so I can't verify this and I stand to be corrected.

[kavanagh]

3 hours ago, jchch1950 said:

It is not normal. The Le Man 200 were usually made to close tolerances. There must be an o ring that limite any play between the barrel and the section. I am not in my home so I can't verify this and I stand to be corrected.

 

Dear jchch1950 Thank you for your response

 

1) I have attached some pictures - I presume the O ring looks okay ? ( top picture ).

2) I have also noticed some gold plating loss underneath one of the tines .

 

Perhaps I did not screw the nib section in to the body tight enough - so I tightened it just a little more until I felt resistance from the black rubber seal (third picture down from the top). Now I don't feel any 'play'.

The cap still has some very slight play but its okay.

 

 

[senzen]

My Man 100 bought new which as far as I understand has a very close design to the man 200 has always had play in the cap; I just put a little bit of masking tape and it helped, even though it's not something I worry about too much (I would if ink went darker quickly for instance). Watch out for the nib collar, they rust easily.

 

I've never tried an Étalon, it's a very different aesthetic, I would take a look at the Liaison.

 

[manolo]

The last picture in this thread reveals something is not OK, there is gap between body and section that should not be there. Check pictures in the internet. Maybe you should tighten more, or maybe there is some issue (¿a roller body with a fountain pen section?) that prevents full screwing.

 

Also, I have never seen that loss of plating under a 200's nib, it is pretty strange, the ring nearest to the nib in the section is the part that usually losses plating before all the others. So, your 200 is not "NOS".

 

As for trying other models, the Man 200s and 100s are my preferred watermans, so cannot recommend any other. Well, second best would be Carene or Expert (the Expert being a lower tier model, but I like it quite much).

[kavanagh]

4 hours ago, manolo said:

Also, I have never seen that loss of plating under a 200's nib, it is pretty strange, the ring nearest to the nib in the section is the part that usually losses plating before all the others

manolo, what could cause that kind of plating loss under one of the tines ?.
 

4 hours ago, manolo said:

The last picture in this thread reveals something is not OK, there is gap between body and section that should not be there. Check pictures in the internet. Maybe you should tighten more, or maybe there is some issue

I have checked pens on fleabay and the internet, and you are right - there should not be a gap, unless I am not screwing it all the way in.... I feel resistance and that’s why I stopped.

[manolo]

I don't know what can cause that loss of plating, I have never seen something similar. But if the seller told you the pen is NOS, he/she should have warned you about this. Waterman 200 are highest-quality pen, plating should not fall easily.

Regarding the tightening, I have some 200s that are quite tight, so you have to apply a big force to close them. This happens in the special "caviar" editions, blue and grey, and I guess it might be because the bodys might come from the roller pens, but no confirmation about it. Also, these special editions have a metal ring right in the place where your gap is, I wonder if you could install one of those rings to close that gap. Again, check images in google.

Regards.

[kavanagh]

16 hours ago, manolo said:

But if the seller told you the pen is NOS, he/she should have warned you about this. Waterman 200 are highest-quality pen, plating should not fall easily.

manolo, he auctioned it as new, but it’s actually a showroom / demonstrator pen from a department store that had shut - so arguably as good as NOS.

I think it’s still a bargain price at $210.

I tightened the section some more, and presto, it worked- no more gap.

Do you think I should still complain about the slight plating loss under one of the tines ?.

[manolo]

Well, good news then. Whether you should complain or not, that's your decision, writing will not be affected, and behind the nib only you will know it's there. Price was neither bad nor exceptionally good. I really love Watermans 200 and 100, very good writers and very comfortable.

[Bo Bo Olson]

In my 200 is 18K, would expect 18K as normal in 18 K is gold and 14 k not in France...on Penboard.de there are many Waterman 100-200's in 18k.....and not gold plated for a flagship.  (There are a couple gold plated steel nibs on lesser Waterman.)

 

I've only used my 200 once, and it was perfect. I did find my Waterman F of that era (late '80's-early '90's) is like reputed a narrow nib. It's F is as narrow as my Pelikan 200's EF.

[manolo]

On 10/9/2021 at 2:03 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

In my 200 is 18K, would expect 18K as normal in 18 K is gold and 14 k not in France...on Penboard.de there are many Waterman 100-200's in 18k.....and not gold plated for a flagship.  (There are a couple gold plated steel nibs on lesser Waterman.)

 

I've only used my 200 once, and it was perfect. I did find my Waterman F of that era (late '80's-early '90's) is like reputed a narrow nib. It's F is as narrow as my Pelikan 200's EF.

 

I have checked my 200s and 100s and all of them have "18k" stamped on their nibs, Are there any of these with 14k nib? Never heard of that.

[kavanagh]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:45 AM, manolo said:

Price was neither bad nor exceptionally good

manolo, what would be an exceptionally good price for this pen ?

[aggoo]

These pens do need the sections screwing into the barrel firmly, and they have a rubber o-ring, which is what gives the resistance when you are screwing it on.  Keep going until it won't go any further, which I think you have discovered.

These are very high quality pens, and amongst the best made in the 80s/90s for build quality and nib quality, at least in my opinion.  The nib is a size 5, and is actually interchangeable with the older Gentleman model, although that pen has a single tone nib, rather than 2-tone.

The nibs on the MAN 100 did actually come in 14K in their earliest format, which was in the 1960s MAN or Strong, as it is sometimes called.  I have 3 of these nibs in 14K, but they are bigger than the nib on the MAN 200.

 

To your question regarding the MAN vs L'Etalon, I'd suggest the MAN is quite superior in every way.  It's more robust and has a nicer nib. The L'Etalon is lacquer over brass, which picks up scratches quite easily, and it doesn't feel as well made.  The nibs aren't as buttery, and the nib engraving is pretty shallow.  To give some perspective, the nib on the L'Etalon has been repurposed and restamped to fit the modern version of the Parker Premier, which is a mid-range pen and not overly popular, whereas the nib from the MAN series went on to fit the flagship Waterman Exception and even the Cartier Roadster. 

 

 

[Aysedasi]

Spam reported.  

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thank you, I didn't think to report it....in we really don't get much here and I don't hang out in spamhalls.