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Sailor Pro Gear Fountain Pen


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8 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Yes.

Thanks.  Is it normal when writing Chinese characters to add or subtract some pressure to get some line variation? Or do you do it only when you are specifically doing calligraphy?  I know you wrote in the other thread for the togi nib that during normal writing, you don’t change the writing angle mid character.  I’m sorry for all the kanji/hanzi newbie questions.  You have been a great help!

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39 minutes ago, PotbellyPig said:

Is it normal when writing Chinese characters to add or subtract some pressure to get some line variation?

 

It's normal for me.

40 minutes ago, PotbellyPig said:

Or do you do it only when you are specifically doing calligraphy?

 

No. It takes immense conscious effort to not allow the downward pressure to increase as I ‘draw’ the straight downward (shù) stroke, especially if I'm intending to finish it with a small hook or uptick (gōu in Chinese; hane in Japanese) in ‘normal’ or casual writing, and even then I generally fail to do so perfectly.

 

Try casually writing out the English alphabet in uppercase. Do you not vary the pressure when your write (or print, or draw) the letters R and W? Do you not accelerate and decelerate (which is usually accompanied by variation in downward pressure, as well as force sideways) when you write the letters C and S?

 

What about writing the hiragana characters き and れ? How about the character り with an actual ‘pen lift’ (causing the left and right halves of the character to be separate), or even without (such that there is a hairline like a strand of a spider's web joining the two halves)?

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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15 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

The first post is exactly what I wanted to see!  I am going to try a Sailor EF nib first, probably the one that goes with a 1911L or a full size professional gear.  I can only wish I I can learn to write as neatly as you.  You write so small with the fine and extra fine nibs and it is still very beautiful.  I just hope I will like the feedback on a Sailor EF.  I have gotten used to writing kanji with a mechanical pencil with 0.3mm HB lead so I like pencil like feedback and have gotten used to it.  I have read a Sailor nibs feedback, especially the F and EF, is akin to a good sharp pencil.

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I received a 1911L EF Sailor fountain pen.  I was thinking of getting a full size Pro Gear but the one I wanted wasn’t in stock from a place that accepts returns.  First thing I noticed is that I couldn’t go with the smaller version of the pen.  It isn’t very large even though it is the large version.  But it’s comfortable.  I put one of the standard black cartridges in that I bought (The USA paper box version so I think it is jentile ink.).  The pen writes wetter than a Pilot Kakuno EF so the lines come out darker.  But I think that is usually the case comparing gold and steel nibs.  I’m not bothered by the feedback on Rhodia paper.  Overall it seem to write good.

 

If I want a dryer ink,  in order to get an even slightly finer line, do any of the other sailor inks write dryer?  Or do I have to go with a different company?  I can live with the way it is but I am just curious.  Thanks!

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13 hours ago, PotbellyPig said:

I put one of the standard black cartridges in that I bought [...] The pen writes wetter than a Pilot Kakuno EF so the lines come out darker.

 

If I want a dryer ink,  in order to get an even slightly finer line, do any of the other sailor inks write dryer?  Or do I have to go with a different company?

Sailors are generally tuned a bit wetter than Pilots, but Sailor's black ink certainly adds to the line width by a considerable margin; I just put one into my Pro Gear and wrote on a Rhodia pad to check. Most of Sailor's inks outside of some colourful exceptions in the Manyo and Studio lines write nice and flowy, but they don't spread out anywhere near as much as the black cartridge ink does("wet/dry" are ambiguous terms). If you want a smooth black ink that doesn't spread out into the paper as much to make the line fatter, I can recommend Aurora Black or Herbin Perle Noire; those don't have the heavy phenol biocide smell to them like the Japanese manfacturers' standard inks do either.

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3 minutes ago, Harold said:

Sailors are generally tuned a bit wetter than Pilots, but Sailor's black ink certainly adds to the line width by a considerable margin; I just put one into my Pro Gear and wrote on a Rhodia pad to check. Most of Sailor's inks outside of some colourful exceptions in the Manyo and Studio lines write nice and flowy, but they don't spread out anywhere near as much as the black cartridge ink does("wet/dry" are ambiguous terms). If you want a smooth black ink that doesn't spread out into the paper as much to make the line fatter, I can recommend Aurora Black or Herbin Perle Noire; those don't have the heavy phenol biocide smell to them like the Japanese manfacturers' standard inks do either.

I am a beginner and would rather use cartridges but I will keep those inks in mind when I get more comfortable handling the pen.  Do the other black cartridges, the pigmented one and I think the other one is called shikitori, not spread out as much as the standard Sailor cartridge (Jentile I believe)?  The line width increase isn’t tremendous, but it’s a pinch more than what I was expecting.  The pen writes very nicely.

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14 minutes ago, PotbellyPig said:

I am a beginner and would rather use cartridges but I will keep those inks in mind when I get more comfortable handling the pen.  Do the other black cartridges, the pigmented one and I think the other one is called shikitori, not spread out as much as the standard Sailor cartridge (Jentile I believe)?  The line width increase isn’t tremendous, but it’s a pinch more than what I was expecting.  The pen writes very nicely.

Yeah, when you're buying a Japanese extra fine, I can imagine that you actually wanted something very fine and the extra line width from the ink is messing with that a little bit. I'm not very familiar with Sailor's inks outside of the aforementioned Manyo and Ink Studio lines outside of writing a couple lines with other people's pens here and there, so hopefully someone else can weigh in with their experiences. I do believe the Sailor Black, Blue, Blue-black and Red are all Jentle inks. The two Shikiori inks I've tried certainly didn't spread in the paper as much as Sailor Black does, but they're rather expensive if I remember correctly.

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5 hours ago, Harold said:

Aurora Black or Herbin Perle Noire

So the line width should reduce a bit if I use these?  I have a converter but have to learn how to use it.  Do I need to flush the pen first under the tap before changing the ink?  I was using a standard cartridge.


And if anyone can confirm whether the Sailor pigmented black ink has the same issue with spreading out the line like the standard black in cartridge?  Also is Noodler’s Black also a good choice? That’s what they use at the Nib Nook.  Any other recommendations would be  appreciated.

 

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3 hours ago, PotbellyPig said:

So the line width should reduce a bit if I use these?  I have a converter but have to learn how to use it.  Do I need to flush the pen first under the tap before changing the ink?  I was using a standard cartridge.


And if anyone can confirm whether the Sailor pigmented black ink has the same issue with spreading out the line like the standard black in cartridge?  Also is Noodler’s Black also a good choice? That’s what they use at the Nib Nook.  Any other recommendations would be  appreciated.

 

Yes, neither of those inks spread as much on Rhodia as the Sailor Black cartridges do and they are nice, dark blacks. I don't have any Noodler's Black to compare directly, but it didn't immediately stand out to me in the past as making the line thicker compared to other inks.

 

Basically, whenever you change inks you need to get the old ink out of your feed so it doesn't mix colours with whatever ink you're putting in next. A great way to do that is to buy a cheap bulb syringe from a pharmacy/drug store and stick it in the back of the grip section(you may have to cut off the top of the syringe with a knife to make it fit snuggly in the back of the grip). Then you can just blast water through the feed while you hold onto the grip so it doesn't shoot off and it will be practically spotless inside. Holding it under the tap works well enough as well, it just takes a bit more time and effort to get all the ink out of the nooks and crannies of the feed because it will keep leeching out slowly every time you flush water through it, so you have to do it over and over again with some time between rinses. It doesn't have to be spotless, but you're just trying to get 95% of it out unless you're using a high maintenance ink with crazy properties.

 

After cleaning, you just stick the converter in the grip as you would a cartridge and screw the piston down, submerge the nib and feed all the way down to where they meet the grip section(that is where the filler hole is on most pens), and suck up the ink with your converter. It helps to draw up and expel ink two or three times if you want to get a full fill; there is a lot of air in the feed that will be sucked into the converter the first time you try to suck up ink. Then you just wipe off any ink that may be on the grip with a tissue and you're good to go.

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15 minutes ago, Harold said:

Yes, neither of those inks spread as much on Rhodia as the Sailor Black cartridges do and they are nice, dark blacks. I don't have any Noodler's Black to compare directly, but it didn't immediately stand out to me in the past as making the line thicker compared to other inks.

 

Basically, whenever you change inks you need to get the old ink out of your feed so it doesn't mix colours with whatever ink you're putting in next. A great way to do that is to buy a cheap bulb syringe from a pharmacy/drug store and stick it in the back of the grip section(you may have to cut off the top of the syringe with a knife to make it fit snuggly in the back of the grip). Then you can just blast water through the feed while you hold onto the grip so it doesn't shoot off and it will be practically spotless inside. Holding it under the tap works well enough as well, it just takes a bit more time and effort to get all the ink out of the nooks and crannies of the feed because it will keep leeching out slowly every time you flush water through it, so you have to do it over and over again with some time between rinses. It doesn't have to be spotless, but you're just trying to get 95% of it out unless you're using a high maintenance ink with crazy properties.

 

After cleaning, you just stick the converter in the grip as you would a cartridge and screw the piston down, submerge the nib and feed all the way down to where they meet the grip section(that is where the filler hole is on most pens), and suck up the ink with your converter. It helps to draw up and expel ink two or three times if you want to get a full fill; there is a lot of air in the feed that will be sucked into the converter the first time you try to suck up ink. Then you just wipe off any ink that may be on the grip with a tissue and you're good to go.

I’m going to take out the black Sailor Cartridge I put in my pen yesterday and replace it with a Kiwa-Guro one.  Since I’m going from black to black ink, can I just rinse the nib section under the tap until the black color goes away?  I’m not too skilled with fountain pen maintenance and I don’t have any tools yet? Will this be sufficient?  The water based ink cartridge was only in the pen for 2 days.  

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26 minutes ago, PotbellyPig said:

I’m going to take out the black Sailor Cartridge I put in my pen yesterday and replace it with a Kiwa-Guro one.  Since I’m going from black to black ink, can I just rinse the nib section under the tap until the black color goes away?  I’m not too skilled with fountain pen maintenance and I don’t have any tools yet? Will this be sufficient?  The water based ink cartridge was only in the pen for 2 days.  

Absolutely, it'll be fine. The pigmented inks can require a bit more maintenance(they have actual pigment particles in them, not just dye), so the Kiwaguro might take a bit longer to clean out afterwards. You can always buy a bulb syringe later if you feel like you need it, they only cost a couple bucks and they're available everywhere.

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27 minutes ago, Harold said:

Absolutely, it'll be fine. The pigmented inks can require a bit more maintenance(they have actual pigment particles in them, not just dye), so the Kiwaguro might take a bit longer to clean out afterwards. You can always buy a bulb syringe later if you feel like you need it, they only cost a couple bucks and they're available everywhere.

Thanks.  Do you happen to have any experience with the Platinum standard water based ink in their cartridges as well?  I’m thinking that if I get a Platinum with a UEF nib, I should jump directly to the Platinum Carbon Pigment cartridges.  But I am not sure if the regular Platinum cartridges have line spread issues or if the Carbon pigment cartridges work well with the UEF because of the limited ink flow through such a small nib.

 

Edit: This was just answered in the other thread.  The Carbon ink tends to spread line width.

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On 10/9/2021 at 3:57 AM, PotbellyPig said:

I just ordered a Sailor Pro Gear Fine (Black with gold trim).

 

On 10/10/2021 at 3:20 AM, PotbellyPig said:

I like Goulet Pens but they don’t have the basic large Pro Gear black with either gold trim or silver trim.

 

On 10/16/2021 at 12:09 PM, PotbellyPig said:

I received a 1911L EF Sailor fountain pen.  I was thinking of getting a full size Pro Gear but the one I wanted wasn’t in stock from a place that accepts returns.

 

Does it mean you cancelled the order to which you referred in the first of the posts quoted above?

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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41 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

 

 

Does it mean you cancelled the order to which you referred in the first of the posts quoted above?

Yes, I cancelled the Pro Gear Fine and bought a 1911L EF.

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On 10/16/2021 at 10:58 AM, Harold said:

Sailors are generally tuned a bit wetter than Pilots, but Sailor's black ink certainly adds to the line width by a considerable margin; I just put one into my Pro Gear and wrote on a Rhodia pad to check. Most of Sailor's inks outside of some colourful exceptions in the Manyo and Studio lines write nice and flowy, but they don't spread out anywhere near as much as the black cartridge ink does("wet/dry" are ambiguous terms). If you want a smooth black ink that doesn't spread out into the paper as much to make the line fatter, I can recommend Aurora Black or Herbin Perle Noire; those don't have the heavy phenol biocide smell to them like the Japanese manfacturers' standard inks do either.

When you tried out the Sailor black ink and saw line spread with your pro gear, what size nib were you using on the Sailor?

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1 hour ago, PotbellyPig said:

When you tried out the Sailor black ink and saw line spread with your pro gear, what size nib were you using on the Sailor?

I tried with a zoom nib at maximum writing angle at the time(that puts down about a medium line), but I've since cleaned my 1911L with a fine in it and put the cartridge in that pen; it looks noticeably wider with Sailor Black than with the Pilot Iroshizuku Syo-ro I had in there before I cleaned it. It's certainly a lot worse when I write quickly with a heavy hand than when I write slowly and deliberately.

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7 hours ago, Harold said:

I tried with a zoom nib at maximum writing angle at the time(that puts down about a medium line), but I've since cleaned my 1911L with a fine in it and put the cartridge in that pen; it looks noticeably wider with Sailor Black than with the Pilot Iroshizuku Syo-ro I had in there before I cleaned it. It's certainly a lot worse when I write quickly with a heavy hand than when I write slowly and deliberately.

I ordered the Kiwa-Guro cartridges.  I use Rhodia paper too.  I’ll be satisfied if there is just a miniscule less line spread.  I’m guessing it would be because this pigment ink is a little drier than the water based dye ink.  

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12 hours ago, PotbellyPig said:

...water based dye ink.  

 

 

just FYI, all fountain pen inks are water based

the differences are in the types of colorant: if I understand correctly, dye is a liquid that has its colorant fully in solution, whereas pigment has colored particles in suspension.

either type can cause flow or clogging issues if the colorant density is too high

on top of the water and colorant, most inks also contain at least trace amounts of fungal inhibitors and flow/viscosity control additives

 

drawing inks like India, Sumi and most opaque colored inks can *also* contain shellac, gelatin, or other binders that increase permanence (and gum up, or even melt FP feeds)

David-

 

So many restoration projects...

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As a follow up, I put a Kiwa-Guro ink cartridge in my Sailor EF and it made a substantial improvement in keeping the lines fine on Rhodia paper.   There was a good amount of line width spread going on with the standard Sailor Black ink cartridges.   Also the Kiwa-Kuro ink doesn’t bleed through to the reverse side of the page.  Overall it is a great improvement.

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