Friction and traction between fingers and fountain pen materials

[Paul-in-SF]

I have noticed that, counter-intuitively to me, matte surface gripping sections such as that possessed by the Lamy 2000 or the new Pininfarina Segno PF Two, are actually more difficult for me to get a grip on and hold comfortably than smooth metal (and smooth plastic). I should also note that my skin is a little on the dry side (vs. oily) which could make a difference. This post is in no way intended as a complaint against specific pens or even against specific material treatments. Pen makers make what they think will sell, I buy what I want to buy, and I learn as I go.

 

So: when I slide a finger over a smooth resin or acrylic, for example, it moves smoothly but there is a slight drag. It is this slight drag (a small amount of friction) that gives the fingers traction on the pen and allows me to write comfortably. I can hold the pen without effort, I don't have to "grip" it, it's not going to slide around while I'm writing. When I slide a finger over smooth metal, there is also some drag, maybe a little more than with the plastic. I don't think my fingers usually sweat much, so this doesn't cause me much of a problem. But when I slide a finger over a matte metal (or matte plastic, like the rest of the Lamy 2000) there is no drag at all, the matte surface greatly reduces this friction element. For me, this makes the pen feel insecure in my grip, sometimes it feels like it wants to rotate in my hand. I have to pay more attention to hanging onto the pen, and that makes the writing experience less pleasant.

 

I write hoping to read whether my perceptions have also struck other people on this board, or if their perceptions are markedly different from mine. I think I only have these two pens that I mentioned that have a matte metal gripping section, so it's not a large sample. Buying and using the second pen has helped me to understand why the first pen, the Lamy, has felt so awkward in my hand that I didn't want to use it. It is the matte surface. 

[eciton]

Oh sure, it's like sliding your fingers down smooth window glass -- in the right circumstances, they'll grip and squeak as you break traction. Or like holding a drinking glass -- it's not slippery at all unless it's wet with condensation. You're definitely not the only one to find that, at least when dry, a shiny smooth surface offers great traction. And there are pens, eg from Faber-Castell/Graf, Lamy Studio, etc, that use shiny metal for their sections for this reason. Of course, then there are folks who find that shiny metal sections are slippery, probably because their hands are more oily than yours.

[catbert]

I also find matte or slightly textured pens a bit less secure in hand than shiny ones. Maybe something to do with dry skin and reduced surface contact? On the other hand, some shiny plastic (and to a lesser extent metal) can feel too grippy. For some reason, ebonite and especially celluloid feel just right. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have no metal sections; smooth or matt.

As noobie, many complained about smooth metal sections....so I stayed far away.

[Paul-in-SF]

2 hours ago, catbert said:

Maybe something to do with dry skin and reduced surface contact?

 

I agree that reduced surface contact must be a factor.

 

There are better ways, I think, to break up a smooth surface (if that's what you want to do) without losing the user's ability to control the pen. I have a Tactile Turn Gist in resin where the entire pen surface, including the section, is covered with tiny concentric rings carved into the surface. This also reduces surface contact, but not randomly, and because the rings are concentric the fingers have something to push/pull against. 

 

2 hours ago, catbert said:

For some reason, ebonite and especially celluloid feel just right. 

I don't seem to feel much difference between celluloid and other plastics. But I agree about ebonite, and also hard rubber. 

[Pensei]

Same for me. I have a GvFC with metal section that is one of my favorite pens. 

[SoulSamurai]

I find metal sections almost unuseable; the pens almost seem to twist and turn in my hand, making nib alignment to the page difficult. I think the section diameter might be a factor too though.

[Bristol24]

17 hours ago, catbert said:

I also find matte or slightly textured pens a bit less secure in hand than shiny ones. Maybe something to do with dry skin and reduced surface contact? On the other hand, some shiny plastic (and to a lesser extent metal) can feel too grippy. For some reason, ebonite and especially celluloid feel just right. 

I agree.  I would add hard rubber to ebonite and celluloid as feeling just right but the truth is I've not given thought on this until now but I will in the future.  I have to confess that I've experienced rare times when a favorite pen somehow feels different or, perhaps, less comfortable to hold or control.  I've wondered if humidity could be a factor. I love my Parker 51s but there have been rare, odd times when they have felt less comfortable to me but I couldn't seem to understand why.  I could just never quite (here it comes) put my finger on it.

 

Cliff

[bunnspecial]

19 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

I don't seem to feel much difference between celluloid and other plastics. But I agree about ebonite, and also hard rubber.

 

I write with celluloid pens quite often, and blindfolded my nose would probably tell me more about which material is which than my fingers.

 

With that said, some acrylics do have a different sort of feel. MB resin feels very "glassy" to me and is quite slick, while the modern Duofold is hard to describe but definitely feels different.

 

Are hard rubber and ebonite not the same thing? I'm asking that genuinely-I tend to refer to pens by what the maker calls them(my one Ranga is ebonite, my Parkers are Hard Rubber) but have always thought that the two materials were one in the same.

 

As a side note, how do you feel about sections of smooth plastic with larger finger "ridges" like the Parker 75?

[Paul-in-SF]

3 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

As a side note, how do you feel about sections of smooth plastic with larger finger "ridges" like the Parker 75?

 

Sorry, I don't think I've ever used one, so I could only guess how I would like them from looking at photos. 

[catbert]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:57 PM, Paul-in-SF said:

I agree that reduced surface contact must be a factor.

 

There are better ways, I think, to break up a smooth surface (if that's what you want to do) without losing the user's ability to control the pen. I have a Tactile Turn Gist in resin where the entire pen surface, including the section, is covered with tiny concentric rings carved into the surface. This also reduces surface contact, but not randomly, and because the rings are concentric the fingers have something to push/pull against. 

 

I don't seem to feel much difference between celluloid and other plastics. But I agree about ebonite, and also hard rubber. 

I have a Tactile Turn ballpoint — heresy, I know — and the concentric rings work as advertised, though I suspect the weight (it's a copper pen) is the main reason it stays put in hand. Side note: doesn't Circulon cookware market a similar finish as the ultimate non-stick?

 

To me, celluloid has an almost soapy or oily surface quality — smooth without being too slippery or too grippy.

 

On 9/30/2021 at 8:30 AM, bunnspecial said:

... As a side note, how do you feel about sections of smooth plastic with larger finger "ridges" like the Parker 75?

I find the facets more significant than the ridges. It may be the most comfortable pen I own.

[bunnspecial]

2 hours ago, catbert said:

I have a Tactile Turn ballpoint — heresy, I know — and the concentric rings work as advertised, though I suspect the weight (it's a copper pen) is the main reason it stays put in hand. Side note: doesn't Circulon cookware market a similar finish as the ultimate non-stick?

 

To me, celluloid has an almost soapy or oily surface quality — smooth without being too slippery or too grippy.

 

I find the facets more significant than the ridges. It may be the most comfortable pen I own.

I need to buy an older 75 given how much I love the ones I have. All of mine(two currently, down from 3) have the round section that retains the ridges. 
 

One of my first “good” FPS was a Sheaffer Prelude with a slightly triangular section that I took to immediately. I also like that aspect of the Safari. 
 

My current 75s are an emerald with a fine oblique 18k nib(I think Parker must grade their obliques and italics differently from their rounds, as that fine oblique is similar to a Montblanc OB, and my med, Italic Duofold is about the width of an MB BB albeit with a very fine cross-stroke) and a Ciselle 18k XF. 
 

An American Ciselle with a medium or broad oblique might be heavenly 

[SoulSamurai]

I am personally very fond of finely knurled metal grips.

[catbert]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:17 AM, bunnspecial said:

... An American Ciselle with a medium or broad oblique might be heavenly 

That's more or less what I have, with a French 18K fine italic replacing the original 14K XF.

[maclink]

There aren't that many pens that I have which are a problem controlling for lack of friction.  My Lamy 2000 Steel version comes close though.  It's the only one where I actually give thought to preventing it slipping and the weight has a lot to do with this.

 

I get on with smooth, matte, metal and plastic surfaces.

[TheDutchGuy]

Interesting topic! Thanks for raising this point. I’ve also found that matte surfaces offer no guarantee for a secure grip. Shape is also a factor: a concave section or a flare near the nib, things like that really make a difference to me. It’s hard to objectively compare different materials because the shapes are also different. Anyway, some personal examples (modern pens only):

• Pilot C74 - plastic, concave - perfect grip, never feels slippery
• Pilot Falcon - plastic, not concave, no flare - not slippery but do miss a flare
• Fine Writing Bronze Age - aluminium, not concave, small flare - not slippery but I do miss a more pronounced flare
• Visconti HS Lava - matte, porous, somewhat concave - sometimes it’s glued to the hand yet other times it’s slippery as butter
• Visconti van Gogh - steel, mirror-smooth surface, not concave - depends on the weather
• Pineider Alchemist - matte, porous zeolite, not concave, no flare - not slippery at all but I do miss a flare
• Pineider Avatar UR - steel with slightly uneven surface (not mirror smooth), not concave, with pronounced flare - quite slippery
• MB 146 - resin, not concave, small flare - never feels slippery
• Sailor Pro Gear Slim - reson, not concave, small flare - never feels slippery

Small details matter. Four pens designed by Dante: the slightly uneven steel of the Pineider Avatar UR makes it harder for me to use than the mirror-smooth van Gogh. The lava on the Homo sapiens feels nice but for whatever reason sometimes feels slippery, while the zeolite of the Alchemist does not. But the HS has a concave section which really helps.

 

Generally, for me, both the feel and the shape of Pilot’s C74 section nails it. I don’t own a Maiora yet, but I’ve tried a few and those also seem to be a dream from an ergonomic point of view.

[maclink]

I just got myself a Lamy ideos which has a slick metal section.  The slick metal section is far less slippery than the matte palladium finish on the rest of the pen.   This pen is very useable, unlike its close relative, the Lamy aion that is matte finished aluminium.  I find that one to be perhaps, the most slippery pen for me to use.  I had forgotten about the aion.  

 

Another pen that I have with a slick metal section is the GvFC Guilloche..... again, no problem using this pen.  So far, for me, the slick metal finish provides similar friction to a slick plastic finish.

[Arkanabar]

I've generally avoided metal sections.  The only one I've owned was a Beiluner BL-06, a 40g Chinese c/c pen with a shiny chrome plated section.  It struck me as slick, slippery, and hard to hold.  I tried to mitigate this with some 3M Transpore medical-surgical tape, but the adhesive got all over.

 

I've encountered a couple of Safaris in charcoal with the textured finish, and one with the smooth finish.  I didn't like either, but I think that the smooth one was better.

 

I love ebonite (which is another name for hard rubber) for pens.  It's light, tough, and provides a sensation of traction that other plastics lack.  One of mine has a variable finish, including some texture on the section.  It is my first ebonite pen, and I love it still.

[TSherbs]

On 10/15/2021 at 12:51 PM, TheDutchGuy said:

 

Generally, for me, both the feel and the shape of Pilot’s C74 section nails it.

Same for me.