Please help ID this vintage Sailor

[PithyProlix]

I think this a very elegantly beautiful, minimalist design. Simple cylinder with a very slight taper starting approximately 3-4 cm from the bottom. It's about 132 mm capped - it's lying on top of a 1911 standard size for comparison. The 14k nib is small and, for Sailor, uncharacteristically springy - I love writing with this pen. This ticks a lot of boxes for me and definitely in my top 10 and probably top 5.

 

I have found nothing about it online. 

 

 

[stan]

It appears to be one of the models in their Hoscal series. Came in assorted colors and finishes.

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

Yes, it looks quite similar to my Hoscal in terms of design(red, with fine white spiderweb-like threads under light), and it's a fine nib (marked 2). Mine is a juicy, smooth, somewhat bendy nib with very light feedback on the proper side, and feels strangely soft (the tipping feels soft, not that the nib bends) on the reverse. May I ask what your nib is like, in comparison to the 1911?

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

Also stan, can the nib and feed be removed? Wanted to see if I might get a pen from somewhere and use the nib in a custom made pen.

[PithyProlix]

Yes, adding "Hoscal" to my search brings up a number of different pens with various finishes & colors, including someone else asking about the exact same pen as mine a few years ago here. Various Japanese sites claim they are from the 1960s - 1970s.

 

Thanks @stan and @IlikeInksandIcannotlie.

 

@IlikeInksandIcannotlie@IlikeInksandIcannotlie Is the nib springy on yours?

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

Yes, it's somewhat springy, but the flow and feedback are just perfect for me, so I use it without putting much pressure on it. Is your nib stubbish when held at 90 degrees to the paper? How does this nib compare in terms of feedback and flow to the 1911s?

[PithyProlix]

19 hours ago, IlikeInksandIcannotlie said:

Yes, it's somewhat springy, but the flow and feedback are just perfect for me, so I use it without putting much pressure on it. Is your nib stubbish when held at 90 degrees to the paper? How does this nib compare in terms of feedback and flow to the 1911s?

 

There's not much difference between normal writing angles and 90 degrees.

 

This one has a nice soft feel on the page. I've just received it a few days ago and only have tried a Sailor blue cartridge in it - with that flow is maybe medium (meaning I have much wetter pens and much dryer pens) but still generous with no pressure. Feedback is slicker than I expect from a Sailor. This pen appears to have seen little use, if any. BTW, I also got a Platinum flighter pocket pen along with it - the lady I bought it from was selling her departed father's pens and other items - and it has a springy 18k F nib with a very similar feel to my Hoscal and unlike my other Platinum pocket pens, even the ones with soft nibs. Perhaps the owner had a taste for nibs like that ...

 

That 1911s has a 14k S-F nib but it is just barely springy and feels much more like a typical Sailor nail. It's quite a wet pen and I use a very dry ink in it to moderate the flow. It has more of the characteristic Sailor feedback but still less than 'average' for Sailors. A very, very different pen from my Hoscal - both great pens though.

[stan]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:24 AM, IlikeInksandIcannotlie said:

Also stan, can the nib and feed be removed? Wanted to see if I might get a pen from somewhere and use the nib in a custom made pen.

Nibs in all of Sailor pens can be removed. They may not be the best choice for a custom pen. Likely you will need use the same feed if you do not have one of the same diameter. The feed is much longer than you might imagine and may be integral with another feature of the section. 

 

My suggestion is to use a larger more traditional shape nib such as that found on a Sailor Profit, Platinum 3776, or Pilot. But, if you don't the the Sailor pen you have, go for it. Take it apart and see what you can do with it. Might be a fun project.

 

Good luck.

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

7 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

Feedback is slicker than I expect from a Sailor.

Hmmm. I might have to try a 1911 before I buy one, my Hoscal's combination of feedback and smoothness is close to perfect. My thanks for the information.

 

2 hours ago, stan said:

Nibs in all of Sailor pens can be removed. They may not be the best choice for a custom pen. Likely you will need use the same feed if you do not have one of the same diameter. The feed is much longer than you might imagine and may be integral with another feature of the section. 

 

My suggestion is to use a larger more traditional shape nib such as that found on a Sailor Profit, Platinum 3776, or Pilot. But, if you don't the the Sailor pen you have, go for it. Take it apart and see what you can do with it. Might be a fun project.

 

Good luck.

Thanks for the information. I guess I will buy 1-2 of Sailor's pocket pens, and use their nibs, as I have seen the nib and feed unit on Bruno Taut's blog. Normal style pens go for around 1k-2k yen more atleast, or so I guess.

[PithyProlix]

1 minute ago, IlikeInksandIcannotlie said:

Hmmm. I might have to try a 1911 before I buy one, my Hoscal's combination of feedback and smoothness is close to perfect. My thanks for the information.

 

I also have a 1911L, H-M nib and a few Sailor pocket pens, all Fs if I remember correctly. The nib on my Hoscal is very different from all the rest of my Sailors. 

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

9 minutes ago, PithyProlix said:

 

I also have a 1911L, H-M nib and a few Sailor pocket pens, all Fs if I remember correctly. The nib on my Hoscal is very different from all the rest of my Sailors. 

What nibs do you have on the pocket pens? 14k, 21k, 23k or 24k? I know the gold content doesn't matter, but I believe that the tip finishing might be different.  Do they all have more feedback?

[PithyProlix]

6 hours ago, IlikeInksandIcannotlie said:

What nibs do you have on the pocket pens? 14k, 21k, 23k or 24k? I know the gold content doesn't matter, but I believe that the tip finishing might be different.  Do they all have more feedback?

 

Two steel, both very stiff, a few 14k & 18k, and a 21k. I had forgotten that the 21k is a #4 (M) - it doesn't get used much because I prefer the crisp line of an F. All have more feedback than the Hoscal. I like the feel of all of them on paper. Based on my experience with Sailor nibs, the feel of my Hoscal's nib seems like an anomaly. 

 

If you want a pocket pen with a springy nib with some feedback I think you are more likely to find it with Platinum. Still, though, most my Platinums are on the stiff side. 

[Paul-in-SF]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:34 AM, PithyProlix said:

adding "Hoscal" to my search brings up a number of different pens with various finishes & colors

 

Out of interest aroused from this thread, I went online and found a Hoscal in apparently good shape and at an apparently reasonable price, so I went for it. It has now arrived, sadly sans converter. but with the one Sailor cartridge that I happen to have, in Black, it is quite a lot of fun to write with. even though it is so slim. The nib is a little soft, and very responsive to my touch.

[PithyProlix]

Just to follow up:

 

I recently received another Hoscal, identical to the one that was the subject of this post, except for the date code and the nib's springiness. The one that was the subject of this post has date code 301 - 1973 January - and the one I received recently is 410 - 1974 October. The older one is significantly more springy while the newer one is only slightly springy.

 

The newer one is still a great writer and is more forgiving to those who write with a heavier hand. I prefer the greater springiness of the earlier one, though I do need to be more mindful of keeping a lighter hand when using it.