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Santini to Offer #8 Nibs


Carrau
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Thanks for the heads-up and (sorta) corroborating what was mentioned here.


I must say it isn't clear to me what the big deal with #8 nibs is, in terms of its physical properties (other than just being large) when it comes to writing. I doubt it's going to be either more precise or offer more rapid spring-back after being pushed and ‘flexed’.

 

Looking to be enlightened, either by the manufacturer, or users reviewing the nib after some hands-on experience, about how a #8 nib is superior for a writing instrument.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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I have no personal experience with #8 nibs, and haven’t come across any posts commenting on them (although there well may be such posts).  Like so much in the fountain pen world, there is a great deal of subjectivity and personal preference that influence choices.  It may just be a manufacturer looking to expand their market.  I’d be interested to hear what FPN member Penengineer may have to say about nib size (not width) and what effect it has on function and engineering, if any.  I’ll see if I can message him to provide some insight.

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In the case of Santini's larger designs, much like the larger Nakayas, the appeal of a #8 I think is that a #6 nib looks somewhat out of proportion. It's not necessarily anything to do with the writing experience.

Anthony

ukfountainpens.com

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According to their website, "The nib will be launched beginning of October with a New Collection of pens, expressly made for this special nib."

 

So, we need to know more about this "New Collection of pens" before we can really comment on the #8 nibs.

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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5 minutes ago, Mysterious Mose said:

we need to know more about this "New Collection of pens" before we can really comment on the #8 nibs.

 

I agree that a larger nib does not necessarily equate with a better writing experience.

 

Libra's 3–4mm longer than a 149.  Works fine for me with the #6.  A wider pen?

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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I think the fuss with #8 nibs, it’s all cosmetic. There are some pens on the market now that would look better with a #8 nib. They are too large for a #6 nib in that the relatively small nib looks awkward. 

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Thank y'all for the feedback on why a #8 nib would be preferred by some buyers who seem to have enough experience with fountain pens to know what they want and need.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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On 9/12/2021 at 7:58 AM, A Smug Dill said:

how a #8 nib is superior for a writing instrument

 

For my two scribbles worth, I'm in the size does not matter camp at least for Bock #8 (380)

 

I've tried both Bock 250 (steel and titanium) and 380 (14K and titanium) nib units and cannot feel a significant difference.

 

The 380s do have a more luxurious flow due to the ebonite feeds, though and gotta admit that fat chonk of metal is purdy so thumbs up to Santini.

 

Similar larger nibs like Pilot #30 and Sailor KOP do however feel different to me AND I think in those cases size is a factor among others (company grind, feed), go figure?!

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I like pens with #8 nibs. Everything else equal (of course, they never are) that would be my first choice.


I think they differ in 3 areas:

 

1. They look cool. Of course this it totally personal.

 

2. The size makes them a little softer. Of course there are soft #6 nibs (think Pilot or Nakaya), and they are very nice. The #8 nibs just feel a little different and I prefer them. It's a small difference, but at this level they are all small differences. I would differentiate soft nibs from nibs with the side cut - they are quite different and I don't like them as much as a soft nib. Exception being the Pilot FA.

 

3. They "magnify" my writing. Think of the combination of pen and your fingers as a lever. The further you hold the pen away from the contact point, the more the same movement of your fingers is a larger movement of the nib across the page. The larger (longer) #8 nib increases this. My handwriting tends to be somewhat "cramped" - closed loops on "E" and "L", etc. The #8 makes a slight but still noticeable improvement.

 

Definitely looking forward to the Santini with a #8 nib.

.

...

"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

.

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32 minutes ago, markh said:

The further you hold the pen away from the contact point, the more the same movement of your fingers is a larger movement of the nib across the page. The larger (longer) #8 nib increases this.

 

Ah. I would certainly hate that, then. To have more precise control over the outcome on the page — including making the loops in my lowercase 'e' and 'l' stay open — I would want the contact point on the nib tipping to be very narrow, but give myself a easier time so that I can produce (say) a 1mm open/hollow circle using large and relatively relaxed movements of my hand. The more precise and tight the lines in my writing are, the more expressive of my personality the page of writing is; but with larger pens my grip can be more relaxed, and I could use more of my arm to drive the instrument.

 

I would have hoped that wielding large pens with large nibs would be like using a big-ass laser to carve intricate patterns on a grain of rice with both precision and flair in the minute details of the tiny tracks. It's when I use small pens that I'd want to write with more flamboyant strokes, akin to slicing someone right open from shoulder to hip with one slash of the scalpel. The expression of skill when using a six-foot bo staff would be to deliver pulverising impact with a thrust (figuratively) through an opening with the diameter of a Coke can without touching the edges, as opposed to crushing someone's bones with a wide-arc swing, so I've been taught; and it's a philosophy I carry into other forms of physical expression.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Pen Ingineer was kind enough to offer the following comments, which support a number of comments made on the thread:

 

“the right ingeneer can do anything ... even nibs of different sizes (and material) having the same writing characteristics (almost).  When you read my articles on nibs and following (link to this page), you will hardly find any dimensions, the reason for that is, that has been said refers to principles of mechanics which are independent of size, within the range of a fountain pen nib, even if one were twice as large as the other.  Basically, a nib is a convoluted cantilever

In case you increase all the dimension proportionally, you end up with a softer nib because some dimensions impact on force/resistance by the power of 2 as well as 3.  

 

A lot can be done with any nib.

 

Having said this, a larger nib costs more, if in gold. The larger size would also be more suitable for a softer nib with a narrow range of variation of softness because a larger nib can be manufactured to more precise tolerances, in  particular when manual work is involved.   However, since the dimensions of length determine the stability of the nib, a larger, less stable nib would need a longer time for learning the skill to write with it and also require a steady hand.

 

In my point of view, the size of a nib is a fashion feature. 

 

Until next time, Amadeus Pen Ingeneer”

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6 hours ago, markh said:

I like pens with #8 nibs. Everything else equal (of course, they never are) that would be my first choice.


I think they differ in 3 areas:

 

1. They look cool. Of course this it totally personal.

 

2. The size makes them a little softer. Of course there are soft #6 nibs (think Pilot or Nakaya), and they are very nice. The #8 nibs just feel a little different and I prefer them. It's a small difference, but at this level they are all small differences. I would differentiate soft nibs from nibs with the side cut - they are quite different and I don't like them as much as a soft nib. Exception being the Pilot FA.

 

3. They "magnify" my writing. Think of the combination of pen and your fingers as a lever. The further you hold the pen away from the contact point, the more the same movement of your fingers is a larger movement of the nib across the page. The larger (longer) #8 nib increases this. My handwriting tends to be somewhat "cramped" - closed loops on "E" and "L", etc. The #8 makes a slight but still noticeable improvement.

 

Definitely looking forward to the Santini with a #8 nib.

.

Interesting points. I agree that larger nibs make larger pens more proportional in appearance. I personally dislike a large pen with a Jowo nib that’s too small for it. This is why I like Pilot, Sailor, Pelikan and Montblanc. Their pens have appropriately matched nib sizes. 

 

The large nibs on my two MB149s are by no means soft.  OTOH, the nib on a Pelikan M1000 is quite soft though I think that’s more from the metal properties rather than the nib size. I recently got a #8 titanium Bock nib and expected it to be quite soft but honestly, I don’t find it to be significantly softer or wetter than the titanium #6 Bock nibs I have. 

 

Magnifying writing? Perhaps, though not in my experience since I likely unconsciously compensate by holding the bigger nibbed pen further down the section (I know that I do this) or just write with smaller movements of my hand to ensure the text is the usual size. I can see what you’re getting at though. I tend to write larger with wider nib widths, ie, broads and stubs vs F and EF nibs. 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Carrau said:

Pen Ingineer was kind enough to offer the following comments,

 …‹snip›… 

Until next time, Amadeus Pen Ingeneer”

 

Thank you @Pen Engineer and @Carrau.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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11 hours ago, maclink said:

Magnifying writing? Perhaps, though not in my experience since I likely unconsciously compensate by holding the bigger nibbed pen further down the section (I know that I do this) or just write with smaller movements of my hand to ensure the text is the usual size. I can see what you’re getting at though. I tend to write larger with wider nib widths, ie, broads and stubs vs F and EF nibs. 

 

Interesting how different we all are, how different our handwriting styles, how personal pen our choices are. I think this is a really great consequence of writing by hand in our mechanical world.

 

I, maybe unconsciously but very noticeably, hold a pen with a smaller nib further away from the contact point. That makes my writing if not more beautiful, at least more legible. I hate it when I go to the store and can't read my own writing on the shopping list.....

 

.

...

"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

.

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I was just checking on this.  I have a new Schon DSGN Ultem and fitted it with a #8 nib.

 

397240399_SchonDSGNUltem-1.jpeg.e608aef468002359ed00659920452482.jpeg1675855321_SchonDSGNUltem-2.jpeg.b111e667a8cb77b5eefe0c20d0126872.jpeg

 

I hold that pen at the tip of the section while writing.

 

I then wrote with my Pilot Prera and found myself gripping both body and section.  Fortunately, the Prera is a snap cap so my grip spanning where the section and body meet, doesn't cause a problem.  OTOH, this is why I can't use my Kaweko Brass Sport for long writing sessions.  The threading becomes uncomfortable since I grip the pen where the section meets the body as with the Prera.

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57 minutes ago, maclink said:

I was just checking on this.  I have a new Schon DSGN Ultem and fitted it with a #8 nib.

 

Interesting. I just got one of these at the SF Pen show (out of Ian's hand.) Mine is black, and came with a #6 nib.

 

Really interesting pen. I like that it's really light weight. The edge of the cap was a bit sharp and rubbed my hand when writing with it posted (which for this pen works best for me.) Thinking about it, I use it posted because I hold the pen with a #6 nib further away from the contact point, and the extra length of a posted pen makes this work better.

 

I used some 1.5μ abrasive and took off maybe a tiny fraction of a mm off the cap edge - made a big difference.

 

.

 

 

...

"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

.

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I’m not sure I write with larger strokes or characters with a larger nib, however, I definitely have to concentrate more when writing with a smaller nib (such as  vintage Pelikan 400/GeHa/ MB/ P51)  in order to make my writing as large as it is with a #6 modern nib that requires no special effort.

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Good news, another #8.  Now if only somebody put a steel one in a pen for under $200...

AKA Ichiro Fakename

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