Is this Navy Grey or Dove Grey?

[Estycollector]

Much lighter than my '42 51, but could be the lighting. 

[FlighterGuy]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:33 AM, inkstainedruth said:

Oh, that's really interesting, FlighterGuy.  My one UK production 51 is a Navy Gray Aero, and I didn't realize that it was a rare color for the Newhaven facility (I don't actually like the color all that much, and prefer the lighter and less green-leaning Dove Gray, and only bid on the pen because of the OB nib on the pen).  I had always thought that Dove Gray was the 51 Vac color and Navy Grey was the Aerometric color (the same sort of way that 51 Vacs were Cedar Blue, while for Aeros it was Midnight Blue and Teal).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Ruth,

The 47-48 UK Vacumatic colors were India Black, Cedar Blue, Dove Grey and Cordovan Brown.  In 1949 the US Aerometric colors were.  Black, Midnight Blue, Navy Grey, Cocoa, Forrest Green, Burgundy, Teal Blue, and Plumb.  (for Parker 51 model pen codes S1-241 thru S1-248).  The UK Aerometric production started in mid 1950.  Therefore, a UK Navy Grey Vacumatic is possible and thus rare.  A UK Navy Grey Aerometric would be a standard color.

Eric

[inkstainedruth]

And of course that's what I have: a Navy Gray Aero made in the UK.  The only other English 51 I have is my first 51 Vac and it's black.  Got it off the Bay of Evil the same weekend I got the Plum Demi and had sort of forgotten I'd bid on it --  because I had been so focussed on the Plummer auction.  I had bid the minimum, fully expecting to get outbid and wasn't really thinking of the possibility of that NOT happening, only it turned out nobody else bid (it had the cap for a US-production 51 Special on it, which I was able to eventually wheeler-dealer trades with people at pen shows for a more correct cap).

I do have a Dove Gray 51 Vac.  It and another black 51 Vac both have the "T" date code (which apparently means they were made in a secondary factory -- formerly used for ink production -- which Parker bought from Townsend Tractor).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[FlighterGuy]

On 11/6/2021 at 10:50 PM, inkstainedruth said:

And of course that's what I have: a Navy Gray Aero made in the UK.  The only other English 51 I have is my first 51 Vac and it's black.  Got it off the Bay of Evil the same weekend I got the Plum Demi and had sort of forgotten I'd bid on it --  because I had been so focussed on the Plummer auction.  I had bid the minimum, fully expecting to get outbid and wasn't really thinking of the possibility of that NOT happening, only it turned out nobody else bid (it had the cap for a US-production 51 Special on it, which I was able to eventually wheeler-dealer trades with people at pen shows for a more correct cap).

I do have a Dove Gray 51 Vac.  It and another black 51 Vac both have the "T" date code (which apparently means they were made in a secondary factory -- formerly used for ink production -- which Parker bought from Townsend Tractor).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

T for Toronto, pens made in the US and assembled in Toronto.  In turn, those pens went to the UK and throughout Canada. Probably have to do with a duty difference between parts and a finished retail product.

[Mr Gutsy]

12 minutes ago, FlighterGuy said:

T for Toronto, pens made in the US and assembled in Toronto.  In turn, those pens went to the UK and throughout Canada. Probably have to do with a duty difference between parts and a finished retail product.

 

 

You're spot on, It was to get around import tariffs in place between the UK (with Canada still being in the British Empire at the time) and the USA, as it counted as being 'manufactured' from within and would levy a smaller fee.

[Carguy]

4 minutes ago, Mr Gutsy said:

 

 

You're spot on, It was to get around import tariffs in place between the UK (with Canada still being in the British Empire at the time) and the USA, as it counted as being 'manufactured' from within and would levy a smaller fee.

I thought this had something to do with nibs made at the old Townsend Tractor factory in Janesville rather than Toronto?

[inkstainedruth]

Yes that's what I've read as well -- especially since in all other respects both of those pens are marked as US production.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[FarmBoy]

T is NOT for Toronto.  That story (note story) was old collector lore.  None other than Saul Kitchner wrote it up and published it.  Years after it was in the Pennant I asked him how he determined what the T meant.  He said it sounded good and had no proof, but it sounds good.

After some detective work it was determined that the pens were assembled in the Townsend Tractor building and had nothing to do with Toronto.

[FlighterGuy]

Fairytales! T7, T8 & T9 date codes are Toronto.  Newhaven was also making 51s and started making Aero 51s in 1950 so there may be some T50 date codes out there.

[FlighterGuy]

In the Parker "51" book it references Toronto and there is no mention of Townsend Tractor.

[FarmBoy]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Toronto is not involved. 
 

more to the point, I new the author of the T is for Toronto article.  He told me he made it up. I know the author of the 51 book and he got it wrong.  He referenced Saul as the source. 
 

I’ve seen the Parker documentation. 
 

Read the article in the Pennant. 

[FlighterGuy]

What's the point of having reference material if it's inaccurate?  

[Mr Gutsy]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:10 PM, Carguy said:

I thought this had something to do with nibs made at the old Townsend Tractor factory in Janesville rather than Toronto?

 

I stand corrected, I was following the Book, which  Farmboy has pointed out is in inaccurate.

[Carguy]

Understand completely. For the longest time, I believed the Toronto story to be true as I have one in my collection. It still amazes me how little I know after all these years……

[Hbanger]

3 hours ago, Carguy said:

Understand completely. For the longest time, I believed the Toronto story to be true as I have one in my collection. It still amazes me how little I know after all these years……

These fantasy stories abound in all collecting fields most originated well before the internet, usually by an early old time collector who was spinning a story to sell an item and these stories we’re passed from collector to collector and show to show for many years and are still taken as gospel even when factual info disproves the story