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Pelikan M800 old style with 14ct nib


Dutchpen

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Hi,

 

I have a beautiful green Pelikan M800 old style (w-Germany, gold disk and logo) with a 14ct M nib which I’m looking for to sell. 
 

Before listing it, I want to know a bit more about these harder to find 14ct nibs. 
 

does anyone know why the 14ct nibs are better for customizing than the 18ct nibs?

Nib (re)plating: please visit www.Dutchpen.com

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The tipping on the 14k and 18k nibs is the same.  It has to be very hard metal to hold up under years of writing. 

 

Customization of nib width and adding various specialty grinds (italic, oblique, architect, etc) only affects the shape of the tipping, and don't involve the rest of the nib.

 

Various attempts to make a nib more flexible by changing the gold (or steel) part of the nib by grinding away material or cutting away parts of the nib are be a different story, but most of those attempts don't work very well. 

 

There are arguments about the stiffness of the M800 14k versus early 18k versus later versions of the 18k nibs (without nib modifications).  I can't help there, as I only have later versions (between which I find no difference) and I have no 14k nibs.

 

There's a little added price in the used pen market for the 14k nibs because they're early production and uncommon.  I think sellers hope to hype them more to get a better price than any other reason.

 

-- Joel -- "I collect expensive and time-consuming hobbies."

 

INK (noun): A villainous compound of tannogallate of iron, gum-arabic and water,

chiefly used to facilitate the infection of idiocy and promote intellectual crime.

(from The Devil's Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce)

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There are all regular flex. And I did not go real OCD on the nib testing. Just causal....gee those 200's nibs are good.

Yes, the "W. Germany" nibs are a slight tad springier than the "Germany" to 97 ones.  As everybody has said.

 

'82-90/91 W.Germany nibs are a slight tad more springy than '90/91-97 Germany nibs.

I have in W. Germany nibs, a steel 200 OM, a 800 OM 18K , and a small 600 18K OBB. I don't notice the 18K gold nib as better than the steel one.

 

My Germany  '90's 200, '93 18K OM Hunter Toledo  or '90-96 14 K 400 M (tortoise was not made in '97), Celebry 14K steel or 14 K nib and 381 14 K gold nib. I'd rate the steel nib as good as the gold nibs, be it 14 or 18K.

 

Pelikan did a very good job in making all it's nibs consistent.  In both the W.Germany and the Germany semi-vintage pens.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Why are modern 14k Pelikan m800 nibs more desirable?  Partly it is a result of the widespread belief that they are  more flexible or springy or bouncy than the 18k versions.   Having had several of these nibs, i can report that unmodified, 14k m800 nibs are nothing remarkable in the flexibility department.  They behave like typical rigid modern nibs, nothing like pre-1965 Pelikan nibs, much less an old Waterman.  

 

However, the 14k nibs can be made more flexible.  What’s more, some nibmeisters will only do the Spencerian or added flex with the 14k nibs.  Thus, with the right customisation, the 14k m800 nib will give you the largest possible flexible Pelikan.  The combination of size and flex holds quite an appeal to pen nerds.  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

There are all regular flex. And I did not go real OCD on the nib testing. Just causal....gee those 200's nibs are good.

Yes, the "W. Germany" nibs are a slight tad springier than the "Germany" to 97 ones.  As everybody has said.

 

'82-90/91 W.Germany nibs are a slight tad more springy than '90/91-97 Germany nibs.

I have in W. Germany nibs, a steel 200 OM, a 800 OM 18K , and a small 600 18K OBB. I don't notice the 18K gold nib as better than the steel one.

 

My Germany  '90's 200, '93 18K OM Hunter Toledo  or '90-96 14 K 400 M (tortoise was not made in '97), Celebry 14K steel or 14 K nib and 381 14 K gold nib. I'd rate the steel nib as good as the gold nibs, be it 14 or 18K.

 

Pelikan did a very good job in making all it's nibs consistent.  In both the W.Germany and the Germany semi-vintage pens.

 

 

If by “regular flex” you mean rigid, then i can agree.  They’re typical modern nibs.  

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Nail like modern 800's are 1X or no tine spread at all.  Like a P-51, Vac (and many Parkers) or a Lamy (outside it's new version of the Persona).Cd'A. Dupont,

 

Semi-nail like the 400/600 when mashed will give 2X tine spread. (Like the old P-75)

I now strive to stay away from nails and semi-nails.

 

Regular flex when well mashed will give you 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke. You really can not write when the regular flex nib is maxed. But if one is a tad heavy handed 2 X is easy to get.  A regular flex is a springy nib what the Japanese call 'soft'.

 

Regular flex was once regular issue of many pens, Some Shaeffer's, and Crest Sub-brand, Esterbrooks and Wearevers, even the Venus.  '82-97 Pelikans.. My '70s-90 era 146s/9 MB's are regular flex. My steel nibbed Cross Townsend and NOS  Elysee World are regular flex.

As is one of my late '80's-early 90's Diplomats...is regular flex....(My wife has a Diplomat she don't use that is either a semi-nail or nail. )

The nib flex depends on the era.

 

Having trans-mailed a W.Germany 800 to a passed poster; I got to play with it for three days............and made a 'vow' not to get a 800 unless it was a W. Germany one with that tad more springy nib than the '90's-97 era regular flex nibs.

(Which I couldn't tell which was a pre'98 or a post '97....so didn't look.)

 

How ever both the W. Germany and the pre'98 Germany semi-vintage pens are regular flex.....if you don't have a W. Germany and a Germany pen of that era, you would never feel the slight difference in the regular flex nibs.

 

 

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Nail like modern 800's are 1X or no tine spread at all.  Like a P-51, Vac (and many Parkers) or a Lamy (outside it's new version of the Persona).Cd'A. Dupont,

 

Semi-nail like the 400/600 when mashed will give 2X tine spread. (Like the old P-75)

I now strive to stay away from nails and semi-nails.

 

Regular flex when well mashed will give you 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke. You really can not write when the regular flex nib is maxed. But if one is a tad heavy handed 2 X is easy to get.  A regular flex is a springy nib what the Japanese call 'soft'.

 

Regular flex was once regular issue of many pens, Some Shaeffer's, and Crest Sub-brand, Esterbrooks and Wearevers, even the Venus.  '82-97 Pelikans.. My '70s-90 era 146s/9 MB's are regular flex. My steel nibbed Cross Townsend and NOS  Elysee World are regular flex.

As is one of my late '80's-early 90's Diplomats...is regular flex....(My wife has a Diplomat she don't use that is either a semi-nail or nail. )

The nib flex depends on the era.

 

Having trans-mailed a W.Germany 800 to a passed poster; I got to play with it for three days............and made a 'vow' not to get a 800 unless it was a W. Germany one with that tad more springy nib than the '90's-97 era regular flex nibs.

(Which I couldn't tell which was a pre'98 or a post '97....so didn't look.)

 

How ever both the W. Germany and the pre'98 Germany semi-vintage pens are regular flex.....if you don't have a W. Germany and a Germany pen of that era, you would never feel the slight difference in the regular flex nibs.

 

 

 

 

Ah, so we disagree. 

 

Outside of some slight tine spread on some 14c 1970s MBs and the flex on specialty nibs like the Pilot FA, i haven’t found appreciable flex/spring/bounce on any pen made after 1970. OMAS, MB, Pelikan whatever, they’re all disappointing in the flex department.  Not as rigid as a Sheaffer flattop, maybe, but you could say that about anything. including the nail from the hardware store.

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1 hour ago, gyasko said:

, i haven’t found appreciable flex/spring/bounce on any pen made after 1970. OMAS, MB, Pelikan whatever, they’re all disappointing in the flex department. 

Pelikan '66-82 was more nail and semi-nail with pens I don't have but a Silverx or some thing close to that name. I'd not wasted my money on that era, in no one recommended them. That Silverex showed me I was right to avoid them.

 

I have two  146's that are '74/5-90 that are regular flex. My W.Germany 149 is regular flex.

Slight tine spread is regular flex.....like a 200.

Well ,depending on how hard you mash the pen to get slight tine spread...if one only gets 2 X a light down stroke when well mashed, it is a semi-nail....should it spread the tines out to 3 X a light down stroke when Well Mashed it is regular flex.....normal use is more slight tine spread.....springy.

 

If I'm a tad heavy handed I could see getting 2 X sometimes....but not as easy as semi-flex which for me has normally some letters or parts of letters having 2 X tine spread.

1 1/2 tines spread a bit of tine bend would be normal for those with a light Hand.

It appears you Gyasko have a light Hand.....there are times when my Hand is not as light as it could be.

For Superflex, sweat making the nib write XXF, think to make it write EF, so scribble along in F...............so that is not the lightest of Hands.

 

Spring....bounce are more a term than 'flex' as many seem to use the term......but regular ....flex was regular issue often enough. In the States, in Germany.

 

I'm not up on British nor Italian or French pens. Aurora use to be a semi-flex long into the early 2000's. I checked out an old NOS Verdi on sale at my B&M. It was too toothy for me.

 

Semi-flex line variation would and will make one disappointed in the flex department, if one was looking for flex in a regular flex..... Regular Flex is not of course semi-flex. It is spring/bounce.

 

Semi-flex is often too wet for two toned shading inks....regular flex normally hits the spot with shading inks.

 

I listed the pens I have that are semi-vintage.....which I don't count the '67-82 stiff nibs.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Rumor says 14c, especially the 14c on the M800 Nord/LB(LBS)https://thepelikansperch.com/2018/11/10/pelikan-nord-lb-lbs/ is much better than the 18c. In Chinese fountain pen community, we call the 14c nib on the M800 Nord/LB(LBS) as "speechless" nib (if I could translate word by word), as it's generally mysterious or profound to immediately provide a description of the feelings to write with.

 

Unfortunately, those 14c M800s usually have a high price mark-up in the market, which beyond my wallet's capability. Most of my Pelikan are 400 sized and I enjoyed so much with the inter-changable nib units from different eras.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have a W.Germany 800 in 18K, which is a slight tad more springy than a '91-97 Germany pen. I have a couple W.Germany steel 200's and a small 400 sized 600 OBB 18K.......you have to have '91-97 era pens to feel the difference. I have steel 200's, 14 K400/381 and (Late '90's but still = to the grand 200's nib) Celebrie which are 14 K, outside a matching steel and 14K Celebries, which I have to to see/feel the slight difference.

My 2003 1000 is regular flex as is my '93 Hunter Toledo.

My other 605 is a medium large pen with a semi-nail 14 K nib.

 

It depends on which era your pen is from.....'82-97 is nice springy regular flex....150/200/400/small 600/800 & those nibs all have the tear drop tipping so write with a nice clean line.

Post '97 era..........out side the 200 which has remained unchanged; all the gold nibs are fat and blobby; not writing with a clean line.

 

Fat round nibs made for ball point users; therefor stiffer.

 

400/ and larger 600 are semi-nails. The 800 is a nail. When Bock made the nibs the 1000 was semi-flex (still a fat and blobby nib). When Pelikan finished taking the nibs In-House they down graded the easier to bend semi-flex 1000's nib to regular flex. The 1000 was the last nib taken In House  @ 2010.

 

The Exact Same Complaints continued in Bock had made Exactly the nib Pelikan wanted.  So it was not Bock's fault Pelikan wanted them to make stiffer fat and blobby nibs.

 

The before and '50-65 era is factory stubbed semi-flex....and they too write with a nice clean line.

 

So it depends on which era of Pelikan nibs one is talking about to what it is.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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