Silicone Grease and Iron-Gall Ink

[loganrah]

I have a problem: I use a lot of iron-gall ink and I also use several pens where the ink comes in contact with silicone grease (for example the piston of a Pilot 823). This combination seems to have some sort of reaction that makes parts extremely stiff. Worse than without any silicone grease at all.

 

Has anyone else noticed this interaction? I am just using the wrong silicone grease (the one from Goulet pens) or the wrong iron-gall ink (mostly Salix)?

 

Any ideas for lubricants that don't have this problem with iron-gall ink?

[A Smug Dill]

Food-grade silicone grease should be fairly inert, without nothing in it that could cause the iron-gall component of the ink to precipitate out and then adhere to the thin layer of grease on the piston plug as tiny solid particles that then increases friction when it gets between the plug's rim and the ink reservoir's walls, thereby making the movement “worse than without any silicone grease at all”.

 

9 minutes ago, loganrah said:

I am just using the wrong silicone grease (the one from Goulet pens) or the wrong iron-gall ink (mostly Salix)?

 

I have no idea about the formulation or quality of that particular silicone grease, and given it's a Goulet product, I have zero interest in finding out for myself or anyone else. Nevertheless, if I were at all interested, I'd be smeaing a thin layer of it on the walls of a glass sample vial, test tube or beaker, such that it remains visually clear, and then putting some R&K Salix ink into the container and leave it for a couple of weeks, before removing the ink and giving it a light flush with just water, then checking (with a good loupe, if necessary) whether any opaque particles can be observed stuck to the inside of the glass walls, in order to answer that question.

 

I've used a tiny bit of (not Goulet's) silicone grease, directly applied to the wall of the front compartment in the barrels to lubricate the rims of the piston plugs, in my Pelikan M200 pens that are ‘permanently’ inked with Platinum Classic Ink (Khaki Black and Citrus Black) iron-gall inks; and I haven't noticed any undue stiffness or increase in friction of the piston movement resulting.

[Karmachanic]

Mr Zorn recommends Molycote 111 silicon grease.

Available in 10ml, 20ml and 100ml containers.

[Bo Bo Olson]

No, but I use IG inks seldom, and some of my piston pens were if, greased, a long time ago....so less grease.

 

How often do you normally grease your Pilot pen? With out IG problems?

Could be you have a grease build up.

 

Rick Papas(sp) says a Pelikan should be  lightly greased at three or more years...when it needs it....not as a regular thing like cleaning a pen.

[gyasko]

Haven't noticed it. I use a lot of IG inks.

[bunnspecial]

I've never had an issue.

 

My pistons get greased under 3 conditions:

 

1. The piston is stiff

 

2. I take one apart to the point where I'm cleaning most if not all the old grease off

 

3. As a band-aid for a leaky piston seal

 

If not any of the above, I leave them alone. I use IG inks. My most used one is Pelikan 4001 BB, which is low enough in iron to almost not count, followed by old formula Montblanc Midnight Blue. More recently I've been using DIamine Registrar's, which I'm pretty sure is one of the heavier formulae around.

[Paganini]

As a matter of fact I just had this happen the other day. One of my 601s has Platinum Forest Black in it and I hadn't written with it in a while. It wrote fine, and the feed/collector was still saturated, but I thought maybe I should top it off, in the spirit of "fill your P51 on the same day each week." So I did that, and the piston was *VERY* stiff. I haven't cleaned it yet, but I suspect that what has happened is that the ink dried on the inner surface of the barrel so that, even though the piston is greased, it's running into resistance when it hit's dried ink. 

I wouldn't think it has anything to do with a *reaction* between the grease and the ink, but... I'm not a chemist!

[Ron Z]

Rick Papas(sp) says a Pelikan ....

 

Propas.

[bunnspecial]

FWIW, I have a tub from Goulet, but generally use Dow-Corning High Vacuum grease. It comes in a green tube that looks like it's straight out of the 1950s, but is 100% silicone grease. This stuff is a laboratory staple not just for things like high vac flanges(actually it's not great for that-on the advice of the manufacturer I use Alpezion-L which I think is hydrocarbon grease on my Mass Specs) but also to prevent glass joints from freezing or really anywhere you need a seal that won't be in contact with solvents.

 

I'd not be surprised if this is what's in the little Goulet tub.

 

Typically you'll pay $20-40 for a tube of the Down-Corning stuff, but it's a MASSIVE tube(5.3oz) that will probably last you the rest of your life if this is all you're using it for.

[loganrah]

Thanks everyone. I guess it is just me. 

 

I was using the term reaction loosely. I suspect what might be going on is that the iron-gall ink is precipitating a bit on its own and then the silicone grease is trapping that sediment. 

 

I will do some tests in tubes when I have time. 

 

I haven't noticed this problem in my one piston filler though. 

[A Smug Dill]

14 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

Mr Zorn recommends Molycote 111 silicon grease.

5 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

Typically you'll pay $20-40 for a tube of the Down-Corning stuff, but it's a MASSIVE tube(5.3oz) that will probably last you the rest of your life if this is all you're using it for.

 

Firstly, I don't know that Dow Corning markets and marks any of its retail SKUs for the Molycote 111 product in other than SI units. I think it'd be more helpful to refer to the 150g tubes, of which everyone would have a ready and shared understanding, and can easily search for on the Web.

 

I have a tube of the 100g product (Art. Nr. 1673840, Made in USA) right in front of me, and it certainly does not say anything about its contents in ounces, either on the tube or its cardboard box.

 

(It's currently being listed by a seller, other than the one from whom I ordered mine, on eBay for A$30 delivered within Australia, in case anyone is interested in getting one of those.)

 

Secondly, do keep in mind that:

When stored between 0 and 40°C in the original unopened containers, this product has a usable life of 60 months from the date of production.

according to the manufacturer.

[bunnspecial]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Firstly, I don't know that Dow Corning markets and marks any of its retail SKUs for the Molycote 111 product in other than SI units. I think it'd be more helpful to refer to the 150g tubes, of which everyone would have a ready and shared understanding, and can easily search for on the Web.

 

I have a tube of the 100g product (Art. Nr. 1673840, Made in USA) right in front of me, and it certainly does not say anything about its contents in ounces, either on the tube or its cardboard box.

 

(It's currently being listed by a seller, other than the one from whom I ordered mine, on eBay for A$30 delivered within Australia, in case anyone is interested in getting one of those.)

 

Secondly, do keep in mind that:

When stored between 0 and 40°C in the original unopened containers, this product has a usable life of 60 months from the date of production.

according to the manufacturer.

 

The tube I am looking at now states 5.3 oz(150g). All commercial listings I can find refer to 5.3 oz, however looking at photos I see some tubes marked 150g(5.3 oz), so that may be a more recent packaging change. None the less, every supplier I checked listed a 5.3 oz tube. This is product # 2021854-0807.

Here is one supplier listing that specifies the size as 5.3 oz. https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/aldrich/z273554

 

(Sigma Aldrich is one of the "big three" chemical/scientific suppliers in the US).

 

In my mind, there is no reason why a material so inert would not have a virtually infinite life. I doubt most labs buy a tube more often than once every 10 years.

 

If I may be thoroughly pedantic, stating 150g is not stating the amount in an SI unit. That would be .150kg.

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

16 hours ago, Ron Z said:

Propas

Thanks Ron. I misspell his name all the time....even though I have a black 140 from him.