Stub Nib Underside: Grind Flat - or - As Cast?

[Rroberrt]

Writing with a stub nib ‘straight-on’, as it were, is awkward for me and so I grind a little left-oblique  on all my stubs, which works.  One question that always gives me pause is whether or not to ‘flatten’ the underside of the nib.  Usually I do - and I think it helps. But then, the outcome from my grinding shenanigans is seldom definitive.    And so I’m not sure and am still looking for an FPN  thread  for help.

 

I am looking at the underside of a #6 Jowo 1.1 mm. Beautifully shiny and smooth - but is it flat? 

 

I’ll be unable to resist grinding at some point, but I wonder……..?

[rickap]

I have a Levenger broad I stubbed. I ground it flat on the bottom, top and front. It does have line variation and it is a smooth writer but it does not like to be rotated much; gets feedbacky.

 

I'd say find a grind that works for you and go with it!

 

  Rick

[Rroberrt]

3 minutes ago, rickap said:

 

I'd say find a grind that works for you and go with it!

 

  Rick

Good advice Rick. I’m trying, and I appreciate all the help I get here.

[Dione]

I believe stub nibs are generally ground flat on the bottom top and front as @rickap does. It should be the same with your italic grind.

[mizgeorge]

For me a lot depends on whether it's steel or gold. 

 

Steel nibs I grind completely smooth and flat - I bevel slightly to either top or bottom depending on whether I want a cursive or more everyday italic, and round them a little more for a softer stub. I sometimes add between 10 and 15 degrees of left oblique to widen the nib slightly, if I think it's going to suit how I grip a given pen.

 

With a gold nib, I tend to leave a wee bit more tipping, and bevel slightly more, so there is just a tiny bit of a 'bump' as I think this protects the tip better - though I will happily grind a broken nib to a bare stub if it's a choice between that and scrapping it, given that re-tipping is pretty much unavailable in the UK now, and the costs of postage to have it done overseas have become prohibitive. If there's room to make it slightly oblique I do so, but only if I think it's going to work well with the amount of tipping available to me.

 

If it's a nib/pen that I think I might sell on at some point, I tend to stick to a straight, rather than oblique tip as this is more likely to suit all hands.

 

My model for doing these is still based on my favourite vintage italic and oblique nibs, including a favourite mid-40s Waterman italic and a bunch of old Pelikan OBs. 

 

 

 

 

[Rroberrt]

4 hours ago, mizgeorge said:

sometimes add between 10 and 15 degrees of left oblique to widen the nib slightly, if I think it's going to suit how I grip a given pen.

Thank you for response - I got several points to cogitate on; one of which was whether I too change my grip for different pens.

 

If by ‘grip’ we mean an arrangement of fingers-hand-wrist that decides the orientation of pen to paper, then no, I don’t think I change. However, depending on the ‘form’ (diameter;shape; thickness and friction co-efficient) of the grip-section of the pen, then my ‘tripod’ will change slightly.

 

In other words, the appropriate degree of ‘oblique’ to best suit my writing should not change from stub pen to stub pen. I think. 

 

But that is something I will keep a eye on. Thanks for the thought.

[Rroberrt]

I have now my answer to the question I had in mind - which I did not highlight very clearly: concerning only new high quality steel nibs, and my reluctance to sully their bright shiny,and apparently FLAT bottom surface.

 

I had purchased two #6 Jowo nibs; one in fine, and the other a 1.1mm stub. The (f) performed beautifully out of the box, as per it’s reputation, and needed no improvement from me. The 1.1mm was just as elegant to look at, (beautifully finished) but did not write as cleanly on my inks and paper as my other (home-ground) stub nibs - which are ground on all surfaces, including the bottom one.

 

And so, as I continue to picture a stub-based script, I must resist the siren song of bright shiny nibs and submit them to the grinder, bottom-surfaces and all.

 

 

[Bristol24]

I have to admit that I am inspired from reading these posts.  I have managed to ruin a couple of cheap Chinese nibs and one vintage Wearever nib (stainless steel with tipping) but I have also managed to resuscitate a few vintage nibs that would otherwise have to be tossed.  My grinding skills and nib smoothing skills have improved by observing that, as with so many things, less is more.

 

Cliff

[alexwi]

If you don't grind the bottom and the top flat, you're likely to have a tip shaped in an arc, which will not yield as thin horizontal strokes as it otherwise would. Am I missing something?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Look in German Ebay for a standard sized Geha 790. It has the classic Torpedo shape of the Swan, MB, and Pelikans of that era. Cost about E60. Nib is a tad better than a Pelikan....is semi-flex stubbed and can be gotten in OF, OM and OB. Best buy for semi-flex.

I have three sturdy very well balanced posted 790's and a 760.

Geha competed against Pelikan 400 and 140.

Degussa made nibs for Geha and Soennecken and others, the company that took over Osmia's nib factory in '32 for debt....and continued making the same great nib.

Therefor Geha nibs are a small tad better than Pelikan. Two posters I respct reported that, and I tested my hand full of Gehe's vs a hand full of vintage Pelikans. Geha won.

 

I've seen some Osmia fountain pens go for E60 lately.....the same price as a decade ago, but you may have to get them re-corked....and boiled in oil and bees wax cork is the smoothest of all gaskets...will be good for another 70 years then.

 

If you want to spend more... E-90-120 in Germany $280 in the States you can get '50-65 semi-flex &SF oblique Pelikans 400's or 140's. .

 

Geha, Pelikan, MB and Osmia all made factory stub semi-flex nibs and made them also in oblique.............the real thing. Real line variation, comfortable ride, soft ++.

 

No matter unless you grind slits and half moons in your nib be an ersatz of a real oblique, that you have to hunt for line variation instead of having it with vintage oblique semi-flex. 

 

I have 35 semi-flex, 15 maxi-semi-flex. I don't know how many obliques I have, but I do have OBBB in 30 degree grind, OBB, OB, OM and OF in both 15&30 degree grinds (pure luck as with all 30 degree grinds). + a hand full of other semi-flex obliques in 15 degree grind.

In Germany I live at the well for semi-flex and obliques.

 

I've had two nail obliques; absolutely no line variation and 4-5 regular flex obliques, where line variation is hunted for after one has been spoiled by semi-flex obliques.

 

Save your money and buy a real oblique nibbed pen instead of cheap nibs.