What for? M, B nibs

[mke]

@Frank C

> I read somewhere—probably on FPN—that a former director at Montblanc said that 80% of the nibs they sell are mediums.

I am sure, he is not talking about Japan. Same Montblanc said, in Japan their Nr.1 size is EF (for the people who write with the pen), followed by B (for the people who sign with a pen) - followed by F and M - very long nothing, then the BBs.

 

If you write like printed in Japanese you "need" a very fine nib. https://www.instagram.com/p/CNMjG0bjs_i/

The more you write like with a brush, you can also use larger nib sizes: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRIkTyUFXCa/

 

And thanks for many interesting answers - actually, nearly all of them are good answers.

 

Here just for amusement: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRJb4ptj_06/

[Frank C]

Is this what you're talking about?

 

https://mitsurunagata.com/2020/05/06/montblanc/ 

[Doug C]

I am a very slow writer so broad nibs don't work for me but I have seen videos of quick writers using medium and broad nibs that look wonderful. 

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, mke said:

The more you write like with a brush, you can also use larger nib sizes: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRIkTyUFXCa/

 

I don't think you can make the long narrowing brush-like strokes with a ‘Western’ round-tipped B nib. I can see how what the calligrapher shown in that clip was doing is for sheer expressive enjoyment and showing off ink properties (including colour) as with painting; but not with the sort of regular B nib most participants in English-speaking forums talk about.

[mke]

@Frank C

> Is this what you're talking about?

 

Didn't had that in mind, the information from Montblanc dates well before that nib came into existence.

[PithyProlix]

For cursive - my 'normal' writing - I prefer Japanese fine, Western extra fines, and italics less than 1.0mm wide because of the crisp look these give to the line. 

 

[tde44x]

My handwriting improved dramatically (still poor though) when I started to use B and stub nibs. Yes the paper matters more and you use more ink and more space but they force me to slow down a tad which makes my writing neater and easier to read.

 

All in all it makes writing more enjoyable.

 

I now have more B & stub nibs than all of my others put together and the only M nibs in my rotation anymore are a Lamy Studio with a very wet (looks more like a B nib and a MB149.

[bunnspecial]

16 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

strokes with a ‘Western’ round-tipped B nib

 

Perhaps it's a difference in terminology, but at least on Montblancs a B nib is not exactly what I'd call round.

 

Here's one that actually writes closer to what you might call a typical M width line(or at least by modern sizing standards) but which I've never questioned as anything other than a B based on the shape of the nib. I don't have any documentation stating what this was sold as, but there again I don't think I'd get a single argument if I were to claim or list this for sale as a B nib.

 

These nibs do have some stub character to them, although it's not dramatic. Every German BB and wider nib I've handled was very much a stub,

 

[Yohaanrods]

M and B nibs are sheer writing pleasure... I only use F nibs for long writing sessions( 10+ pages). The broader the nib...the smoother. 

It's more about the experience rather than the economics

[ParramattaPaul]

I have M and B nibbed pens almost exclusively. The one or two F pens I own may get used once in a year, if that. Daily use is a B commonly.

 

There are two reasons. One, I don't like the scratchy-looking lines produced by F pens. I like what I write to stand out from the page.  Two, I am a lefthanded under-writer. As such, I've often had the experience of a fine point -- even a pencil point -- catch or dig holes in the page as I write. That doesn't happen with a M or B.  Broad nibs especially glide smoothly across the page as I write. 

[maclink]

After using a broader nib and then switch to a F and especially EF, I find myself unconsciously pressing harder since this does result in a somewhat thicker line. This unconscious pressure  is even greater when using an unsaturated ink. So I avoid the paler less saturated inks with F and EF nibs. 

 

OTOH, when using cheap paper that sort of wicks the ink, an EF can come alive in that I get an optimum line with no pressure.  The nib then feels less scratchy. 

 

I am therefore more paper and ink conscious with my finer nibs.  I find that Tamoe River and Leuchtturm 1917 work well with finer nibs.  

[Aysedasi]

On 7/10/2021 at 2:21 PM, thx1138 said:

For sheer writing pleasure.

 

Exactly.  

 

I detest twiddly little fine nibs and can't understand how anyone can write with XF.  The majority of fine nibs I've tried have been a distinctly scratchy and unsatisfying experience.  But then I have big clumsy hands and tend to write large and love laying down a lot of ink!     I just wish as many pens could be made available with B (or better still OB) nibs as they are with fine nibs, particularly the Chinese pens, many of which I would try if they fitted them with broads.  

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, Aysedasi said:

I just wish as many pens could be made available with B (or better still OB) nibs as they are with fine nibs, particularly the Chinese pens, many of which I would try if they fitted them with broads.

 

Well, on the other hand you're more likely to find modern, in-production ‘Western’ pen models, from several (if not many) different countries of origin, with fit-for-purpose Broad and broader nibs than with fit-for-purpose Extra Fine nibs.

 

While some Chinese pens are OK, built with sufficient quality and write quite nicely, the only real advantage is that they're relatively cheap, and so it's also relatively painless to acquire lots of them as expendable fodder and toys. For those who want to write with Broad nibs for sheer writing pleasure, lots of Western pens that demand more ‘respect’ and start from at least threefold the average price of Chinese pens await. Even the Japanese big three makes BB, Coarse, Zoom, and Emperor Cross Point Music Eagle Dragon nibs, etc. to cater to users who like to play that way.

[Aysedasi]

22 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Well, on the other hand you're more likely to find modern, in-production ‘Western’ pen models, from several (if not many) different countries of origin, with fit-for-purpose Broad and broader nibs than with fit-for-purpose Extra Fine nibs.

 

While some Chinese pens are OK, built with sufficient quality and write quite nicely, the only real advantage is that they're relatively cheap, and so it's also relatively painless to acquire lots of them as expendable fodder and toys. For those who want to write with Broad nibs for sheer writing pleasure, lots of Western pens that demand more ‘respect’ and start from at least threefold the average price of Chinese pens await. Even the Japanese big three makes BB, Coarse, Zoom, and Emperor Cross Point Music Eagle Dragon nibs, etc. to cater to users who like to play that way.

 Undoubtedly true but many pens from the big makers are way beyond my budget, sadly.  I only referred to the Chinese pens as I have a few and they all seem to be made as F or EF, very occasionally M, but virtually never B.  As I have observed before, I buy them occasionally when the design intrigues me, but few are revisited after they have been tried out.  

[A Smug Dill]

3 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

I only referred to the Chinese pens as I have a few and they all seem to be made as F or EF, very occasionally M, but virtually never B.

 

I see quite a few Chinese pen models offered with 0.7mm or 1.0mm bent/‘fude’/‘art’ nib options these days, and they are quite capable of putting down broad lines of ink when required. Whereas I seem to struggle getting 0.35mm EF nibs, when a lot of Chinese pens stop at 0.38mm for EF and then half of those are hooded/‘financial’ nibs and not open nibs.

[ParramattaPaul]

3 hours ago, Aysedasi said:

 Undoubtedly true but many pens from the big makers are way beyond my budget, sadly.  I only referred to the Chinese pens as I have a few and they all seem to be made as F or EF, very occasionally M, but virtually never B.  As I have observed before, I buy them occasionally when the design intrigues me, but few are revisited after they have been tried out.  

Will this work for you: Diplomat Magnum Fountain Pen Crow Black | Cult Pens

 

It's a good value, broad nib pen, and very budget friendly.

[Aysedasi]

18 hours ago, ParramattaPaul said:

Will this work for you: Diplomat Magnum Fountain Pen Crow Black | Cult Pens

 

It's a good value, broad nib pen, and very budget friendly.

 

Looks very good value.  Diplomat nibs are usually pretty good, however the pen style is not for me.... 

[dkatiepowellart]

I have no more bleed through with my M, B, or my favorite, the stub, than I do with the couple of F's I have.  It seems to be more about the paper than the nib.  I added this stub to a moonman.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

M&B are for fun with inks. M is great in regular flex for two toned shading inks.

M&B are good for classic rough paper; laid or linen effect....that is impossible for you to use with any super skinny nib.

 

 

Mke....if you want to use an XXXF fine....sure much be the most vivid (boring) mono-tone color in the world.

No shading, no sheen....sigh.

 

By the way, you really got to get better papers and dryer inks....but with an XXXF nib one does need the wettest ink one can buy.

The rest of us don't have that problem.....you are not using Moleskine??? Are You???

 

I do have two or three western EF's....one the regular flex for editing, a maxi-semi-flex Geha EF...that I really got to use some time...easy line variation out to M.

....I gave away my 1745 EF....in I had my new Pelikan 200 EF for editing. Do I need XXF for that...no.

 

So I have the other view, why use a spiderweb or a baby spiderweb nib........AH HA!!!.You are from Japan and have to use super thin nibs because of you tiny printed script!

 

I write in cursive...I don't print, an M lets cursive flow....so does a western F come down to it.....but a western F= Japanese M..

A western B = your BB.......I don't find B to be excessively wide...got vintage semi-flex B and OB and OBB's.....that really puts some snap into the writing.

I seldom reach for my OBB's any more. I use M a lot more than once.

[cactus235]

On 7/10/2021 at 2:07 AM, mke said:

I am always wondering what for B or even M nibs could be used. Most papers are not usable on both sides for most B/M-nib/ink combinations (I tried many). Not to talk about the unwanted broadness, reducing the amount of data I can put on one page.

The example shown below is written with a Jowo EF nib and Waterman Serenity Blue. That is the limit of shine/bleed-through I can except. I know that many black inks and Pelikan Royal Blue have less of it but I prefer dark blue inks.

Unfortunately, Jowo ends here - German EF. I will have to try an XXF grind of a Jowo. Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

Most pens I've owned with medium nibs have been perfectly usable on both sides of the paper with standard cartridge inks or Diamine bottled inks. I have smaller handwriting than yours, but I still prefer a medium nib (or a broad), as I like how it makes my writing more rounded and clearly "fountain pen". 
 

I personally wouldn't call that ghosting or bleed-through. Some ghosting is inevitable when using cheap paper and a broader nib, but it isn't an issue for many people. M is the default for a reason. However, I've been using fountain pens since primary school (mostly with M nibs), so it's completely normal for me.