Questions about old Faber Castell TG1-S 0.25mm

[Darthagnon]

My uncle gave me his old Faber Castell TG1-S 0.25mm pen. A few years ago, I managed to clean it (somehow) of all the old, dry, blocked ink by (somehow) taking it completely apart without the proper tools. I now want to use it, and finally got a bottle of Parker Quink for my fountain pens (mostly cheapo Parkers, and an Oxford). It is undamaged as far as I can tell, but I cannot get it to write for the life of me. I tried using a syringe to drop a little ink directly on the pen writing head, but this promptly flowed out of a secondary spiral outlet (air inlet?) and all over the sink and my hands. 

 

How do I get this thing to work? I don't want to waste too much ink if it's just gonna vomit it all over me instead of write. 

 

The tip, needle-fine, is unblocked. Of that I'm sure, as when I disassembled it, there was a very fine wire that passed through it (and was attached to a metal block). It feels a little like that thing is blocking the flow of ink out the tip, but then I've never used this sort of pen before, and barely understand fountain pens. I use mostly mechanical pencils for art/technical drawing, and then finish up with Uniballs for inking and Caran d'Ache watercolour pencils or Staedtler felt tips for colour.

[Darthagnon]

I'm nervous to try disassembly again, as first time, I used pliers and somehow didn't damage it and don't want to repeat that or test my luck. I tried contacting Faber Castell to see if they sold the disassembly tool individually, but they weren't very helpful. Cross have much better customer service.

[Chthulhu]

Do you have the ink reservoir that screws onto the back of the tip? Air and ink flow are balanced when the reservoir is attached, but without it ink will flow out through the air channel as you described.

 

If you assemble the pen (empty) and press the tip (gently) downward onto a hard surface, then lift it quickly, you should be able to feel the weight on the wire thump slightly as it seats itself and cuts of the ink path into the tip.

 

By the way, *Never shake a technical pen*

 

If you do have the reservoir, fill it partway with ink, screw it onto the back of the tip, screw the barrel on, and try the pen by tapping the tip gently onto the paper. If it leaves a dot of ink, you're in business. Note that this is a drawing pen, and needs to be held perpendicular to the paper to work properly.

 

[Darthagnon]

Thank you so much for the information! I was testing with some water, and noticed that the airflow seemed balanced. 

 

The ink reservoir is a friction fit; it's a 0.25mm version of this pen: https://www.faber-castell.co.uk/products/TechnicalDrawingPenTG1S040mm/160040

 

Unfortunately, I have been shaking it... hope it isn't too damaged.

 

I feel the wire weight move around, but not sure it is exactly as you describe. Do you know if the wire supposed to extend from the metal tip? (mine doesn't)

 

I'll test with some ink in the tank and see what happens.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Darthagnon
info

[Chthulhu]

1 hour ago, Darthagnon said:

I feel the wire weight move around, but not sure it is exactly as you describe. Do you know if the wire supposed to extend from the metal tip? (mine doesn't)

 

 

It's subtle, but you should be able to feel it. The wire should extend, but you might need a magnifying glass to see it. It's possible that the wire has been bent or broken, very easy to do with the smaller sizes. If you slowly press the tip against your thumbnail, you may be able to feel the tip of the wire before the tip of the tube.

[Darthagnon]

Thank you for the info! I think it might be a little bent, possibly from when I first took it apart to clean - a few little kinks are visible, but don't know if there's much I can do about that, or whether it makes a difference to the writing, as the main issue seems to be the attached "weight" blocking ink flow. I couldn't see the wire extending from the tip, despite close examination and use.

 

So I managed to disassemble the pen without breaking it. In my testing with the tip, I managed to get a little ink flowing. It would write for 1cm, then I'd have to tip it back for the "weight" to fall back and let a little more ink through, but it would settle with gravity and block the ink flow again. So I tried removing the wire and weight (I've put them somewhere safe). And it writes. 

 

With the wire and weight removed, it's writing perfectly, better than with it. I'm using slightly watered-down Parker Quink, but I'm expecting it to write even better with pure ink (not sure if fountain pen ink is the right sort, but it seems to be working).  I feel like a barbarian, though, removing a component, but at least it works now. The line it draws is 0.25mm, as advertised, and indistinguishable from other (disposable, fibre-tipped) 0.1, 0.05 fine liners I've got, though it is a bit scratchier, so better on thicker paper.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Darthagnon

[Chthulhu]

The weight is *supposed* to block the ink flow until it's lifted by the wire being pushed up by the paper. These are meant to use technical drawing ink, but do work with water-based fountain pen inks. The advantage with the FP inks is that they allow easier cleanup with water, where the drawing ink requires a specific type of cleaning solution.

 

I'm glad you have it working, though it's likely to be wetter than it would be with an unkinked wire and weight. You might try drawing the wire between your thumbnail and the pad of your index finger to see if you can straighten it.

[halffriedchicken]

I agree with everything Chthulhu said. There are some videos on YouTube on technical pens and cleaning that you should check out to understand how technical pens work in general. The nib unit works essentially the same regardless of the brand in the way it delivers ink to paper. However, the way you take apart the pen for cleaning will be different depending on the brand and model. Some pens have a key at the bottom of the barrel like the Staedtler or Rotring, others use a key like Koh-i-noor to remove the nib for cleaning. I have Koh-i-noor rapidographs and a Rotring Varient (which is the same style as the Koh-i-noor). 

 

Don't worry about the needle being bent. If it moves freely then it's okay. Try not to take the needle out any more if you can avoid it. If you can just clean the nib without taking out the nib, then I would recommend that. The reason is the needle can break and you would need to get a new nib. Unless you have spare nibs then I would recommend not taking out the needle and just wash out the whole unit. It's okay if the needle is slightly bent if you can feel the needle move up and down when you write. The nib regulates ink flow so it is meant to be moved easily and you should be able to hear the needle move freely. If the needle does not move freely your pen may be clogged or damaged. That rattle is a good thing. 

 

I have used fountain pen ink with technical pens for drawing, but you have to remember that technical pens were designed to be used with technical pen ink, which I believe has a thicker consistency. With my Rapidographs by Koh-i-noor, Parker Quink has not worked well in my experience because the ink is too thin, and I don't water down my ink. Watered down Parker ink would not be ideal in my opinion. I use Noodler's X-Feather. From what I know, technical pens were meant to be cleaned out immediately after use because technical pen ink would normally clog a fountain pen like India ink. 

 

In any case, I hope that helps and you can enjoy the pen.

 

 

 

 

 

[Darthagnon]

Thank you for the information and videos! I'll watch the videos, test again, and see what I can do. Will update here.

 

The needle moves freely, but doesn't seem to extend from the barrel or push up the weight.

 

Worst case scenario, Parker Quink watered down seems the perfect consistency to flow through without the needle? I couldn't imagine using thicker ink, especially with the needle, and am slightly worried that even non-watered fountain pen ink won't flow. The ease of cleaning alone is worth it, for me, though. I had a bottle of original ink around somewhere, but it hadn't been touched since the 1990s, and I didn't have much luck with it.

[halffriedchicken]

If the needle moves freely, then your pen is working. You shouldn’t see it extend from the barrel especially since your pen is .25 which is very fine. You may not feel the weight push up when you try to write with the pen but you should feel it move freely if you gently shake the barrel. Don’t shake the pen often because that can sometimes cause the nib to flow and it can drip like with a fountain pen if the nib is oversaturated. You may feel the needle move if you hold the pen at a 90 degree angle with the paper and tap gently.

 

If you remove the needle the pen will not work well. Trust me. If you do that, you would not be using the pen the way it is designed.The needle allows the proper capillary action to take place and the ink will simply flow too quickly. The design of the pen is to use technical pen ink and fountain pen ink is designed for fountain pens. You can use fountain pen ink in technical pens but it will not be ideal. If you look at the consistency of technical pen ink it is thicker by design because different companies use highly pigmented ink. For Koh-i-noor, the ink is India Ink. 

 

Again, I would strongly recommend that you do not remove the needle but it is your pen so you can do what you like with it. I would recommend not watering down your ink or to use thicker ink to get the best experience with the .25 nib. But testing out your ink won’t hurt your pen so you can try your ink and see how it behaves. Your pen nib is very fine and the question is will it work well. Fountain pen ink is watery so the line may not be actually .25 with your watered down ink and may feather and bleed more but if you don’t mind then it may not matter to you. For reference, the average human hair is about .1mm. Your pen should write with a thickness of about 2.5 times the average human hair. Just try it out and see. You might like how it performs.

[halffriedchicken]

BTW, If you want to try different nib sizes, you can also find new old stock nibs from ebay to use in your same pen body. As long as the nib is for the same model Faber Castell TG1-S then you should be able to try different nib widths. I wouldn’t get used nibs simply because the needle in nibs is very fragile and if someone used them they could get damaged depending if they took out the needle when cleaning. 

 

If you have a ultrasonic jewelry cleaner that works well for cleaning nibs. 

[halffriedchicken]

I found a good video on cleaning that you might find helpful. 

 

[halffriedchicken]

This video has a good explanation on how technical pens work and also how to clean them. 

 

 

[Darthagnon]

That's some good info! Thank you, halffriedchicken!

 

Here's a drawing I did (sketch with Rotring Visupencil 0.7, fine inking with the aforementioned TGS-1 (without the needle), thick inking with Helix Oxford fountain pen, Parker Quink (watered slightly in TGS-1, colour with Caran d'Ache watercolour pencils). Scanned with Epson ET-2550 and VueScan; colours look a lot more vivid in real life. I don't know much about scanner settings, but vanilla, it normally exaggerates the blacks and takes forever (3 passes at least) to scan 1 page. VueScan makes it take 1 pass, much faster, and looks the same, with less exaggerated blacks, but some loss of colour, and occasionally bluish-looking paper (as below). Paper is A4 nothing special.

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Darthagnon

[halffriedchicken]

1 hour ago, Darthagnon said:

That's some good info! Thank you, halffriedchicken!

 

Here's a drawing I did (sketch with Rotring Visupencil 0.7, fine inking with the aforementioned TGS-1 (without the needle), thick inking with Helix Oxford fountain pen, Parker Quink (watered slightly in TGS-1, colour with Caran d'Ache watercolour pencils). Scanned with Epson ET-2550 and VueScan; colours look a lot more vivid in real life. I don't know much about scanner settings, but vanilla, it normally exaggerates the blacks and takes forever (3 passes at least) to scan 1 page. VueScan makes it take 1 pass, much faster, and looks the same, with less exaggerated blacks, but some loss of colour, and occasionally bluish-looking paper (as below). Paper is A4 nothing special.

 

I'm glad you got the pen to work for you.

 

Nice drawing. I feel it could be an illustration in a children's story  

[Darthagnon]

Thank you! Wish I could get into it professionally; most I've done is some commissions for friends and Magic: the Gathering altered art cards. I have a story in the works myself, and I'm friends with a couple of published authors, been meaning to take round some pics for them to see.

[halffriedchicken]

11 hours ago, Darthagnon said:

Thank you! Wish I could get into it professionally; most I've done is some commissions for friends and Magic: the Gathering altered art cards. I have a story in the works myself, and I'm friends with a couple of published authors, been meaning to take round some pics for them to see.

I hope that pans out for you one day! 

[Darthagnon]

Short update about the Faber-Castell pen: after successfully using it for a while, the nib got blocked, whether from fountain pen ink drying a little or particles or what I don't know. I cleaned it out, and decided to try putting the needle back in, in hopes it would regulate the ink a little better or stop it from drying out. As the needle does not protrude from the nib as it is supposed to (probably because of a small crinkle in it? or maybe it was damaged before I ever got it), I had the idea to make a small washer of out of some 0.8mm diameter silver-plated wire I have. Bent and cut a tiny little loop, about the diameter of the "weight" to which the needle is attached.

 

This washer holds the weight up, allowing continuous ink flow (it's just narrow enough that I can successfully put it back together). It doesn't seem to impede anything, and the pen is working as before; the needle might not be doing much, but at least it's inside the pen again.

[halffriedchicken]

5 hours ago, Darthagnon said:

Short update about the Faber-Castell pen: after successfully using it for a while, the nib got blocked, whether from fountain pen ink drying a little or particles or what I don't know. I cleaned it out, and decided to try putting the needle back in, in hopes it would regulate the ink a little better or stop it from drying out. As the needle does not protrude from the nib as it is supposed to (probably because of a small crinkle in it? or maybe it was damaged before I ever got it), I had the idea to make a small washer of out of some 0.8mm diameter silver-plated wire I have. Bent and cut a tiny little loop, about the diameter of the "weight" to which the needle is attached.

 

This washer holds the weight up, allowing continuous ink flow (it's just narrow enough that I can successfully put it back together). It doesn't seem to impede anything, and the pen is working as before; the needle might not be doing much, but at least it's inside the pen again.

That's a creative way to try and get the pen to work again. Just a friendly reminder but the last I checked, new FC technical pen nibs can be found online from many sellers in the UK. That way you can try a new nib with different point sizes, thinner or thicker, and you could get a complete set of nibs for not too much money. You can also stock up nibs now while they are still available for reasonable prices. I have Koh-i-noor Rapidographs and got a set of replacement nibs while I could and now those nibs aren't as readily available for reasonable prices where I am.