lathe purchase advice requested

[tmenyc]

Agree with Ron. Even using a fine tap or die on the lathe is better than using it anywhere else; at least then you know it's chucked in straight even if the lathe is not doing the actual threading.  It was a big challenge for me; rigidity issues with the lathe reared up. Once I fixed them it's been pretty clear sailing. 

Tim

[Ron Z]

12 hours ago, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

Ron, are these the lathes you are talking about?

https://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-x-12-inch-precision-mini-lathe-93799.html?utm_source=go&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=shortener&cid=go_social
https://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-x-10-inch-precision-mini-lathe-93212.html?utm_source=go&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=shortener&cid=go_social

 

 

Yes.  The Micro-mark has a better motor, as does the Grizzly.  Littlemachineshop.com has some nice lathes, and also sells accessories that fit the Seig lathes.  Varmantal's mini lathe page has some interesting reading, and ways to get more out of the lathe.

 

A bigger lathe, and better made would be nice, but  I simply do not have the space for one. 

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

thank you Ron.

 

now, since we don't have a harbour freight in Canada, and in this instance, the Canadian equivalent: Princess Auto, is a giant let down and doesn't carry ANY lathes..

 

Sadly, that means that amazon might end up being my best option

on that note, are these the same as the HF ones, but blue instead of red? they look a lot a like to me...

 

https://www.amazon.ca/BestEquip-Infinitely-Variable-Spindle-Various/dp/B01NASLE8H/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=lathe+mini+metal&qid=1624641446&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTUVGVTlZV0NDMEFRJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTE2MjA1MldIVU4xRUJPU0E5UiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDIzMzY1MTRMNk1VVUlOTEVTTiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

https://www.amazon.ca/BestEquip-Infinitely-Variable-Spindle-Various/dp/B07CZBPZVV/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=lathe+mini+metal+10&qid=1624641669&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySDZTRzJETjE4S1lOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTQ4OTM5MlZSNkpZOFgxRzlOQyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzM5ODc3SFpKM1hTTExYUzlZJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

the 7X12 is at a price that I can realistically hope to pay. Not TODAY, but someday in the not tooooo distant future... maybe in a yr or so.

 

(we happen to have a lot of larger expenses coming up in the next 6-10 months, but they are GENERALLY good ones, so it's ok)

 

If they are the same then I can bookmark them, and at the very least, I also know what to keep an eye out for  

 

 

[Ron Z]

ITIHAP knows about this already....  We were at a flea market this morning in east central Ohio.  Someone there had a Harbor Freight 7X10 lathe for sale.  The lathe is unused - still has some of the original packing grease needs to be cleaned off.  You always do when you buy one of these.  I got to test the lathe, and it runs,  tumbler gears (forward and reverse), and the lead screw works left hand and right hand.  The only thing significant is that the change gears for turning threads (other than the ones already on the lathe) are missing.  You can buy a set at littlemachineshop.com for a bit under $40 plus shipping, so not a significant problem.

 

Current retail is $700.  He's asking $275, and I think would go $250.  No connection,never met the guy before, but I would like him to be able to sell the lathe, and someone here who could use it, get it.  He might sell it, but that's the wrong market for selling it.  I came that close to buying it as a backup.

 

Contact me BC by either PM or email, and I'll give you his name an number.  

[Storch]

23 hours ago, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

Duly noted. In fact, I have screen shotted that post and filed it in my photos library for future reference! 

150$ USD for a single tap or die is... prohibitive to say the least!

 

Thank you Ron

Given that you are not in a rush, keep an eye out on penturners.org as they periodically do group buys for taps and dies. 

Unfortunately, the last group buy just wrapped up and should be shipping out sometime next month but I am sure there will be another.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

2 hours ago, Ron Z said:

ITIHAP knows about this already....  We were at a flea market this morning in east central Ohio.  Someone there had a Harbor Freight 7X10 lathe for sale.  The lathe is unused - still has some of the original packing grease needs to be cleaned off.  You always do when you buy one of these.  I got to test the lathe, and it runs,  tumbler gears (forward and reverse), and the lead screw works left hand and right hand.  The only thing significant is that the change gears for turning threads (other than the ones already on the lathe) are missing.  You can buy a set at littlemachineshop.com for a bit under $40 plus shipping, so not a significant problem.

 

Current retail is $700.  He's asking $275, and I think would go $250.  No connection,never met the guy before, but I would like him to be able to sell the lathe, and someone here who could use it, get it.  He might sell it, but that's the wrong market for selling it.  I came that close to buying it as a backup.

 

Contact me BC by either PM or email, and I'll give you his name an number.  

Thanks again to you Ron for spotting this and letting me/us know about it

I hope someone here is in a position to give it a good home.

 

2 hours ago, Storch said:

Given that you are not in a rush, keep an eye out on penturners.org as they periodically do group buys for taps and dies. 

Unfortunately, the last group buy just wrapped up and should be shipping out sometime next month but I am sure there will be another.

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind  

[trmsw]

On 6/24/2021 at 4:01 AM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

What was the lathe you had in mind? I'd still like to check it out

It was this one, more or less- don't be fooled by the price, the link is to the US site.

Their price in the EU has just doubled, though though - maybe somehow because of the new VAT rules (?)

 

 

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

4 hours ago, trmsw said:

It was this one, more or less- don't be fooled by the price, the link is to the US site.

Their price in the EU has just doubled, though though - maybe somehow because of the new VAT rules (?)

 

 

Ah, yes, thanks 

I guess this is what Ron meant when he said all the lathes of that type were made by the one company, and different branding

[Ron Z]

5 hours ago, trmsw said:

It was this one, more or less- don't be fooled by the price, the link is to the US site.

Their price in the EU has just doubled, though though - maybe somehow because of the new VAT rules (?)

 

 

 

That's a Sieg lathe, similar to the Harbor Freight and the Micro-Mark.  A few features up from HF with the cam lock tail stock (a nice feature to have),  and different motor controls, which I think are what they put on the 14" lathe vs the HF 10".   The one shown is set up for metric threads, so the change gears and the lead screw will be a bit different.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

29 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

 

That's a Sieg lathe, similar to the Harbor Freight and the Micro-Mark.  A few features up from HF with the cam lock tail stock (a nice feature to have),  and different motor controls, which I think are what they put on the 14" lathe vs the HF 10".   The one shown is set up for metric threads, so the change gears and the lead screw will be a bit different.

... never occurred to me that I will have to make sure it's set up for SAE threads!  

 

one more thing to add to the list of things to verify

just to be clear: it's not like I plan for the first time I use the thread cutting to be when I'm working on a first year "51" vac!  

I'm just saying it's good to know that that's a thing I will have to take into consideration when I buy/set up a lathe, eventually... hopefully  

 

[OMASsimo]

My grandfather had a small machine factory and produced lathes for a few decades. I still own one from the late 1930s that was used in the factory for production. And when I compare it to cheap modern ones I’m usually shocked. That old lathe, even after zillions of run hours, is still more precise than most (maybe even all) of the stuff you could afford brand new. So, even if the price is the same, you might be better off buying a good used one. And I would look for one that comes with a lot of extra equipment because you never know what you’ll need some day and then you probably wouldn’t find it for a reasonable price.

[Ron Z]

Well, maybe.  It depends on how heavily it was used.    I had a South Bend Heavy 10, and my dad had his fathers Clausing from the 30.    While the South Bend was't as bad as the Clausing, things were worn enough that you had a couple of turns before the compound rest moved either forward or backwards. 

 

The South Bend went because moving it into the basement  of this house was not within the realm of possibility, and the garage holds the car, but no room for a lathe (as if you could use it 6 months out of the year!)

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

24 minutes ago, OMASsimo said:

My grandfather had a small machine factory and produced lathes for a few decades. I still own one from the late 1930s that was used in the factory for production. And when I compare it to cheap modern ones I’m usually shocked. That old lathe, even after zillions of run hours, is still more precise than most (maybe even all) of the stuff you could afford brand new. So, even if the price is the same, you might be better off buying a good used one. And I would look for one that comes with a lot of extra equipment because you never know what you’ll need some day and then you probably wouldn’t find it for a reasonable price.

while I understand what you mean and it seems like a good idea, there are a few problems with that plan:

1) I don't know enough about lathes to be able to tell if one has the options I would need

2) I don't know enough about lathes to know if one is worn out or not (I know virtually nothing about lathes, just that I would need one to do the stuff I would like to do)

3) there are no used lathes for sale around here; I live in a village attached to a city that exists only because the government exists. The only industry here is the industry of hot air, lies and parasitic politicians. Now if I still lived in Windsor, things would be different in that regard... but I don't (thank God!)

4) I refer you to above where I lamented that when Canadians sell something used, they think they should get at least 90% of retail for it, and if its an antique? well, then it's worth even more right?...

But thank you for the idea, I appreciate your concern WRT the quality I would get for my money.  

 

7 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

 but no room for a lathe (as if you could use it 6 months out of the year!)

My garage is also full, and I have the same issue. And for 2 or 3 of the 6 months you could use it... it's waaayy hotter than I would prefer... Mental Note: next house, get heated and cooled garage...  

[OMASsimo]

1 hour ago, Ron Z said:

Well, maybe.  It depends on how heavily it was used.    I had a South Bend Heavy 10, and my dad had his fathers Clausing from the 30.    While the South Bend was't as bad as the Clausing, things were worn enough that you had a couple of turns before the compound rest moved either forward or backwards. 

 

The South Bend went because moving it into the basement  of this house was not within the realm of possibility, and the garage holds the car, but no room for a lathe (as if you could use it 6 months out of the year!)

 

Well, maybe. It depends on how well it was built in the first place. A good compound bed should be adjustable and can be perfectly precise even after 30 years of industrial production use, apparently. A bit of leeway doesn’t really matter because you have to set the scale anyway. But if the spindle is worn or not precise in the first place, then it is pretty worthless.

[ParramattaPaul]

The only advice I will offer is to have a look at the Model Engineering website.  It has articles on machines, tool, how to set up a shop, etc.  It also has adverts for lathes and tooling.  LINK: Model Engineer (model-engineer.co.uk)

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

31 minutes ago, ParramattaPaul said:

The only advice I will offer is to have a look at the Model Engineering website.  It has articles on machines, tool, how to set up a shop, etc.  It also has adverts for lathes and tooling.  LINK: Model Engineer (model-engineer.co.uk)

Thanks

[ParramattaPaul]

On 6/24/2021 at 3:27 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

As i recall from counting/inventorying the hundreds and hundreds of nuts and bolts in my dads garage stock room when i was a kid, i want to say “national fine “ and “national coarse”   Off to the googles…

Yes!  
 

I was right (bout darn time!)

 

 anyways, it’s how coarse or fine the threads are but beyond that i am out of my wheel house. So I’ll let someone else explain it in detail

Correct!

 

'The whole enchilada': American national screw thread tables for shop use. I. Standard threads (course and fine thread series) (nist.gov)

[fabri00]

For my hobbies which include also repairing fountain pens for my own collection, I bought some years ago a small lathe made from Chinese Sieg and rebranded and distributed from the german company Einhell. This lathe is available under many different brands, everywhere in the world.

It has a distance between chuck and the tailstock of about 12" and 400 W of power.

This is a small but very versatile lathe, not expansive (around 500/600 €), and with many accessories available aftermarket.

I think it should be similar to that one Ron has.

It is of course not a heavy duty machine, but since it turn plastic materials or soft metals, it is good enough for hobby purpouses. Obviously in case I have to turn a piece of stainless steel, I ccannot use my lathe, or I can use it, but I have to cut taking a lot of time.

It can cut threads, both in metric and in inches, and this help a lot when sometime a part out of standard should be made or reconstructed.

Searching on google there are many websites showing mods for this kind of lathe, in order to improve weakness end enhance performances.

I'm fully aware a bigger and older machine will be more precise, and a "real" lathe, and I went many times to buy a 20/30 years old lathe because of the better performances, but at the end that one I have fit perfectly my purpouses, is not too expansive, it not take too much space in my hobby room and has a plenty of aftermarket parts to replace the original one or to be added in case of need. Therefore at the moment it will be nice to have a bigger and more professional lathe, but I dont need it.

At the end of the story, to turn a pen part in plastic or ebonite or whatever material, a precision of 1/100 of mm is not that much crucial.

This is a picture taken from the web of my Einhell lathe:

 

 

 

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

8 hours ago, fabri00 said:

For my hobbies which include also repairing fountain pens for my own collection, I bought some years ago a small lathe made from Chinese Sieg and rebranded and distributed from the german company Einhell. This lathe is available under many different brands, everywhere in the world.

It has a distance between chuck and the tailstock of about 12" and 400 W of power.

This is a small but very versatile lathe, not expansive (around 500/600 €), and with many accessories available aftermarket.

I think it should be similar to that one Ron has.

It is of course not a heavy duty machine, but since it turn plastic materials or soft metals, it is good enough for hobby purpouses. Obviously in case I have to turn a piece of stainless steel, I ccannot use my lathe, or I can use it, but I have to cut taking a lot of time.

It can cut threads, both in metric and in inches, and this help a lot when sometime a part out of standard should be made or reconstructed.

Searching on google there are many websites showing mods for this kind of lathe, in order to improve weakness end enhance performances.

I'm fully aware a bigger and older machine will be more precise, and a "real" lathe, and I went many times to buy a 20/30 years old lathe because of the better performances, but at the end that one I have fit perfectly my purpouses, is not too expansive, it not take too much space in my hobby room and has a plenty of aftermarket parts to replace the original one or to be added in case of need. Therefore at the moment it will be nice to have a bigger and more professional lathe, but I dont need it.

At the end of the story, to turn a pen part in plastic or ebonite or whatever material, a precision of 1/100 of mm is not that much crucial.

This is a picture taken from the web of my Einhell lathe:

 

Thank you

 

Another voice singing the praises of the Sieg lathes

 

 

[Addertooth]

I have a Seig-Sourced lathe as well. It was purchased through the previously mentioned "littlemachineshop.com".  it has been surprisingly good.  From the factory (once levelled), it only introduced 0.00014 inches of taper over a distance of ten inches (less than 2/10ths of 1/1000th of an inch).   These resellers act as a secondary layer of quality control, and their increased price is worth it.  That, and you get a service channel that is not way back in China. 

 

Keep in mind that if you purchase a Seig family lathe, and it proves too short, you can purchase LONGER 16 inch beds from LittleMachineShop.  Then you remove all the parts from a 12 inch Sieg lathe, and move them over to the longer bed. As I recall, the bed comes with a longer lead screw, but if not, they sell it as well.