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Help with a 140



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So I got this 140 and it writes nicely, but there's something odd: the nib looks way shorter than my 400 and even my M205s, as if it's stuffed into the section; when I tried to twist the nib unit out, the nib and feed came out, but without a collar. So I have a few questions, even if I suspect the answers and they might seem obvious to old hands:

 

  1. Are there 140s that look like this?
  2. Is it a sure sign that the collar is cracked?
  3. Which collar would remedy this? I've done some research, it seems one way is to use one from a M200; would one from the M150 work too? I also see new collars made for 400, would those work?
  4. How do I take the broken collar out, without damaging the section?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

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"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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The 140’s nib is smaller than the 400’s.  The feed is shorter, too.  It looks about right, but it does seem like you have a cracked collar.  The 400 replacement collars sold here and there should work.  

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4 hours ago, gyasko said:

The 140’s nib is smaller than the 400’s.  The feed is shorter, too.  It looks about right, but it does seem like you have a cracked collar.  The 400 replacement collars sold here and there should work.  

 

Thank you!

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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Bo Bo Olson

Yep, the nib of the semi-flex 140 is smaller.

The pen was a medium-small pen that was ever so popular in Germany in the '50-65 era. Geha 760, Kaweco Dia and quite a number of Osmia-Osmia-Faber-Castel pens, which were also some of the first tier medium-short pens.

 

The Pelikan 140 cleverly has a longer cap than the other medium short pens, so is @ as long as a 400 when both are posted,, and therefore balances as well....................both pens were designed to be posted, which is why they have great balance.

 

A 140 can be had for @ E-100 on German Ebay, if the seller ships outside of German, which many don't ...not trusting foreign post systems, and must take Paypal, in many rely on the normal for Mainland Europe  bank wire, which costs $35 if done from the States. Here in the Union, bank wire is as expensive as checks are in the State.

I don't have a German checkbook (don't know anyone who does) .....do know my Convid monies  US Government Checks took 2-3 weeks to clear.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

 https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,..Bock nib factory.

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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OMASsimo

Comparing to my flock of 140s and what I’ve seen elsewhere, the correct setting of the nib should be somewhere in the middle between your two pens. One of yours is too far in and the other too far out of the section in my opinion. I cannot tell whether this has anything to do with a broken collar but for sure someone took out the nib and didn’t put it back the way it was installed by the factory. And by the way, there is quite a bit of variance of the factory setting as well.

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13 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

A 140 can be had for @ E-100 on German Ebay, if the seller ships outside of German, which many don't ...not trusting foreign post systems, and must take Paypal, in many rely on the normal for Mainland Europe  bank wire, which costs $35 if done from the States. Here in the Union, bank wire is as expensive as checks are in the State.

Now that ebay manages all of it's own payments and charges, sellers don't have to insist on PayPal. They can also accept credit cards via ebay payment system.

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Bo Bo Olson
8 hours ago, Dione said:

Now that ebay manages all of it's own payments and charges, sellers don't have to insist on PayPal. They can also accept credit cards via ebay payment system.

Didn't know that, in I've not been in the bay for the last 5 years and my wife, has just started back, and ran into that last week. The other things were bank wire.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

 https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,..Bock nib factory.

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Yep, the nib of the semi-flex 140 is smaller.

The pen was a medium-small pen that was ever so popular in Germany in the '50-65 era. Geha 760, Kaweco Dia and quite a number of Osmia-Osmia-Faber-Castel pens, which were also some of the first tier medium-short pens.

 

The Pelikan 140 cleverly has a longer cap than the other medium short pens, so is @ as long as a 400 when both are posted,, and therefore balances as well....................both pens were designed to be posted, which is why they have great balance.

 

A 140 can be had for @ E-100 on German Ebay, if the seller ships outside of German, which many don't ...not trusting foreign post systems, and must take Paypal, in many rely on the normal for Mainland Europe  bank wire, which costs $35 if done from the States. Here in the Union, bank wire is as expensive as checks are in the State.

I don't have a German checkbook (don't know anyone who does) .....do know my Convid monies  US Government Checks took 2-3 weeks to clear.

 

Thanks, indeed I found out the hard way many only ship to germany a few to the EU, and far fewer to other continents.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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13 hours ago, OMASsimo said:

Comparing to my flock of 140s and what I’ve seen elsewhere, the correct setting of the nib should be somewhere in the middle between your two pens. One of yours is too far in and the other too far out of the section in my opinion. I cannot tell whether this has anything to do with a broken collar but for sure someone took out the nib and didn’t put it back the way it was installed by the factory. And by the way, there is quite a bit of variance of the factory setting as well.

 

Thanks, I forgot to clarify: one is a 400, the one that looks shorter is the 140; when I took out the 140's nib it didn't seem to be so small. Both were bought recently, second hand.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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Bo Bo Olson

A 140's semi-flex nib will fint a 400, but looks a bit dorky.

If you like your 400's size, even though the 140 @ matches it for posted length, there will be a tad slight balance difference.

Is your 400 a '50-54? Or '82-97...then has a fine springy regular flex nib. Clean line for both era's.

 

:( The modern post '97 nib is a fatter by 1/2 a width and blobby semi-nail....so your 140's nib is much, much more the fun nib, that writes with a clean line.

Which can't be said about modern Pelikans outside the 200.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

 https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,..Bock nib factory.

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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OMASsimo
7 hours ago, senzen said:

 

Thanks, I forgot to clarify: one is a 400, the one that looks shorter is the 140; when I took out the 140's nib it didn't seem to be so small. Both were bought recently, second hand.

 

The setting of the nibs looks proportional between a 400(NN) and 140 pens. Both of your nibs seem to be from the late 64/65 period and thus your 400 should be a 400NN. Anyway, in my opinion the 140 nib is too far in and the 400 nib is too far out. Should be easy to fix.

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1 hour ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

A 140's semi-flex nib will fint a 400, but looks a bit dorky.

If you like your 400's size, even though the 140 @ matches it for posted length, there will be a tad slight balance difference.

Is your 400 a '50-54? Or '82-97...then has a fine springy regular flex nib. Clean line for both era's.

 

:( The modern post '97 nib is a fatter by 1/2 a width and blobby semi-nail....so your 140's nib is much, much more the fun nib, that writes with a clean line.

Which can't be said about modern Pelikans outside the 200.

 

Thanks BoBo, I've long enjoyed reading your details about pens, I like all my Pelikans besides these two: M100 EF, old style M600 F, 3 M205 EF and an M605 F; probably because I write with a light hand so flex doesn't mean much to me, but I care a lot about how each pens produces different inks. The nibs on these 400 (black, blunt cap, definitely from the 50's) and 140 (black, chrome trim) are very nice, in spite of a stiff piston which I dare not try to take apart and this 140 "shorty" with a bad scratch on the barrel.

 

I'm trying to get a hold of a 140 collar, see if that does something to its aesthetics.

 

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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1 hour ago, OMASsimo said:

 

The setting of the nibs looks proportional between a 400(NN) and 140 pens. Both of your nibs seem to be from the late 64/65 period and thus your 400 should be a 400NN. Anyway, in my opinion the 140 nib is too far in and the 400 nib is too far out. Should be easy to fix.

 

Thanks, I'll keep hunting for that collar, the 400 (blunt cap) writes very nicely with Vert de Gris, it has a stiff piston which I dare not mess with.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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Bo Bo Olson

Senzen, thanks...

I learned much from those that were once here....they helped me so it goes around.

 

Stiff pistons are an easy cure in a Pelikan, get a bit of 100% pure silicon grease (much cheaper and much, much easier to get than a decade ago..when you had to have a local dive shop :headsmack:..A little plastic thumbnail sized flip top gadget, has lasted me over ten years).......use 1/2 a rice corn rubbed around the top of the barrel just under the piston, when the piston is all the way up....some use a toothpick, others swear by a a pointed Q-tip.

A 1/2 a rice corn's worth is good for years.

 

Do that and your piston will be smooth....do that only every 3 or more years Rick recommends; when needed only....not every other ink change or month.

 

I've old Pelikan pens that I greased 6 or more years ago that are still smooth.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

 https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,..Bock nib factory.

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Senzen, thanks...

I learned much from those that were once here....they helped me so it goes around.

 

Stiff pistons are an easy cure in a Pelikan, get a bit of 100% pure silicon grease (much cheaper and much, much easier to get than a decade ago..when you had to have a local dive shop :headsmack:..A little plastic thumbnail sized flip top gadget, has lasted me over ten years).......use 1/2 a rice corn rubbed around the top of the barrel just under the piston, when the piston is all the way up....some use a toothpick, others swear by a a pointed Q-tip.

A 1/2 a rice corn's worth is good for years.

 

Do that and your piston will be smooth....do that only every 3 or more years Rick recommends; when needed only....not every other ink change or month.

 

I've old Pelikan pens that I greased 6 or more years ago that are still smooth.

 

Thanks, I do have some silicone grease but the nib and feed don't want to budge and I don't want to force it for fear of messing up the old feed.

 

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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Bo Bo Olson

I've had that problem a couple times.

Soak the pen and section in 1/4th a cup of water so it covers the nib and a bit of the section for a day or night to loosen up the dried ink.

Could put a bit of liquid soap in the water; I don't but am sure some do.

 

Very Important.

Because the longitudinal combs/rills of the '30s-50-65 era are very delicate.

 

Fold a  a paper towel into quarters, place it on the crook of your left forefinger's first joint. Place the combs there, put your thumb on the top of the nib, and turn the pen body towards you.....gently.

Do not try to twist the nib...twist the body.

 

The nib should loosen up easily if properly soaked, if still hard to turn, try soaking again for another day.

Good luck.

 

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

 https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,..Bock nib factory.

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Bo Bo Olson

Can't quite read if it's EF or F?

Either way it's a nice semi-flex nib...Semi-flex is a flair nib, not a calligraphy nib.

I can remember pressing the nib to my thumb at a flea market and suddenly realizing what all the fuss was about!

 

I what somewhat Ham Fisted it took me some 6 weeks to stop maxing the nib all t he time and some 6 week more that until my Hand was light enough to Demand Line Variation, when I want it.

If you try with a very light Hand, you get natural line variation, where you normally press a bit harder on the first letter the letter is wider, also at the loops, crossing a T, the lines get somewhat fatter than the thin lines between the letters.

 

It will add that old fashioned fountain pen flair script to your writing with out doing anything,.....much less trying to be fancy.

 

Please don't do this Nib Abuse to it. The tines should not be pressed more than 3 x a light down stroke. Go read Richard binders article on metal fatigue.

This is Nib Abuse even if he's using a BB? The smaller lines are ok for a BB, the larger ones not....in semi-flex Is Not a calligraphy nib, but a flair nib.

The swirls are ok.. but only because it's a BB.

The X's are pure nib abuse.

AdtsC9R.jpg

uh0c0kL.jpg

 

 

 

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

 https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,..Bock nib factory.

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Can't quite read if it's EF or F?

Either way it's a nice semi-flex nib...Semi-flex is a flair nib, not a calligraphy nib.

I can remember pressing the nib to my thumb at a flea market and suddenly realizing what all the fuss was about!

 

I what somewhat Ham Fisted it took me some 6 weeks to stop maxing the nib all t he time and some 6 week more that until my Hand was light enough to Demand Line Variation, when I want it.

If you try with a very light Hand, you get natural line variation, where you normally press a bit harder on the first letter the letter is wider, also at the loops, crossing a T, the lines get somewhat fatter than the thin lines between the letters.

 

It will add that old fashioned fountain pen flair script to your writing with out doing anything,.....much less trying to be fancy.

 

Please don't do this Nib Abuse to it. The tines should not be pressed more than 3 x a light down stroke. Go read Richard binders article on metal fatigue.

This is Nib Abuse even if he's using a BB? The smaller lines are ok for a BB, the larger ones not....in semi-flex Is Not a calligraphy nib, but a flair nib.

The swirls are ok.. but only because it's a BB.

The X's are pure nib abuse.

AdtsC9R.jpg

uh0c0kL.jpg

 

 

 


It has an F nib. Thank you for the advice. I’m going to get used to using it with a light touch. It’s smaller so, as you stated, getting used to holding it correctly is the biggest thing. 

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Bo Bo Olson

Let it rest in your hand lightly, from 45 degrees right after the big index finger knuckle to 40 degrees  at the start of web of the thumb...Where ever it wants to rest, don't force it to be anywhere, let it find it's own comfort.

It must be posted, in it is too short otherwise and you get great balance posted.

 

All nibs are subject to tolerance, some may be a fatter F, in the middle or at the skinny edge of F...........don't worry about it....the ease of tine bend could have you writing at M for a while.

But, the nibs of that era, '50-65 and the next to '82- 97 run 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

Have fun, a nice slick pap[er like Rhoda would be nice to write on.

 

TgeekB, you have not listed what country you live, so we can help you get good local papers.

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

Go into Ink Reviews and look at any ink review by our passed Sandy1; our ink Guru, she uses 4-5 normal pens on 4-5 good to better but not out of this world expensive papers. Nib width and different paper can make an ink look like another.

 

Over the last decade or so, she has used 8-9 good papers, so you could make a wish list.

 

I think one should buy a good ream or 100 sheet box of good to better papers for every 3 inks you order. Soon you will have a nice paper collection.

Never Ever use Ink Jet paper; the feather champ.

 

I did it all wrong myself, first the pens, then the inks....and finally the papers.:(

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

 https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,..Bock nib factory.

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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