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Rest In Peace Tomoe River :’(


collectorofmanythings

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4 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I suspect “people like it so much” only insofar as “people like flex / broad / butter-on-glass smooth nibs so much”; a small minority group of ardent and vocal fans may skew one's perception, if it is not put into perspective that they are not in any way representative of fountain pen users or hobbyists, or somehow more knowledgeable and relevant than their (perhaps silent) peers. I'm sure it's easy to find thirty individuals who have a particular trait or specific preference, and while it's grammatically correct to term that small subset as “people”, it does not make them a valid synecdoche of all “people” who use fountain pens, buy paper, are omnivorous, etc.

 

Personally, having bought packs of the four variants of Tomoe River FP paper to try out, I don't see any of them as worthy of the hype prevalent in the small section of the fountain pen user community that is active in online discussion forums. Not that Tomoe River FP isn't great at eliciting sheen or resisting bleed-through from ink marks; it is very good at that. But then, an ink that is ‘good’ at exhibiting shading is apt to do so on Clairefontaine, Maruman, Midori, Studio Milligram, etc. paper as well; and a ‘sheening’ ink is apt to do so even on a humble Rhodia DotPad or certain cheap Daiso-branded notebooks (as opposed to Maruman or Kokuyo Campus notepads sold in Daiso stores).

 

In any case, if “people” are still buying and selling Parker Penman Sapphire ink so many years after the product was discontinued by the manufacturer, I'm sure it'll be a long time before Tomoe River FP paper truly becomes unobtainium. Some “people“ may lament lost opportunities to buy something at the manufacturer's, or regional distributor's, recommended retail price (or less!) — as I'm often prone to do myself, quite pointlessly — while others won't stand for others in the hobby “profiteering”; but the physical and technical qualities of the product, which are what supposedly make Tomoe River FP so special, is a logically separate matter from the asking price per unit and whether there are more economical alternatives available.

Thank you, Smug Dill.

I perfectly understand :) 

Anyway, I have no regret at all: I tried it and made my own opinion that was always useful. 

 

 

 

All the best is only beginning now...

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I have TR in 52 and 68 gsm.  It's my favorite loose sheet paper. The only pen nib that almost always shows through on the reverse is my M1000 stub and medium nibs for reasons well-known. But even that doesn't bother me  as I don't use the reverse side to write on.

 

My bound notebooks are Black-n-Red casebound notebooks from Amazon. Every pen  I own does well on this paper.

 

 

 I have a lot of TR paper stockpiled and will last me until I'm dead. I would miss that paper if it wasn't available, but I'm sure I could find another suitable paper as I remember writing for years and being happy before I discovered TR. Things come and go.

 

'We live in times where smart people must be silenced so stupid people won't be offended."

 

Clip from Ricky Gervais' new Netflix Special

 

 

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12 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I suspect “people like it so much” only insofar as “people like flex / broad / butter-on-glass smooth nibs so much”; a small minority group of ardent and vocal fans may skew one's perception, if it is not put into perspective that they are not in any way representative of fountain pen users or hobbyists, or somehow more knowledgeable and relevant than their (perhaps silent) peers. I'm sure it's easy to find thirty individuals who have a particular trait or specific preference, and while it's grammatically correct to term that small subset as “people”, it does not make them a valid synecdoche of all “people” who use fountain pens, buy paper, are omnivorous, etc.

 

Personally, having bought packs of the four variants of Tomoe River FP paper to try out, I don't see any of them as worthy of the hype prevalent in the small section of the fountain pen user community that is active in online discussion forums. Not that Tomoe River FP isn't great at eliciting sheen or resisting bleed-through from ink marks; it is very good at that. But then, an ink that is ‘good’ at exhibiting shading is apt to do so on Clairefontaine, Maruman, Midori, Studio Milligram, etc. paper as well; and a ‘sheening’ ink is apt to do so even on a humble Rhodia DotPad or certain cheap Daiso-branded notebooks (as opposed to Maruman or Kokuyo Campus notepads sold in Daiso stores).

 

In any case, if “people” are still buying and selling Parker Penman Sapphire ink so many years after the product was discontinued by the manufacturer, I'm sure it'll be a long time before Tomoe River FP paper truly becomes unobtainium. Some “people“ may lament lost opportunities to buy something at the manufacturer's, or regional distributor's, recommended retail price (or less!) — as I'm often prone to do myself, quite pointlessly — while others won't stand for others in the hobby “profiteering”; but the physical and technical qualities of the product, which are what supposedly make Tomoe River FP so special, is a logically separate matter from the asking price per unit and whether there are more economical alternatives available.

 

Your point is well stated.  

 

For some of us, there is a certain "je ne sais quoi" with 52gsm Tomoe River.  It is how the ink behaves, the smoothness, but also crinkly behavior of the paper.  It is how all of this comes together.  And there are practical aspects as well.  I appreciate the high number of pages per notebook.  It takes me usually 4 months to go through one of my Seven Seas notebooks, as opposed to only a month for a Clairefontaine, Rhodia, Midori or other notebook. As a result, the overall cost of a Seven Seas notebook is much less than for one of the others.  

 

There are many others that really do not care for that aspect in their paper.  They want a heavier, toothier paper and that is certainly their preference.  For example, I have heard that Fritz Schimpf Feinpost is a terrific fountain pen friendly paper.  And there are some terrific Fabriano papers.  So, regardless of what happens with Tomoegawa in terms of their production of TR paper, there are lots of options available.  

"Today will be gone in less than 24 hours. When it is gone, it is gone. Be wise, but enjoy! - anonymous today

 

 

 

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On 7/17/2021 at 12:34 PM, TheRedBeard said:

I have never used Tomoe River paper, but after seeing this thread I decided to try it (perhaps too late...) and bought 100-sheet pack of 52gsm white one on Amazon for circa $23. 

 

I found it quite good... but failed to understand why people like it so much... 

IMHO, It is nice but it looks a bit yellowish compared to my favourite Oxford Black'n'Red, and its surface quality is not perfect...

 

May be I have missed some extraordinary great  features of this paper?.. :( 

 

 

 

It shows shading and sheening extraordinarily well, especially the latter. 

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On 7/17/2021 at 9:34 AM, TheRedBeard said:

 

 

I found it quite good... but failed to understand why people like it so much... 

IMHO, It is nice but it looks a bit yellowish compared to my favourite Oxford Black'n'Red, and its surface quality is not perfect...

 

May be I have missed some extraordinary great  features of this paper?.. :( 

 

 

 

 

I have never loved it either.  In general, I prefer paper with a bit more heft and texture.  Also, some of my inks turn weird colors on Tomoe River paper.

 

But the very thin-ness that would put me off from using Tomoe River paper for writing makes it very well suited for a small format page-a-day planner, such as the Hobonichi Techo.  I wonder what paper Hobonichi will use when Tomoe River is no longer available.

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5 hours ago, ENewton said:

 

I have never loved it either.  In general, I prefer paper with a bit more heft and texture.  Also, some of my inks turn weird colors on Tomoe River paper.

 

 

I agree about the colors. Montblanc Toffee Brown takes on a greenish shade on TRP, which rather surprised me, since I bought it for the warmth it showed in the reviews.

 

But one thing I absolutely adore about TRP is the crispness of the lines. When I compare close-ups of letters on (old) TRP to letters on almost any other paper, the line crispness is incomparable.

 

Cosmo Air Light gives an equally good line crispness (although the increased width of line that people have commented on is quite pronounced), but I haven't tried Toffee Brown on it yet.

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On 7/18/2021 at 12:34 AM, TheRedBeard said:

I have never used Tomoe River paper, but after seeing this thread I decided to try it (perhaps too late...) and bought 100-sheet pack of 52gsm white one on Amazon for circa $23. 

 

I found it quite good... but failed to understand why people like it so much... 

IMHO, It is nice but it looks a bit yellowish compared to my favourite Oxford Black'n'Red, and its surface quality is not perfect...

 

May be I have missed some extraordinary great  features of this paper?.. :( 

 

From my experience there are probably different grade of TR paper. I love the TR paper in my Hobonichi notebook. It is super smooth, very thin but no bleed through at all. On the other hand some of my loose sheet TR paper does bleed through with certain pen. 

 

I too don't like the cream color TR paper but you can always get the white color ones. 

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5 hours ago, Ergative said:

 

I agree about the colors. Montblanc Toffee Brown takes on a greenish shade on TRP, which rather surprised me, since I bought it for the warmth it showed in the reviews.

 

But one thing I absolutely adore about TRP is the crispness of the lines. When I compare close-ups of letters on (old) TRP to letters on almost any other paper, the line crispness is incomparable.

 

Cosmo Air Light gives an equally good line crispness (although the increased width of line that people have commented on is quite pronounced), but I haven't tried Toffee Brown on it yet.

 

Robert Oster Purple Rock also takes on a greenish shade, and Barossa Grape dries blue black.  Both inks retain their purpleness on Cosmo Air Light.

 

Looking back after reading your comment on line thickness, I can see what you mean.  

 

I hope Toffee Brown will fulfill your hopes for it on Cosmo Air Light. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, empliau said:

Wonder what Hobonichi will do now?  Anyone know?

 

Switch papers?

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On 7/19/2021 at 3:10 PM, ENewton said:

Robert Oster Purple Rock also takes on a greenish shade

 

Sheening, no?

Add lightness and simplicate.

 

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On 7/18/2021 at 5:40 PM, DrDebG said:

For some of us, there is a certain "je ne sais quoi" with 52gsm Tomoe River.  It is how the ink behaves, the smoothness, but also crinkly behavior of the paper. 

 

yes, that crinkle

 

the more, the better!

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14 minutes ago, TSherbs said:

 

yes, that crinkle

 

the more, the better!

 

A person I follow on twitter has gotten herself one of those onionskin journals, and now I'm signed up with the provider to get emailed when they're next back in stock. 

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On 7/17/2021 at 10:19 AM, DrDebG said:

I also use bound notebooks for my work.  Recently, I tried an Apica Premium A5 notebook and was very favorably impressed.  Aside for a small amount of bleedthrough with heavily applied ink, the paper is very smooth and fountain pen friendly.  I love the grid format.  These will likely become my work notebooks for the near future.  

 

just a bit off topic but . . . 

 

I choose to issue a retraction here.  

 

I have been using the Apica notebook for a week or two for work, and I have become quite disillusioned.  The paper is only somewhat fountain pen friendly. It is not consistent from page to page, and it feathers with most of my inks.  I do really like the grid format and that it is smooth, but that is about it.  I will have to find something else for my work notebooks.  This just isn't going to work for me. 

"Today will be gone in less than 24 hours. When it is gone, it is gone. Be wise, but enjoy! - anonymous today

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DrDebG said:

 

just a bit off topic but . . . 

 

I choose to issue a retraction here.  

 

I have been using the Apica notebook for a week or two for work, and I have become quite disillusioned.  The paper is only somewhat fountain pen friendly. It is not consistent from page to page, and it feathers with most of my inks.  I do really like the grid format and that it is smooth, but that is about it.  I will have to find something else for my work notebooks.  This just isn't going to work for me. 

 

I'm sorry that the notebook has not fulfilled your hopes for it.   

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16 hours ago, TSherbs said:

 

yes, that crinkle

 

the more, the better!

 

Hear, hear!

 

It's a bonus!

_________________

etherX in To Miasto

Fleekair <--French accent.

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Here's a few Japanese papers I've tried that I like and might be alternatives to TR (note that I don't use many sheening inks):

 

  • Cosmo Air Light: All your pens look broader on this paper, but the shading is nice. This quality makes it feel nice to write on with needlepoints, but might be annoying with very broad nibs. I also was not a fan of the drag of the pen on this paper... someone earlier mentioned it's like walking through mud, and for me it's the same.
  • Graphilo: Everything looks great on this paper, but it's extremely expensive. I also had a super-wet vintage pen feather all over it (yikes!), but it might be my pen's problem though it hasn't feathered on say, Midori or TR.
  • Midori MD: As mentioned earlier, the edges of your letters aren't as smooth, but it shows shading and sheening adequately (though not as brilliant as TR). The only problem is that it's cream. If you prefer an ivory or whiter shade, try Midori Cotton. I heard that cotton was more absorptive but the shading seems to show up all right.
  • LIFE: I really enjoyed the LIFE Pistachio paper, but it only comes in lines and grids. Pistachio paper is pretty smooth. I also tried LIFE Bank paper and iirc it was sort of somewhere similar to Midori MD in that it has a texture to write on, but it is not cream.
  • Apica: I tried a cheaper line of Apica, I believe? It was the Apica CD notebook. It's a bit more economical than some of the other options, but I wasn't that impressed. I did experience a little bit of feathering with wet vintage pens, and otherwise it was just extremely normal. Other Apica lines may be better.
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On 7/19/2021 at 4:49 AM, Ergative said:

I agree about the colors. Montblanc Toffee Brown takes on a greenish shade on TRP, which rather surprised me, since I bought it for the warmth it showed in the reviews.

I have had Diamine Chocolate Brown, in a really broad, wet pen, have a sort of green halo appear. But I cannot agree about Toffee Brown being a warm color, to me it looks like a very cool brown, with a purple undertone.

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On 7/22/2021 at 12:30 PM, TSherbs said:

 

yes, that crinkle

 

the more, the better!

Have to agree!

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On 7/22/2021 at 11:28 PM, DrDebG said:

 

just a bit off topic but . . . 

 

I choose to issue a retraction here.  

 

I have been using the Apica notebook for a week or two for work, and I have become quite disillusioned.  The paper is only somewhat fountain pen friendly. It is not consistent from page to page, and it feathers with most of my inks.  I do really like the grid format and that it is smooth, but that is about it.  I will have to find something else for my work notebooks.  This just isn't going to work for me. 

Same for me. I used to love Apica, but once I tried TR I never used it again.

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