Rest In Peace Tomoe River :’(

[collectorofmanythings]

1 hour ago, bonnie-scott said:

patina/character/authenticity all god words to use when selling damage or incomplete items 🤣

Ha! Very funny @bonnie-scott! But if you were to sell it wait a few years as Tomoe River is still readily available (I have started to buy as much as I possibly can to last me as long as possible already!)

[Ergative]

7 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

Hmm, it seems a lot of people like this. Does it show sheen well?

Yes.

[como]

I had seen in another thread that Tomoe River was going out of business. Through a quick read somehow I had thought that the news was not true, but it looks like it's really happening? I have been using TR notebooks for journaling. I'd better go to the shop to buy my last batch/hoard.😐

[A Smug Dill]

15 minutes ago, como said:

I had seen in another thread that Tomoe River was going out of business.

 

If you mean Tomoegawa the Japanese company, then no, it isn't. Tomoe River FP paper as one group of products within the papermaking arm of the business, and not a company or merchant in its own right, would be a different concern.

[como]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

If you mean Tomoegawa the Japanese company, then no, it isn't. Tomoe River FP paper as one group of products within the papermaking arm of the business, and not a company or merchant in its own right, would be a different concern.

I think it was in this thread, but I didn’t read it in detail. 

If the bottom line is “no more Tomoe River paper”, I will probably go buy some more TR notebooks. I really like them. Also the loose A4 sheets which I’ve enjoyed writing letters on.

[cnnlim]

Oh NO ! That is really a bad news. I love Tomoe River paper !!!! I need to go grab what is available now.

[MarcoA63]

Frankly? I don't care. I've been using Rhodia paper and I find it perfect for my fp use. As well as inkjet paper. To each its own, I have to say 🤪

[genedan]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:58 PM, collectorofmanythings said:

Oh, I heard that the machines had broken, as well as the cost of wood pulp had gone up, and after the machines broke they didn’t want to spend the money to fix them and that was the final straw. And I said that they could raise prices, I’m absolutely certain that people would still buy it. And a petition can’t hurt, can it?

 

Economically my guess is that demand is low even to the point where raising prices wouldn't cover fixed costs, which is not a good place to be if you want to stay in business. Information about the machine needing repair is what led to my conclusion. Raise prices and demand will fall, and it looks like the fall in demand + fixed costs outweigh the increase in revenue from the remaining customers.

[collectorofmanythings]

2 hours ago, genedan said:

 

Economically my guess is that demand is low even to the point where raising prices wouldn't cover fixed costs, which is not a good place to be if you want to stay in business. Information about the machine needing repair is what led to my conclusion. Raise prices and demand will fall, and it looks like the fall in demand + fixed costs outweigh the increase in revenue from the remaining customers.

I know, I know, TR is no longer profitable, I just really miss it

 

[collectorofmanythings]

17 hours ago, Ergative said:

Yes.

Ooh! Where can you buy a notebook of it?

[Ergative]

On 6/17/2021 at 1:41 AM, collectorofmanythings said:

Ooh! Where can you buy a notebook of it?

There's a seller on etsy called danika58 who sells a wide variety of sizes of CAL paper. At the moment the fat A5 blank notebooks are sold out, but there are lots of others with ruled or grid or dot, and there are other sizes that are blank. Galen Leather also will start selling some CAL notebooks, but they're out of stock (which I think actually means 'not yet in stock').

 

Also, FYI, Nanami paper is back in stock with some Writer journals using the old TRP (they stocked up before the change), and there's a seller called Odyssey Notebooks who's getting ready to take pre-orders on a set of TRP notebooks in various sizes that will be made with old TRP (again, they stocked up before the change). The seller has mentioned experimenting with different page counts if the current run sells out, which I think means that the current run is only a subset of their stock of old TRP. So there are still TRP products floating around.

 

Also, Stylo and Plume have some of the old TRP in the 100-sheet packets from Sakae. I ordered a few packets a couple weeks ago because I saw they were available through Amazon and was curious to see what would arrive. what came was indistinguishable from my old TRP. (I ordered the white blank A4 52gsm).

[collectorofmanythings]

19 hours ago, Ergative said:

There's a seller on etsy called danika58 who sells a wide variety of sizes of CAL paper. At the moment the fat A5 blank notebooks are sold out, but there are lots of others with ruled or grid or dot, and there are other sizes that are blank. Galen Leather also will start selling some CAL notebooks, but they're out of stock (which I think actually means 'not yet in stock').

 

Also, FYI, Nanami paper is back in stock with some Writer journals using the old TRP (they stocked up before the change), and there's a seller called Odyssey Notebooks who's getting ready to take pre-orders on a set of TRP notebooks in various sizes that will be made with old TRP (again, they stocked up before the change). The seller has mentioned experimenting with different page counts if the current run sells out, which I think means that the current run is only a subset of their stock of old TRP. So there are still TRP products floating around.

 

Also, Stylo and Plume have some of the old TRP in the 100-sheet packets from Sakae. I ordered a few packets a couple weeks ago because I saw they were available through Amazon and was curious to see what would arrive. what came was indistinguishable from my old TRP. (I ordered the white blank A4 52gsm).

Thanks!

[bunnspecial]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:02 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 

And how are you going to bring back the wholesale demand for using Tomoe River in printed material? Run a campaign to corral believers worldwide into only buying Bibles printed on Tomoe River paper?

 

Is TR used for Bible printing?

 

When I bought my first pack of it, my immediate reaction was "this looks and feels like Bible paper" but didn't research beyond there.

 

I admit to not paying regular attention to where most Bibles source their paper. I know that the paper in my own personal study Bible certainly is very FP friendly(considering the number of notes I've made in it) but again I've never looked to see where the paper is sourced. It's certainly not an unusual looking and feeling paper, at least for leather/leatherette bound ones(sometimes hardbound uses somewhat thicker paper).

 

I've been using the same study Bible for about 10 years now. It was not an inexpensive one when I bought it, and presumably a lot of that pays for the work that went into writing the commentary. Still, though, I had the same edition hardbound that I used for a few years, and it was ~$40 while the leatherette bound one was close to $100. A higher quality paper could certainly explain the cost difference...

[A Smug Dill]

8 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

Is TR used for Bible printing?

 

https://www.fudefan.com/2021/06/tomoe-river/

Quote

In 1981, Tomoegawa introduced Tomoe River, a lightweight, coated paper stock. It was originally designed for commercial printing, and the very first use case was Bible printing. Magazines and booklets soon followed.

 

http://www.pen-info.jp/library/all/note/20200428_16056.html

Quote

「トモエリバー」は巴川製紙所によって1981年に作り出され、その翌年に市場に登場した。実は、はじめは手帳用紙として作られた紙ではなかった。では何のための紙だったのか。それは、輸出用の聖書用紙だったという。

 

It's on the Internet, so it must be true. Amen.

[TheRedBeard]

I have never used Tomoe River paper, but after seeing this thread I decided to try it (perhaps too late...) and bought 100-sheet pack of 52gsm white one on Amazon for circa $23. 

 

I found it quite good... but failed to understand why people like it so much... 

IMHO, It is nice but it looks a bit yellowish compared to my favourite Oxford Black'n'Red, and its surface quality is not perfect...

 

May be I have missed some extraordinary great  features of this paper?..  

 

 

 

[DrDebG]

I have heard many of the same things written above about Tomoegawa.  TR paper just isn't profitable enough for them, which causes great sadness amongst those of us who love TR paper.  I have not tried the "new" TR paper, so I can not comment on this.  

 

I have tried Cosmo Air Light.  I purchased a journal from JetPens of Yamamoto's Cosmo Air Light paper.  I used it for a month and I can say that it is a remarkable paper.  I believe it shows off the unique characteristics of ink better than Tomoe River in many ways.  The colors are brighter and vibrant.  Shading and sheening are amazing.  

 

With that said, however, I found it to be a bit sluggish with wider nibs (Broads and Stubs).  I felt like I was writing through a thin layer of mud, taking more obvious effort.  I did not find this with narrower nibs (EF, F and finer mediums), though.  It also has just a bit more "tooth" than TR.  

 

My preference is still for 52gsm TR especially for my daily journal writing, but I am looking at alternatives.  Truthfully, I still have many TR notebooks left to use.  But I will continue to consider others as well.  

 

I also use bound notebooks for my work.  Recently, I tried an Apica Premium A5 notebook and was very favorably impressed.  Aside for a small amount of bleedthrough with heavily applied ink, the paper is very smooth and fountain pen friendly.  I love the grid format.  These will likely become my work notebooks for the near future.  

[maclink]

14 hours ago, DrDebG said:

My preference is still for 52gsm TR especially for my daily journal writing, but I am looking at alternatives.  Truthfully, I still have many TR notebooks left to use.  But I will continue to consider others as well.  

 

I think a good alternative is Stalogy.  I recommend one of their 365 days notebooks.

 

I encountered the 'new' TR paper quite unexpectedly.  I had bought a couple new notebooks and as soon as I started using one of them, I could tell there was a difference.  The paper was crisper, less absorbent and unpleasantly abrasive.  The abrasiveness led to a less smoother writing experience with my F and M nibs, but especially, the F nibs.  I always enjoyed the smoothness as well as the touch wider lines that the TR would give when writing with my F nibs.  Both of these qualities were now gone.

 

Compared to the 'old' TR paper, Stalogy paper has qualities similar to the 'new' TR paper but is closer to the 'old' TR in overall feel.  I've found it to be a worthy alternative.

 

With broader nibs, it's quite different.  I tried the 'new' TR with one of my pens fitted with a B nib and found the experience to be pleasant. I now know that I can use those notebooks and enjoy them, but with a broader nib width.  This emphasises the point that the nib width and inks being used, markedly affect the writing experience with the various available papers.

[A Smug Dill]

15 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

I found it quite good... but failed to understand why people like it so much...

 

I suspect “people like it so much” only insofar as “people like flex / broad / butter-on-glass smooth nibs so much”; a small minority group of ardent and vocal fans may skew one's perception, if it is not put into perspective that they are not in any way representative of fountain pen users or hobbyists, or somehow more knowledgeable and relevant than their (perhaps silent) peers. I'm sure it's easy to find thirty individuals who have a particular trait or specific preference, and while it's grammatically correct to term that small subset as “people”, it does not make them a valid synecdoche of all “people” who use fountain pens, buy paper, are omnivorous, etc.

 

Personally, having bought packs of the four variants of Tomoe River FP paper to try out, I don't see any of them as worthy of the hype prevalent in the small section of the fountain pen user community that is active in online discussion forums. Not that Tomoe River FP isn't great at eliciting sheen or resisting bleed-through from ink marks; it is very good at that. But then, an ink that is ‘good’ at exhibiting shading is apt to do so on Clairefontaine, Maruman, Midori, Studio Milligram, etc. paper as well; and a ‘sheening’ ink is apt to do so even on a humble Rhodia DotPad or certain cheap Daiso-branded notebooks (as opposed to Maruman or Kokuyo Campus notepads sold in Daiso stores).

 

In any case, if “people” are still buying and selling Parker Penman Sapphire ink so many years after the product was discontinued by the manufacturer, I'm sure it'll be a long time before Tomoe River FP paper truly becomes unobtainium. Some “people“ may lament lost opportunities to buy something at the manufacturer's, or regional distributor's, recommended retail price (or less!) — as I'm often prone to do myself, quite pointlessly — while others won't stand for others in the hobby “profiteering”; but the physical and technical qualities of the product, which are what supposedly make Tomoe River FP so special, is a logically separate matter from the asking price per unit and whether there are more economical alternatives available.

[sandy101]

3 hours ago, maclink said:

 

I think a good alternative is Stalogy.  I recommend one of their 365 days notebooks.

 

Do the Statology notebooks have a lay-flat design?

[Karmachanic]

1 hour ago, sandy101 said:

Do the Statology notebooks have a lay-flat design?

 

 

Yes.  368 pages.