Lamy design - has Lamy lost its design edge?

[Calabria]

9 hours ago, bonnie-scott said:

Pico was introduced in 2001.   and although not a fountain pen there is the Noto introduced in 2010

Thanks for finding that date!

[Astronymus]

On 6/15/2021 at 2:27 AM, Sk33t3r said:

I'd be happy if they created a pen at the Safari price point that had a round grip section.

That would not be a Safari though. And the grip section is perfect for people with the right grip.

[maclink]

All the relatively large fountain pen producers haven't come up with anything innovative in a long time.  Additionally, although I'm not a huge fan of Lamy's designs, they have quite a range.  I don't see why a design innovation issue would be levelled at Lamy. 

[Sk33t3r]

4 hours ago, Astronymus said:

That would not be a Safari though. And the grip section is perfect for people with the right grip.

 

Not asking for a Safari. And the grip section is perfect for people with tiny hands.

[Chandon]

9 hours ago, maclink said:

All the relatively large fountain pen producers haven't come up with anything innovative in a long time.  Additionally, although I'm not a huge fan of Lamy's designs, they have quite a range.  I don't see why a design innovation issue would be levelled at Lamy. 

Thanks for the comment maclink. I agree with your point about large pen producers, but what I was getting at was that Lamy used to be a lot more innovative than it seems to be these days, and especially since the management changes that were made in 2017/2018. I think that the current corporate strategy seems to revolve around issuing different coloured models of their established line and calling these "special" editions. Have a read of the thread about the new brown 2000 and see what you think. 

[A Smug Dill]

On 6/14/2021 at 7:20 PM, Chandon said:

I may well be wrong, but it seems to me as though Lamy is no longer as innovative a company, in terms of its launch of new designs, as was once the case in the 1970s/1980s to 2000s? What do you think?

 

Is such (a level of) innovation still required in the fountain pen market today for an established manufacturer to flourish commercially, though?

 

Another industry and market to which I pay attention from time to time is that for running shoes. Every year all the major manufacturers keep pushing out new versions (and not just novel colourways) of all the key models; but true innovation overhauling design and/or performance characteristics are rare, and I find the endless revisions of ‘new’ to be a distraction and annoying, than being able to just stick with models that are tried and true (to suit my subjective needs and preferences) season after season, pair after pair, in the same colourways or something fresher as the shoes need replacement after racking up so many kilometres.

 

Pens, unlike performance/training shoes, don't need regular replacement, so understandably manufacturers need to create buzz for their products year after year to pry consumers' and fans' wallets open; but I'm not convinced new designs are the way to go. I don't think Platinum has done such great work with the Curidas and the Procyon. Tweaking of established designs? I'm not sold on Pilot's Capless LS and Custom NS, or Sailor's Profit Lite, for that matter.

 

I count myself a Lamy fan (but just not specifically of the Lamy 2000), and I'm perfectly happy for Lamy to stick to its present portfolio of designs and products, and just think of ways to milk more consumer spend out of it; the pens the company produces are not any poorer, functionally or qualitatively, just for not being of innovative or fresh-looking designs as writing instruments.

[N1003U]

Before addressing the original question, I would first discuss the question: "does or did Lamy ever have a 'design edge' to lose?" Is there something in Lamy designs that is inarguably "better" than any of their competitors?

 

Yes, Lamy has some fairly unique, sleek and minimalistic designs, some of which I find attractive enough to own myself. Yes, I would concur that many of these designs differentiate Lamy from most of their competitors (i.e., Lamy pens are often easily recognizable amongst other pens), and thus attract a dedicated following in certain segments of the market from customers who like Lamy and/or somewhat unique-looking designs. Yes, Lamy introduced a number of unique models, especially in the closing decades of the 20th Century.

 

But does that constitute an "edge"? Is Lamy an undisputed market leader? Lamy is certainly a major manufacturer in the fountain pen market space. Yes they manufacture and sell a lot of pens, especially at low-to-next-level price points, but so do others (Pilot?). What is this "edge"?

 

Is a Lamy 2000 any more unique than, say, a Waterman Carène? I'd argue no. Is a Dialog3 more unique than say a Pilot Vanishing Point? I'd argue yes, maybe, in some ways. But is that an "edge"? If so, is it an "edge" that other manufacturers don't have?

 

Don't misunderstand, Lamy is a great company, with good designs and good quality, especially at affordable prices. I suspect and would argue it is Lamy's unique combination of design and manufacturing skills, as well as a highly integrated production approach and effective marketing that makes them very competitive. Lamy seems to outsource very little, to the point of even strategically operating a number of corporate stores, which provide invaluable direct customer feedback. Comprehensive in-house capabilities might also give Lamy a difficult to imitate competitive "edge" that has made them a large and successful manufacturer of writing instruments.

 

But does Lamy have a "design edge"? If so, what is it? Is it the end products themselves, or the whole organizational chain that put those end products into the hands of the customer and make the cash register ring in a way that everyone on both sides of the transaction depart with smiles?

 

It seems to me once the question of "edge" is answered adequately, we can look around at what the rest of the industry is doing and ask whether or not Lamy has "lost" it.

 

Perhaps the fact that popular Lamy products are counterfeited is an indicator that some Lamy pens have design/appearance features others see as valuable. Maybe that could be an indicator of a "design edge". But by that measure the Pilot Metropolitan and Montblanc Meisterstück also have a "design edge", and those designs, at least outwardly, have not been changed in eons.

[N1003U]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:44 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

Is such (a level of) innovation still required in the fountain pen market today for an established manufacturer to flourish commercially, though?

 

Another industry and market to which I pay attention from time to time is that for running shoes. Every year all the major manufacturers keep pushing out new versions (and not just novel colourways) of all the key models; but true innovation overhauling design and/or performance characteristics are rare, and I find the endless revisions of ‘new’ to be a distraction and annoying, than being able to just stick with models that are tried and true (to suit my subjective needs and preferences) season after season, pair after pair, in the same colourways or something fresher as the shoes need replacement after racking up so many kilometres.

 

Pens, unlike performance/training shoes, don't need regular replacement, so understandably manufacturers need to create buzz for their products year after year to pry consumers' and fans' wallets open; but I'm not convinced new designs are the way to go. I don't think Platinum has done such great work with the Curidas and the Procyon. Tweaking of established designs? I'm not sold on Pilot's Capless LS and Custom NS, or Sailor's Profit Lite, for that matter.

 

I count myself a Lamy fan (but just not specifically of the Lamy 2000), and I'm perfectly happy for Lamy to stick to its present portfolio of designs and products, and just think of ways to milk more consumer spend out of it; the pens the company produces are not any poorer, functionally or qualitatively, just for not being of innovative or fresh-looking designs as writing instruments.

 

This was apparently posted while I was busy writing my own post, but I think it contains a number of good insights. I would argue that innovation/unique offerings is/are necessary in a competitive market. Yes, it is necessary to pry open the wallets of customers, so much the better if one can hand the crowbar to the customers and let them open their wallets voluntarily and dump the contents into the till with smiles on their faces.

 

Since usually multiple companies are trying to do this wallet-prying simultaneously with the same set of customers, some innovation is typically required to make one supplier stand out above the others. At the end of all of the hoopla, this "innovation" or "edge" comes down to some combination of "this is a nice product that meets my needs, and is really low priced" (cost leadership), or "wow! that thing is expensive, but it is so cool!" (feature differentiation).

[Astronymus]

19 hours ago, Sk33t3r said:

 

Not asking for a Safari. And the grip section is perfect for people with tiny hands.

I have quite big hands. 😂 My guess is, we Germans hold our pens differently. According to Hollywood for sure.

[A Smug Dill]

12 hours ago, N1003U said:

At the end of all of the hoopla, this "innovation" or "edge" comes down to some combination of "this is a nice product that meets my needs, and is really low priced" (cost leadership), or "wow! that thing is expensive, but it is so cool!" (feature differentiation).

 

I think pen manufacturers such as Pelikan, Aurora, Leonardo Officina Italiana and Sailor have repeatedly demonstrated that using different (swirly, shimmery, patchy, etc.) plastics or even just 'new' colour-blocking is sufficient 'feature differentiation' from previous 'limited/special edition' releases as well as the standard catalogue line-up of tried and true pen models, to do a roaring trade.

[Astronymus]

It's a difference in design philosophy. Less bling.

[Calabria]

I think all this gets very theoretical very fast. If I look at specific examples since 2018, the date in question according to the OP, there are the Terra and Savannah colors, which really speak to the original Lamy designs. Then there are the dialog CC and the forthcoming ideos. I don’t really like the shortened dialog with extra gold features. The ideos seems to have elements of the aion (nib), studio (section), and accent (barrel). That is indeed a bit of a mishmash and not attractive to me personally. But then, I never liked the scala, either.

 

Let’s see what comes next!

[Kaweco]

Hello

Why not think about Lamy`s design edge? Is it wrong or bad or ugly or annoying? You can subtitute with "design- profile" or "design- image" or design business- philosophy". But I think this is only a bad commercial idiom because "business" and "philosopy" do not match together well.

Surely, the last slogan in Lamy`s paper advertising was: "Kein Design schreibt besser" (approx: no design writes better) The slogan before was, and this for a long time "Die Lust am Schreiben" (approx: The fun of writing) Today the sologan is "Not just a pen"......so what??? Not just a better idea???? Do they really come to the edge???

Dr. Manfred Lamy always tried to make nice, durable and timeless writing articles which you can carry for a long time without getting rid of them. Simple looking like the Pico to a jewelry look in the Lamy Lady, but without more ornaments. And each of the design models have a little gimmick: The Pico`s function is like a pocket knife or a syringe! Once I had seen Lamy at a promotional date playing around with his new launched Pico, click out - click in, click out - click in....as he wants to say: Today I had been clicking for 10000 times....there is no damage!

Or look at the Lamy Persona: The clip mechanic looks similar to a cigarette lighter and the function is brilliant.

But the workshop who had made the non cylindric cap closed its doors and nobody in this world could make such caps. The Persona follower, the Lamy Imporium has a cylindric cap and not enough place in the cap top for the clip mechanic. The new clip is IMHO boring.

Even the 2000 has a gimmick, very silent but "I feel it in my fingers", the cap- closing mechanism with its light click. Its no Lamy invention, the first Patent of a twistless cap closer came from Marga Loewen at Matador in Wuppertal/ Germany. Many people do not like the three metal knobs at the section but it is a technical "must" for this silent click that makes you hear and feel "your pen is now closed" similar to the door closing sound of your Ferrari.

Besides National Economics Doc Lamy had studied Philosopy and Theology and he surely had been thinking about his products far more then somebody expects. Do yo know about his many stumbling stones he set himself along his way of developing a new writing equipment? One of them had been a question about what will be when the writing equipment after a long life actully goes to trash.....can we recyle anything? Hear- hear! We have the 60th and nobody had ever heard of "Green Politics"

And Doc Lamy always cared for a low to medium price when he thought about building a new pen

Dó you now know, what design is?

But -alas- Doc Lamy is dead. I hope... his spirit is still there.

Kind Regards

Thomas

[Chandon]

11 hours ago, Kaweco said:

Hello

Why not think about Lamy`s design edge? Is it wrong or bad or ugly or annoying? You can subtitute with "design- profile" or "design- image" or design business- philosophy". But I think this is only a bad commercial idiom because "business" and "philosopy" do not match together well.

Surely, the last slogan in Lamy`s paper advertising was: "Kein Design schreibt besser" (approx: no design writes better) The slogan before was, and this for a long time "Die Lust am Schreiben" (approx: The fun of writing) Today the sologan is "Not just a pen"......so what??? Not just a better idea???? Do they really come to the edge???

Dr. Manfred Lamy always tried to make nice, durable and timeless writing articles which you can carry for a long time without getting rid of them. Simple looking like the Pico to a jewelry look in the Lamy Lady, but without more ornaments. And each of the design models have a little gimmick: The Pico`s function is like a pocket knife or a syringe! Once I had seen Lamy at a promotional date playing around with his new launched Pico, click out - click in, click out - click in....as he wants to say: Today I had been clicking for 10000 times....there is no damage!

Or look at the Lamy Persona: The clip mechanic looks similar to a cigarette lighter and the function is brilliant.

But the workshop who had made the non cylindric cap closed its doors and nobody in this world could make such caps. The Persona follower, the Lamy Imporium has a cylindric cap and not enough place in the cap top for the clip mechanic. The new clip is IMHO boring.

Even the 2000 has a gimmick, very silent but "I feel it in my fingers", the cap- closing mechanism with its light click. Its no Lamy invention, the first Patent of a twistless cap closer came from Marga Loewen at Matador in Wuppertal/ Germany. Many people do not like the three metal knobs at the section but it is a technical "must" for this silent click that makes you hear and feel "your pen is now closed" similar to the door closing sound of your Ferrari.

Besides National Economics Doc Lamy had studied Philosopy and Theology and he surely had been thinking about his products far more then somebody expects. Do yo know about his many stumbling stones he set himself along his way of developing a new writing equipment? One of them had been a question about what will be when the writing equipment after a long life actully goes to trash.....can we recyle anything? Hear- hear! We have the 60th and nobody had ever heard of "Green Politics"

And Doc Lamy always cared for a low to medium price when he thought about building a new pen

Dó you now know, what design is?

But -alas- Doc Lamy is dead. I hope... his spirit is still there.

Kind Regards

Thomas

Thank you for this comment. You have made some good points here. Interestingly, I do not think that Lamy has ever made a disposable pen. On another point, I was very disappointed that the company has decided to discontinue one of their true classics - the Scribble pencils and ballpoints. Those really were innovative designs.   

[Calabria]

@KawecoFun to read! You make Doc Lamy sound like Willy Wonka!  Good points about the earlier designs. I was using the cp1 all day yesterday and it really is a “tool for writing” with the cap posted, like a very solid pencil. 
 

Jasper Morrison made a big deal about the aion being an all-metal construction. I was under the impression that it’s for environmental reasons. Does that count as “edge”?

[bogiesan]

I like my Aions and AlStars. Also my Picos. 

I don't really care about anyone else's opinions. 

[A Smug Dill]

23 minutes ago, bogiesan said:

I like my Aions and AlStars. Also my Picos. 

I don't really care about anyone else's opinions. 

 

How very edgy!

 

[N1003U]

6 hours ago, bogiesan said:

I like my Aions and AlStars. Also my Picos. 

I don't really care about anyone else's opinions. 

I would definitely call an enthusiastic customer base an edge...😃

 

What is it about these models, especially compared alternatives, that causes you to like them?

 

5 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

How very edgy!

 

😜😂

[amk]

Pelikan has had genuinely new models such as the Level, but they don't really seem to have succeeded. Arguably 99% of today's product range hasn't changed more than details since the 1950s.

 

OTOH Lamy is very careful about new models, and I think always has been, but most of them stay around once they have been launched.

 

Lamy are not my favourite pens as I like colour too much (I mean, I'm an Edison Collier Rock Candy kind of person) but I love my Lamy 2000 collection so much (broad nibs!!!) and the Aion is growing on me. Oddly, my favourite Safari is the shiny BLACK Lamy Joy - but then it does have the superb addition of a bright red clip so I suppose it still fits my love of colour.

[txomsy]

Sorry, but... How many innovative nail or screwdriver designs have you seen lately? How many of them were significant game-changer breakthroughs? Hammers? screws? nuts? Page linings/layouts?

 

There is a point when you reach perfection. Beyond that there is little to be achieved. You may have minor changes as fashion and tastes evolve, but the core design will remain if it is already the optimal one.

 

The Montblanc Meisterstück (and Sailor, Sheaffer, etc.. cigar shaped pens) design has been around for.. how long? And yet it still sells, is imitated, and many people demands and favors it over other designs.

 

Lamy opted for the minimalist Bauhaus philosophy, identified the key, core, essential aspects needed to optimally carry out a function, reduced the design to those and made them affordable.

 

Once you have identified the optimal key elements, you will re-use them over and over, as we do with nails, hammers, screws, etc... and the only question remaining becomes whether you want to stick to minimalism or how far you are willing to go to include additional ornate, secondary, non-essential elements.

 

So, how many different innovative nail, screw or nuts designs are out there each year? Why should Lamy be different and abandon an optimal design for fancy, inconvenient, expensive and likely less satisfactory designs? Wouldn't it be better to offer variations that still comply with the quintessential quality and performance?

 

Back to paragraph one. Page linings? I do wonder why notebooks with framed lining, for instance, are so rare. You could have a huge amount of ornamental decorations and layouts and be given a huge choice... yet, nobody complains of the dullness of page lining design (blank, dotted, lined, grid).

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by txomsy
edited for clarification