Stubs - Tipped?

[Rroberrt]

Are any stubs  tipped?  Can’t think of a reason except possibly to protect a soft gold.

[Dione]

All gold stub nibs are tipped or as you say the gold would just wear away.

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, Rroberrt said:

Are any stubs  tipped?  Can’t think of a reason except possibly to protect a soft gold.

 

Don't assume all stub nibs started their existence in user-land as stub nibs. A tipped nib of whatever nib body material — including stainless steel nibs that have iridium points — that has been reground post-sale to (and continues to be) a stub nib would likely remain tipped done right, unless it's one of those nasty cases in which one (or both) of the tines snapped off near the tip, and so both tines have to be shortened to equalise their remaining length and then ‘reground’ to a stub to salvage the broken nib.

 

In any case, Visconti's factory-condition Dreamtouch 23K palladium Stub nibs are tipped. (See Susan M. Pigott's review of the Visconti Homo Sapiens Elegance for an example of photo of one.) Not sure if any pen manufacturer offers titanium Stub nibs as a factory option.

 

Another reason for tipping a stub nib is to not be limited to the tines' physical thickness as the line width for cross-strokes. What if you want a stub nib that puts down 1.5mm-wide lines with downstrokes and 0.9mm-wide lines with cross-strokes? Even if the nib's body is stainless steel, you'd still need additional tipping material to achieve that, especially if the nib has the form factor of a so-called #6 nib.

[OMASsimo]

Let’s put it this way, all fountain pen nibs by quality makers are tipped when leaving the factory, regardless of tipping shape like stub, cursive italic, or oblique. And also regardless of steel or gold nib. An untipped  nib like common for dip pens would wear off rather quickly when used actually. If somebody grinds off the tipping completely, that’s another story.

[Rroberrt]

Excellent response, thank you all.

 

Two questions if I may;

 

1)  I noticed that my Safari nibs are not flat across the bottom. I touched one up to be so, and it made a big improvement in line difference. With all their experience, know-how and modern equipment, I wonder why they don’t do the same?

 

2)  In the interests of do-it-yourself addicts, have you heard of anyone experimenting on tipping with any of the new (hard) wonder glues?

[A Smug Dill]

3 hours ago, OMASsimo said:

Let’s put it this way, all fountain pen nibs by quality makers are tipped when leaving the factory, regardless of tipping shape like stub, cursive italic, or oblique.

 

I guess you're claiming that Bock isn't a quality maker, then, on account of its ‘calligraphy nibs’ for fountain pens being untipped:

https://www.peter-bock.com/products/nib-systems

 

Or Pilot, on account of its nibs on the Plumix series. Or JoWo, on account of the stub nibs it made for Nemosine, or the ones it now makes for Opus 88, etc.

[Rroberrt]

Dill, a post from you has all these tantalizing references to pens I’ve never heard of, (my bad) - and I go scampering happily online.  

[BlueJ]

The stainless steel factory Jowo 1.1 and (I believe) 1.5 mm stubs do not have added tipping material. Presumably the hardness of the steel and the width of the contact area result in adequate wear resistance. 

[Mr.Rene]

14 hours ago, Rroberrt said:

Are any stubs  tipped?  Can’t think of a reason except possibly to protect a soft gold.

Maybe you are confuse Stub nib is tipped...Italic nib is not...

[Rroberrt]

Mr.Rene thank you for responding. You are correct regarding my state of mind. I plead old age, 87.  But i’m afraid your point may be too general - which, with any luck someone more qualified will answer.

[Rroberrt]

BlueJ, makes sense to me, but I’d like to take it further and suggest  that a relatively hard (I think) gold, in stub geometry, would have negligent wear too.

[BlueJ]

I don't know where to look for firm data on the abrasion resistance of gold alloys versus other materials. It is however my understanding (only from others' posts) that commercial gold stub nibs including Jowo's do have refractory metal tipping added, while the stainless steel ones do not. The one example of the latter that I own certainly does not appear to have a different metal or added thickness at the leading edge. Would the gold nibs wear too quickly without tipping, or is it more market-driven, that customers just demand it for the much higher price of gold over steel nibs? For that matter, with the days of one-man-one-pen long past, do any nibs (except consumable dip nibs) wear out anymore?

[Rroberrt]

2 hours ago, BlueJ said:

I don't know where to look for firm data on the abrasion resistance of gold alloys versus other materials. It is however my understanding (only from others' posts) that commercial gold stub nibs including Jowo's do have refractory metal tipping added, while the stainless steel ones do not. The one example of the latter that I own certainly does not appear to have a different metal or added thickness at the leading edge. Would the gold nibs wear too quickly without tipping, or is it more market-driven, that customers just demand it for the much higher price of gold over steel nibs? For that matter, with the days of one-man-one-pen long past, do any nibs (except consumable dip nibs) wear out anymore?

 

2 hours ago, BlueJ said:

I don't know where to look for firm data on the abrasion resistance of gold alloys versus other materials. It is however my understanding (only from others' posts) that commercial gold stub nibs including Jowo's do have refractory metal tipping added, while the stainless steel ones do not. The one example of the latter that I own certainly does not appear to have a different metal or added thickness at the leading edge. Would the gold nibs wear too quickly without tipping, or is it more market-driven, that customers just demand it for the much higher price of gold over steel nibs? For that matter, with the days of one-man-one-pen long past, do any nibs (except consumable dip nibs) wear out anymore?

 

[Rroberrt]

Sorry guys.  Can’t quite get a handle on quoting.

 

I meant to quote (echo) the last two lines of BlueJ’s and bemoan what may be a case of marketing over common sense. 

[A Smug Dill]

20 hours ago, Mr.Rene said:

Maybe you are confuse Stub nib is tipped...Italic nib is not...

 

I think you confuse…Do you claim the factory Italic nib on the Aurora Ipsilon pen reviewed and photographed by @visvamitra has no tipping material at the end of the 14K gold tines?

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326016-aurora-ipsilon-with-factory-italic-12/

 

 

 

[Mr.Rene]

Just now, A Smug Dill said:

 

I think you confuse…Do you claim the factory Italic nib on the Aurora Ipsilon pen reviewed and photographed by @visvamitra has no tipping material at the end of the 14K gold tines?

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326016-aurora-ipsilon-with-factory-italic-12/

 

 

 

 

For me a typical stub nib has tip material on nib´s end like Aurora 88 Stub nib....a typical Italic nib has not tip material on nib´s end like Pilot Pararell... 

The writing desk web site: Italic (eg IF, IM, IB, 1.1mm, 1.5mm etc). A nib ground so that the tip is flat instead of rounded and often an untipped steel nib. Designed to give extreme line variation between wide down-strokes and narrow side-strokes in the manner of a calligraphy pen.

Gouletpens Blog : What is a stub nib? A nib with tipping material that's ground flat on the end. Produces a narrow line on the cross stroke, broad on the down stroke.

 

[A Smug Dill]

@Mr.Rene Exactly why I was looking to Aurora for examples, because the pen manufacturer offers both (factory) Italic and Stub nibs, so I have to trust it knows what is the distinction between those. Whereas most other brands usually only offer Stub nibs as an option but not Italic nibs or vice versa, so in essence they chose their preferred label for broad-edged nibs and stick to that, irrespective of the sharpness or roundedness at the corners, and ratios between the horizontal and the vertical measurements.

[Mr.Rene]

Just now, A Smug Dill said:

@Mr.Rene Exactly why I was looking to Aurora for examples, because the pen manufacturer offers both (factory) Italic and Stub nibs, so I have to trust it knows what is the distinction between those. Whereas most other brands usually only offer Stub nibs as an option but not Italic nibs or vice versa, so in essence they chose their preferred label for broad-edged nibs and stick to that, irrespective of the sharpness or roundedness at the corners, and ratios between the horizontal and the vertical measurements.

SO....It is easy to be confuse about it...and no one should feel guilty to be confuse...RELAX ! 

[gyasko]

What’s to be confused about?  Just look at a few nibs (All Au unless noted otherwise):

 

- Parker 51 factory stub: tipped

- Waterman #4 stub: tipped

- Waterman 100yr pen stub: tipped

- W-E Skyline stub: tipped 

- Parker 75 #72 & #70 stubs : tipped 

- Parker 75 #97 italic : tipped

- Sheaffer Targa stub: tipped

- Sheaffer Targa steel italic: untipped

- Lamy Calligraphy steel nibs: untipped

- Esterbrook 9284 steel stub : tipped

- Esterbrook 9314B steel stub: tipped

- Esterbrook 2214M steel stub: untipped

- Esterbrook 2284 steel stub: untipped

- Various vintage MB & Pelikan broads & double broads (=stubs): tipped

[Dione]

Just like Aurora nibs, Parker 45 italic and stub nibs are all tipped. If they are made from gold then irrespective of whether they have sharp edges (italic) or smooth edges (stub) they come with tipping on them.