An older M400 with an 18K nib?

[Autiflip]

So I've seen a similar question posted before, but that pen was a first generation M600.

This one however, I have no idea.

If anyone could give me a clue to what this exactly is, then I would be very glad.

Thanks in advance!

I have attached some pictures to help.

[brokenclay]

Pre-1997 by the etched cap top logo, post-1991 (maybe) by the band saying Germany rather than W Germany?

 

https://thepelikansperch.com/2019/03/21/pelikan-400-versus-m400/

[Autiflip]

4 hours ago, brokenclay said:

Pre-1997 by the etched cap top logo, post-1991 (maybe) by the band saying Germany rather than W Germany?

 

https://thepelikansperch.com/2019/03/21/pelikan-400-versus-m400/

I figured as much, but I'm really thrown off by the 18K nib

[brokenclay]

12 minutes ago, Autiflip said:

I figured as much, but I'm really thrown off by the 18K nib

As you know, those nibs can easily be exchanged.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Old small 600's nib is @ the same size as the 400's but in 18k (at least on my W. Germany one) in the 600 was the same size as the 400, so would guess it's a small 600's nib in a 400.

The 600's cap has a narrow gold band over a larger one....the 400 but a single band. The 400 has no piston knob band, that the 600 has.

Old 600=fancied up 400.

 

[azur3s0ng]

I believed this is a swapped in 18c nib. It's common especially it's an old pen and you cannot track the source of origin. That 18c monotone nib with special "7" on the 750 is amazingly soft and flexible. Though it's not a flex nib, so please don't over flex it

[Bo Bo Olson]

W. Germany Pelikan nibs are a very nice springy regular flex nib, that has a slight tad more spring than the '91-97 ones. You have to have both to feel the difference.

It Is Not a Flex pen, nor is it flexi.

 

 

I have semi-vintage three W. Germany nibbed pens, a 200 OM, 600 OBB & 800 OM.

And none of the are worth anything with out an 1 1/2 inch thick magnifying glass  to hunt for line variation..........buy only Vintage Oblique

 

Regular flex was once a regular issue nib, also in the States, like with Esterbrook, Wearever, some Shaffers........not Parkers which were nails and semi-nails....less repair costs.

There was also a semi-flex Shaffer in the States in the '50's.

 

3X tine spread set. 

Spreading that set more than 3 X = sprung nibs, sooner than later.

 

Regular flex, the tines will spread 3X a light down stroke when well mashed....Soft +.

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to spread the tines 3 X a light down stroke than the regular flex. Got 35 of them. Soft ++.

Maxi-semi-flex takes half the pressure of a semi-flex or 1/4th the pressure to max a regular flex. Have 15 of them. Soft +++.

 

So with out a regular flex pen.....my system don't work.

Helps to have a semi-flex to rate superflex........I always said work one's way up the flex ladder.

The system goes with the same 1/2's through superflex also...at least for beginners. The more superflex one has the more borders blur.

 

Tomorrow, I'll start agreeing, yep the tines bend and spread so they are flexi; ... compared to a nail.

 

[Autiflip]

4 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

W. Germany Pelikan nibs are a very nice springy regular flex nib, that has a slight tad more spring than the '91-97 ones. You have to have both to feel the difference.

It Is Not a Flex pen, nor is it flexi.

 

I have a 400 with an EF nib. That one I could very well call a soft nib. It takes little pressure to spread it's tines, and it goes up to 2mm.

Not that I'm flexing it a lot, I just enjoy the bounce when writing.

 

5 hours ago, azur3s0ng said:

I believed this is a swapped in 18c nib. It's common especially it's an old pen and you cannot track the source of origin. That 18c monotone nib with special "7" on the 750 is amazingly soft and flexible. Though it's not a flex nib, so please don't over flex it

Thank you! It's less soft than the nib mentioned above, but it does have a nice spring to it and writes wet and smooth.

How common is it to see these nibs? I haven't seen one before this one.

[Karmachanic]

11 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Old small 600's nib is @ the same size as the 400's but in 18k

 

This

[N1003U]

 

 

18 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

   12 hours ago,  Bo Bo Olson said: 

Old small 600's nib is @ the same size as the 400's but in 18k

 

This

+2.

 

Very nice pen though. Have you had that pen for a while, or was it a new find?

[Bo Bo Olson]

7 hours ago, Autiflip said:

t takes little pressure to spread it's tines, and it goes up to 2mm.

I've no idea what 2mm is. Or how wide your nib is when not in use.

 

In I don't have a good modern tool box, just screwdrivers hammers etc....

I eye measure by how wide is the light down stroke to how wide the nib goes when pressed. 1X, 2X, 3X or superflex.

 

With regular flex the modern 200 (reputed not to be as mushy as Japanese 'soft' nibs) , or ' 80-97 semi-vintage regular flex....in soft is too vague. 'Soft' is used by the Japanese for regular flex nibs.

OK lets call regular flex soft+, then semi= soft++, maxi= soft +++....................If you like Japanese terminology.

Vintage semi&maxi are also in the 3 X tine spread set., but easier tine spread than regular flex.

Of course with any common sense a BB is not not going to spread the tines exactly 3 X a light down stroke, like EF, F or M...could be B also.

 

But it's easy to eye measure,

Manifold/nail...1 X, no tine spread. Semi-nail 2 X when pressed hard. An 18 K nail is a nail, there is no soft to it, but some think so...comparing a steel nail to a gold semi-nail....get soft Gold.

A good steel nib is as good and as springy or flexible as a good gold nib....depends on the era, and maker.

Osmia is the prime example of how great a steel nib an be in semi&maxi. They are as great as their great gold nibs. (Some Geha steel nibs were that good in semi as Osmia in Degussa made boths nibs.

 

Regular flex....what some keep insisting is a 'soft' nib....too much Japanese influence. It was often regular issue in the '50-60's in the States and perhaps later.

I wasn't into fountain pens in the '70-90's nor in the States where I can get cheap semi-vintage pens  with what was once normal issue regular flex nibs; so I don't know when Stateside regular flex were stopped being made.

'97 for Pelikan, outside the 200.

...I suspect MB and Waterman might have been about that time also.

Lamy was always a nail.

 

From '82-97 by Pelikan there were regular flex issued.

@ the same with MB, (have two regular flex '90's 146's & the W.Germany 149 below) Diplomat and Waterman. So it was Regular (normal) Issue. These are '88-93 for the Hunter. All but the nail MB Nobliese and C'dA are regular flex.

 

[azur3s0ng]

9 hours ago, Autiflip said:

14 hours ago, azur3s0ng said:

 

Thank you! It's less soft than the nib mentioned above, but it does have a nice spring to it and writes wet and smooth.

How common is it to see these nibs? I haven't seen one before this one.

 

If the 400 you mentioned above is from the 50-60s era, yes, definitely, Pelikan vintage nib is a monster in terms of the softness level. If it's from the M400 which produced later in the 80-90s, that would be interesting. That special "7" monotone 18c nib is the softest among the 10+ old style Pelikan nibs I own. 

 

I don't think they are common to see in today's market. They are the early production nibs from the mid 80s to possibly late 80s or early 90s. The one I have does not have any stamps on it. Joshua from the Pelikan's Perch told me that it could be the domestic version so no custom stamp (E|N or PF) is needed, and the pen did come from a German seller.

[Autiflip]

5 hours ago, N1003U said:

 

Very nice pen though. Have you had that pen for a while, or was it a new find?

I found it from an old guy on the local second hand market. Bought both this pen and a Pelikan 350 pencil for a 150 euros, which is a good price.

 

2 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

I've no idea what 2mm is. Or how wide your nib is when not in use.

 

That nib writes a normal western EF line without pressure, and the OBB nib that I have on my 2chick Pelikan M400 writes a 1.2mm line without pressure, to give some reference. But, I've read that the 50's Pelikan 400 is quite a flexible nib, so a nib that flexible was to be expected I guess.

 

29 minutes ago, azur3s0ng said:

 

If the 400 you mentioned above is from the 50-60s era, yes, definitely, Pelikan vintage nib is a monster in terms of the softness level. If it's from the M400 which produced later in the 80-90s, that would be interesting. That special "7" monotone 18c nib is the softest among the 10+ old style Pelikan nibs I own. 

 

And yes that pen is from 1950. I love it to bits, and it is a pen that belonged to my grandfather. I cherish it deerly.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Pelikan started making pens with nib markings late in '54. I have one. No nib size on the piston knob. (I have 4-5 early '50's including a 100n and Ibis that are not nib marked.)

The 400n, I assume was nib marked not piston cap marked. (not having one)

The 400nn was nib marked. As was both my 140's.

[OMASsimo]

It’s clearly an old-style pre-1997 M400 model. Maybe it was an export model for the French market? In France only objects with a minimum of 750/18k gold content may be marketed as "gold". Thus, many quality pens exported to France were equipped with 18k nibs just for that reason.