Italic and cursive-italic nibs that are in your opinion, superior to the Lamy Joy?

[DrManhattan]

I'm looking to get a new pen with an Italic or cursive-italic nib. I very much like the nibs on the Lamy Joy, especially the 1.1mm. I've read that it's closer to a cursive Italic than it is to a stub. I've tried Jowo stubs, I don't mind them but I prefer the Lamy Joy nibs. I've been trying to find a list of italic or similar nibs that are considered to offer a better experience. I'm in the UK but I'm not averse to importing. 

 

So far I've heard of Franklin-Christoph Nagahara cursive italics being very nice, though having to spend $200 dollars just to get my hands on one of them isn't great. I've heard mixed things about Italix nibs, so if anyone has any experience comparing those to Lamy stubs please weigh in, they actually sound quite interesting and the prices seem pretty good. What I've read about the Pilot calligraphy medium nibs (on the Plumix, Metropolitan, and Prera) varies greatly, from being superior to the Lamy stubs, to offering no discernible difference. Anyone have any recommendations? 

 

I'm hoping to use this pen as a daily writer, so the nib can't be too crisp. I use the Lamy Joy as one, and find it very smooth, certainly smooth enough to write fast with and still see some nice line variation.

[silverlifter]

I've used cursive italics ground by Pablo Carassco (FPNibs), Mark Bacas (Nib Grinder), and Gena Salorino (Custom Nib Studios), and I have a Nagahara CI on the way. All of these are either <F> or <M> nibs, so nothing like a 1.1 italic.

 

For everyday writing, most nib grinders offer a variant of the CI with more forgiving edges. Bacas calls his the Cursive Smooth Italic, and the others have similar nomenclature.

 

I can recommend the grinds of all three for classic CI grinds, but would suggest that if this is your first foray into these types of nibs, you start with either a CSI-type grind, or one of Audrey Matteson's Franklin-Christoph SIG (Stub Italic Gradients) nibs, which will set you back 45USD. These are a nice compromise between crisp edges for line variation, and forgiving enough for quick writing or some slight rotation.

[A Smug Dill]

35 minutes ago, DrManhattan said:

What I've read about the Pilot calligraphy medium nibs (on the Plumix, Metropolitan, and Prera) varies greatly, from being superior to the Lamy stubs, to offering no discernible difference. Anyone have any recommendations?

 

Recommendation: Try it and decide for yourself, even if it means spending money with the foreseeable result of either, “Crud! I should've started with Pilot Plumix pens instead,” or, ”Crud! I shouldn't have bothered with the Pilot Plumix pens.” What you get intangibly, in addition to the physical products then in your possession, is certainty of something knowable from your perspective, which to me trumps ‘saving’ money by making no missteps at all as a consumer.

[DrManhattan]

1 hour ago, silverlifter said:

I can recommend the grinds of all three for classic CI grinds, but would suggest that if this is your first foray into these types of nibs, you start with either a CSI-type grind, or one of Audrey Matteson's Franklin-Christoph SIG (Stub Italic Gradients) nibs, which will set you back 45USD. These are a nice compromise between crisp edges for line variation, and forgiving enough for quick writing or some slight rotation.

Do these CSI-type grinds feel significantly different from more widely available stub nibs? I want something that is closer to an italic than it is to a stub nib. I don't mind if there is a loss in smoothness compared to the Lamy stubs I've been using, just so long as it isn't REALLY crisp.

[silverlifter]

They are sharper than stubs, but without the real bite of a CI.

[Paganini]

I personally like the Jowo italic nibs better than the Pilot ones, but the Pilot ones are by no means bad nibs. Like Dill says, you should try for yourself. Get a Pilot stub and put it in a Kakuno. It will be a fun project, and you'll end up with a fun pen, for not much expense.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Try Pendleton Brown if you want a nice CI.

Could well be he has such Lamy nibs in stock.

 

My 1.5 Joy's nib is more a stub than anything else. So line variation is limited with a nail nib.....for good stubs vintage '50-70's German nibs are the way to go....in out side of Lamy, most were semi-flex stubs in that era.

 

I've a 1990 Lamy Persona 18 K nail, OB, that Pendelton Brown made into a real fine CI B.

The OB had absolutely no line variation as all nail and semi-nail obliques lack.

Finally took that Personal pen out of rotation for the first time in 3-4 years this week.

Pictures by Pendelton Brown of my pen and the work he did on it.

It is much crisper than my 1.5 Lamy nib.

 

 

[dms525]

Unless I missed it, you didn't say what kind of script you would be writing with the nib. If it is a loopy cursive, you probably want a stubbish nib. If it is italic, gothic or other script traditionally written with a chisel-point nib, you want cursive or formal italic.

 

The other point (no pun intended) is how large do you write. If you want a wider nib, there is a significant difference in the Lamy and JoWo 1.1mm versus 1.5mm nibs. The wider ones are much crisper. The same goes for Italic nibs. The Fine CI is very stubbish. The Medium is more a CI.

 

The Pilot nibs are least expensive and are very decent, especially for the 1.0mm (often labeled "CM" or "B," depending on the model of pen.

 

A custom grind is going to cost more. That said, if Pablo Carrasco of fpnibs dot com will now ship to the UK, he does superior work and is less costly than any of the other nib technicians mentioned.

 

David

[DrManhattan]

15 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

 

Pictures by Pendelton Brown of my pen and the work he did on it.

 

 

 

That is some very nice line variation! Is this what is referred to as a "BLS" nib?

15 hours ago, dms525 said:

Unless I missed it, you didn't say what kind of script you would be writing with the nib. If it is a loopy cursive, you probably want a stubbish nib. If it is italic, gothic or other script traditionally written with a chisel-point nib, you want cursive or formal italic.

 

The other point (no pun intended) is how large do you write. If you want a wider nib, there is a significant difference in the Lamy and JoWo 1.1mm versus 1.5mm nibs. The wider ones are much crisper. The same goes for Italic nibs. The Fine CI is very stubbish. The Medium is more a CI.

 

The Pilot nibs are least expensive and are very decent, especially for the 1.0mm (often labeled "CM" or "B," depending on the model of pen.

 

A custom grind is going to cost more. That said, if Pablo Carrasco of fpnibs dot com will now ship to the UK, he does superior work and is less costly than any of the other nib technicians mentioned.

 

David

I'd be using an italic script most likely. I generally tend to write on the smaller side, I've found 1.1mm to be pretty good for me so far, at least using Lamy nibs that is. I have looked into custom grinding, FPnibs has so many glowing testimonials! First I'll have to experiment with some cheaper nibs so I know which grind to get! So in the meantime I think I'll purchase one of the Pilot CM nibs, and an Italix medium italic nib, to see which side of the smooth-crisp spectrum I prefer. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I don't know what a BLS nib is.

 

Pendelton just made it a very nice CI four five years ago.

[collectorofmanythings]

Steel JoWo stubs. They come on many different pens, but I personally love the Conklin Duragraph.

[dms525]

On 6/6/2021 at 9:01 AM, DrManhattan said:

I'd be using an italic script most likely. I generally tend to write on the smaller side, I've found 1.1mm to be pretty good for me so far, at least using Lamy nibs that is. I have looked into custom grinding, FPnibs has so many glowing testimonials! First I'll have to experiment with some cheaper nibs so I know which grind to get! So in the meantime I think I'll purchase one of the Pilot CM nibs, and an Italix medium italic nib, to see which side of the smooth-crisp spectrum I prefer. 

 

For a long time, I thought that "crisp" defined as the degree of thick/thin line differentiation and "smooth" defined as toleration of mild degrees of pen rotation without catching were reciprocal. I have found that the really, really good nib technicians can grind a very crisp nib that is also quite smooth.

 

In my half-vast experience, Lamy 1.1 and Italic fine and medium italic nibs are not as crisp as I like for italic handwriting. The Pilot CM nibs are quite crisp and moderately smooth. Stipula italic nibs are wonderful, even the steel ones. JoWo steel stub nibs are very good, usually. Beyond those, you are talking serious money, e.g., Pelikan pens with custom grinds, Aurora gold nibs, etc.

 

David

[atomix]

Went down this road a few years ago, and agree with everyone here that says you just have to try them with your writing!  The Pilot stub is incredible for the price, but I smoothed the edges out a lot to work with my cursive script.  Very similar experience with the Lamy 1.1, maybe a little more forgiving to start.

 

Then I bought a BLS from Pendleton and all the tweaking was done already!  Great nib, super smooth, hard to make it write anything but glassy!

[AlexLeGrande]

The Matsuyama cursive italic on my Franklin Christoph XLV.  A sharp fine nib with great character.

[WalterC]

I like the Parson's Essential Italix pen from  https://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d184.html  (55 pounds incl VAT). Pilot Plumix and Pluminix pens are available cheap on UK Amazon; I think the medium is an italic medium. Both the Italix and Plumix write smoothly. 

 

[atomix]

Plumix are a steal!  Great way to try an italic nib.

[Ste_S]

For vintage, Osmiroid steel nibs are really nice. I have the Fine Italic (amongst others) and prefer it to the Lamy 1.1 or Kaweco 1.1.

 

The nibs are screw in units that fit into the Osmiroid 75 (piston fill) or 65 (lever fill); or Esterbrook J's.

[Karmachanic]

As you write with a smaller hand, and live in the UK, I  suggest you contact member oxonian - John Sorowka, by PM, and ask him to grind a crisp 0.6 CI.  You'll need to provide the nib.  Expert grinds at reasonable cost.

 

You'll probably end up going the custom grind route eventually.  Why not start there?

[DrManhattan]

Thanks everyone for replying, I've put together a list of all the pens and nibs you've recommended, hopefully I can find reviews of them. I just thought I'd ask a final question regarding the Pilot Plumix/Pluminix nibs; the medium is stated by many people to be about 1mm, however pictures of the back of the packaging say that the medium nib is about 0.6mm; is the packaging incorrect?

[atomix]

I don't have mine with me right now to measure, but remember it being fairly wide. 1mm sounds right.

 

I'm trying to sell a butter line stub once the classifieds get back up and running again.