Switcheroo Resurgence

[VillersCotterets]

Maybe I've came across it lately a lot more just by pure bad luck but I witnessed and experienced myself a recent surge of the dishonest selling tactic consisting on displaying several sought-after fountain pen variants (unique color or material, less common nib size, etc.) on Ebay, Etsy, AliExpress, etc. but when the payment goes through, suddenly ―surprise, surprise― the vendor discovers those items are not available anymore (i.e. "We just discovers a defective batch") and offers to send a replacement lacking what made the initial item appealing, like a ubiquitous model you could have easily ordered from a competitor.
 

Before placing an order, look in the feedbacks left by previous clients for hints the seller might be pulling a switcheroo (i.e. "I've ordered the pretty green one but they offered me to send me the black one instead", "I was expecting a mix of colors but I was unlucky and got only a bunch of black ones", "item didn't match the description", "sent me the wrong size by mistake", etc. ). One instance can be the result of an honest mistake but when "the bad luck" occurs repeatedly ―especially, on hard to find new items― it might be wise to shop elsewhere.

[mizgeorge]

I have never come across this, and whilst I mainly buy vintage pens, I do pick up others from time to time on ebay etc. 

 

What sort of pens is this happening with?

[dan in montreal]

I'm also curious. I have not been buying pens lately, but I'm left wondering which pen models are concerned, just in case.

 

 

[peroride]

3 hours ago, VillersCotterets said:

One instance can be the result of an honest mistake but when "the bad luck" occurs repeatedly

Thanks for the heads up. I've had that happen to me but the seller offered a full refund or the higher priced substitute. But I agree, repeated behavior does not equal repeat business for me. 

[VillersCotterets]

6 hours ago, mizgeorge said:

I have never come across this, and whilst I mainly buy vintage pens, I do pick up others from time to time on ebay etc. 

 

What sort of pens is this happening with?

The brand doesn't seem to matter. The relevant factors seems to be:

• Newly released models
• One nib size or colour produced in a vast quantity and widely distributed while other nib sizes or colours are in very limited supply or totally sold-out after a few hours.

Dropshipping might also be a contributor to this phenomenon.  
 

It happened to me with Chinese pens but it's hard to concluded anything from it as I am currently expanding my collection by continents. China and India are my focus now.

 

[A Smug Dill]

14 hours ago, VillersCotterets said:

Before placing an order, look in the feedbacks left by previous clients for hints the seller might be pulling a switcheroo (i.e. "I've ordered the pretty green one but they offered me to send me the black one instead", "I was expecting a mix of colors but I was unlucky and got only a bunch of black ones", "item didn't match the description", "sent me the wrong size by mistake", etc. )

 

Well, I don't recall coming across being sold (i.e. having an order accepted for) one thing on AliExpress and being contacted and offered a different thing before order dispatch, as far as fountain pens go. I ordered a ‘massage gun’ from one brand's flagship store on AliExpress, and was subsequently advised that model was sold out and offered a supposedly similarly-priced model with a bonus carry case instead; but when I told the seller I'd prefer to cancel the entire order (including other items of different models), it suddenly not only found a unit of the sold-out model for me, but one ready to be dispatched from its Australian warehouse. The order (and subsequent back-and-forth) happened on a Saturday, and my shipment arrived by Tuesday lunch time! That was the fastest I've ever received an AliExpress order by a long shot.

 

As for being sent the wrong colourway or nib size, by mistake or otherwise: one seller sent a replacement Moonman M100 in the colour of my original choice the second time around, and I ended up with a ‘free’ pen (which I gave away, as it was OK the way it was, but I already had that colour and didn't want a duplicate); another seller sent me two replacement nibs of the right type (which I unfortunately cannot use, since I'm unable to disassemble the gripping section on my Jinhao 51A; but it was only a US$1.50 pen anyway, so never mind); and in the single instance where I paid more to buy from the one seller who seemed to have a rare nib size, only to be sent the pen with a commonplace M nib instead, I was in no mood to negotiate a compromise resolution and AliExpress just unilaterally issued me with a full refund at the seller's expense.

[VillersCotterets]

It's happening again. Third time for me in about the same number of months.

I've ordered a limited edition fountain pen on AliExpress. There were 40 available: 20 with a EF nib, 20 with a F nib. After a week, the page show there were 5 sold. But when it came to dispatch the pens, suddenly, the total pen still available dropped to 1, and I've been contacted to accept an exchange, a regular pen, not the limited edition, because the one left is "defective" in an unspecified reason... The advertised pen is still available to be sold but not available to be dispatched once sold. This is so flagrantly dishonest, I am complaining to AliExpress but I don't expect anything.

 

[VillersCotterets]

Another example :

 

[A Smug Dill]

7 minutes ago, VillersCotterets said:

Another example :

 

Haha, that shopper was me!

[VillersCotterets]

Last attempt from the vendor. They ask me to cancel my order in order to hide from AliExpress what they are doing. Also, if I had initiated the cancellation myself, I wouldn't be able to leave a negative comment and/or complain to AliExpress. They finally admitted they don't have all the models in stock but they will in a few weeks. Yes, sure.

[bill88]

I believe Greg Brady said it best:

 

"Caveat Ruptor"

 

(buyer beware)

[VillersCotterets]

On 7/15/2021 at 1:07 AM, bill88 said:

"Caveat Ruptor"

Ruptor" is Latin for "breaker".  I think you meant "emptor".

[Theroc]

This practice is not uncommon on Ali Express, and it's not restricted to fountain pens. It happened to me twice on AE, though not with fountain pens, but rather keycaps.

[A Smug Dill]

On 5/29/2021 at 3:03 PM, A Smug Dill said:

As for being sent the wrong colourway or nib size, by mistake or otherwise

 

I won't name names, but I think it's still worth sharing my experience. I ordered some nibs from an experienced and well-regarded AliExpress (and eBay) seller who somehow seems to have garnered a good reputation, and has been recommended by members of fountain pen hobbyist forums from time to time. This is what arrived on Friday:

 

 

Not the first time I'd had issues with this seller, either; but I think this is the last time.

[mizgeorge]

5 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I won't name names, but I think it's still worth sharing my experience. I ordered some nibs from an experienced and well-regarded AliExpress (and eBay) seller who somehow seems to have garnered a good reputation, and has been recommended by members of fountain pen hobbyist forums from time to time. This is what arrived on Friday:

 

 

Not the first time I'd had issues with this seller, either; but I think this is the last time.

I'm pretty sure I know who this refers to, and my experience has also been a very long way from impressive. I'm afraid I only gave him two strikes before the out. 

[A Smug Dill]

😡

 

Not one, but two, AliExpress sellers have recently sent me Jinhao pens fitted with EF (nominally 0.38mm) ‘aeroplane’, or Lamy Z50-styled, nibs instead of 03 (nominally 0.3mm) nibs I ordered. What's with that? Did they think the customer can't tell one from the other, or just that most folks will think, “Whatever, a Chinese EF nib is fine enough,” when the options were presented side by side at the time of ordering and the customer specifically selected the narrower width grade?

 

It's not a case of, “sorry, but we accepted an order from you for something we don't presently have in stock, is there any substitute we can send you today that you would consider acceptable?” That I would be able to deal with, especially/as long as they will either hold the order open and ‘owe’ me until they restock what I ordered, or somehow allow the order to fail on their merchant record (e.g. cancelled by AliExpress automatically for not shipping because the preset deadline). On occasion, I'll actually accept a substitute, such as in a different but still attractive colourway or style (irrespective of whether it is in higher demand or less sought after).

 

Surely these sellers must understand playing it the way they did can only end up costing them, especially for such low-value pens that are not worth retrieving from the customer at their expense? AliExpress is not going to make me pay for return shipping when I get sent something not-as-described, even if it or the individual seller insists the mismatched goods be returned.

[A Smug Dill]

UPDATE:

So, now I have two more Jinhao (model 1001 desk) pens fitted with EF nibs, which are nominally 0.38mm instead of 0.3mm, for which I got fully refunded without having to return them at the seller's expense. I chose an item listing that offered “free return” for any reason within 15 days, in any case, so even for whatever stupid reason AliExpress did not accept that there was cause to force the seller to refund the incorrectly sent items, I could have still returned the pens on their dime to get my full refund.

 

It didn't go terribly smoothly, however. Before I opened a dispute, I contacted the seller to inform them of their error, and give them a chance to have a say in how to resolve the issue. What they offered were multiple inconsistent excuses that tried to blame the manufacturer and frame it as the result of a unilateral change over which they had no foresight and no control.

1. “Only the nib marking has changed to EF on the new production batch, but the actual width is still correct.”
   
   Um, no, I actually have a nib of the same style that is marked 03 (and correctly fitted to a Jinhao 80 pen, per my order placed with another seller, that just happened to arrive on the same morning as the two model 1001 pens), and even without the aid of a loupe or callipers, I can see that the tipping on the 03 nib is finer. Are you going to make me send you a macro photo of them side by side, AliExpress seller, to prove the point and invalidate your assertion?
    
2. “I just checked, and all the pens in our current stock have EF nibs. The next batch of Jinhao 1001 pens will have 03 nibs (again, thus reversing the change in Jinhao's nib marking policy you just alleged?) fitted on them. We'll send you replacements with your next order.”
   
   That is not an acceptable resolution; and I have already placed a second order recently for something else, and you have allegedly already dispatched it, before this issue caused by your error surfaced today. I'm not going to commit to buying even more from you, while this issue remains unresolved, just to spare you one lot of shipping charges. Even if I was prepared to do you this “favour”, I still can't trust that you won't screw up again when the time comes — since you aren't ready today — then claim you tried to make amends and it has cost you enough already, and try to wash your hands of all responsibility. By that time, it'll be outside of my window of opportunity to get AliExpress to intervene, or request for a “free return” to get refunded for the pens that are not fit for my purposes, so I'll effectively have no more recourse.
    
3. “The manufacturer changed the design specs for this model, and they are now only fitted with EF nibs.”
   
   So why will the next batch of pens you receive have 03 nibs, which you offered to send with my next order?

The seller then told me to open a dispute and get a refund, if I “don't like the pens” I'd already received. I specifically asked them whether they wanted the pens returned at their expense, since I'm more than happy to part with them as long as it costs not me but only the seller even more for their mistake (and attempts to try to weasel out of resulting loss). They said no, they don't want the pens returned.

 

OK, so the next steps should be pretty straightforward, right?

 

As the two pens are of different colours, they presented as separate items in the order, and I had to open refund-only disputes for them individually. The same textual description and supporting photographic evidence for both disputes ought to suffice, one would expect. The seller already knew the disputes were coming, so I don't really expect any pushback from them; at worst, they could change their mind and told me I had to return the pens in order to get my full refund. I prepared there detailed and annotated screenshot collages, as well as an annotated photo of the pens I received clearly showing their nib markings of EF.

 

The annotations on the images, when read in conjunction, would have clearly explained the issue; nevertheless, I also wrote a ≤512-character description of the issue to join the dots for whoever was handling the disputes.

 

One dispute was resolved, with a full refund being issued, within 18 hours of lodgement.

 

The other dispute — identical in every way except the actual colour of the pen — was judged, four hours later, by AliExpress thus:

 

 

Huh?

 

AliExpress then, as part and parcel of that, proposed an “alternative solution”: no refund. Not at the seller's behest, but just off the particular dispute handler's own bat; and they set a countdown timer of three days for me to respond, or its proposal will be considered the final solution.

 

I replied within the hour, not by providing any other “high-quality photographic evidence”, but simply re-cutting bits and pieces from all four originally submitted images to form a single one, and wrote something on it in (traditional) Chinese, that wasn't very different in meaning to what I previously annotated in English. (No way was I going to “translate” what I wrote into simplified Chinese characters for them on account of their being mainlanders.) I also asked them in the typed text component of my response — not in so many words — what the hell was wrong with them, when the other effectively identical dispute was quickly judged to be valid.

 

Instead of promptly responding to my further submission that they requested, they let the countdown timer run for the whole three days, even though for the remaining 71 hours there was no further action I could have taken in the system. They then took another several hours before judging the dispute in my favour and issued a full refund for the second pen.

 

So, next time, how about not alleging or alluding to not having been provided with sufficiently clear photographic evidence, but simply write in the response, “I can't judge your dispute either way right now, because I'm too dense to understood what you wrote in English, and I don't want to ask my colleagues to help explain?” before declaring a claim to be invalid when a customer raises a dispute?

 

Just as well that I can express myself in Chinese (if I must), and have way too much time on my hands and plenty of passive-aggressive rage, to bother chasing up US$3 instead of letting things slide.