Too much ink flow

[MarcoA63]

9 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Like every 20+ years or so?

Less much less, 5 years I have discovered these sacs last

[MarcoA63]

9 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Like every 20+ years or so?

Less much less, 5 years I have discovered these sacs last

[Bo Bo Olson]

Shellac is what one uses....traditional, and what I used on my Esterbrook and Wearevers.

..........not nail polish as advised by Frank Duble in his book. The book is from long ago, and he was the 'ancestor' of the pen repairmen. Pre-net so shellac may have been hard to get for home repair....

A generation later all were using shellac.

However

Marshal and Oldfield use shellac among other adhesives in their great 'Pen Repair' book.

Say nail varnish is good for transparent plastic sacs and be left a few hours before fitting into the pen.

Contact adhesive (rubber solution) wood glue, are also good.

But I just used shellac as was common a decade ago.

 

If the sac is used on a pump/twist pen, rubber adhesive plus a crimped band or fine thread/wire....only for if twisting or pulling stress.

 

So freaking out about the use of shellac is not necessary.

[Bo Bo Olson]

2 hours ago, MarcoA63 said:

Less much less, 5 years I have discovered these sacs last

Once rubber sacs lasted 30-40 years, I had one pen with a 60 year old sac.

A decade ago, there were many posts of folks bragging their old sacs.....or whining after only 40 year's the sac had to be replaced.

Then the last old sac died, and no more bragging.

 

Those were the old White Company sacs. Don't know how the 'new' ones are from a decade ago, when the company rose again from the dead are. If the company is still around.

 

There was much complaint about Chinese rubber sacs.

 

I don't know, I'm down to 5-6 sac pens, sacked a decade ago....almost unused out side my '52's sacked by Marcilio(sp) from whom I got them 5-6 years ago...which is what happens when one has too many pens.

I don't use saturated much less supersaturated inks in them......as I learned not to here on the com.

 

Supersaturated inks can kill a sac in a week or two....reputable repairmen said that (and void their warrenttee if that brand of ink is used) , and named an American ink company famous for overfilling it's bottles.

Could last months....could not.

 

Other worshipers of that ink say no....they have used it for months, or even a year... They didn't say what of his Inks they used. In a few  of his inks are not supersaturated.

 

I'm odd, I'll take the word of a man whose profession is fixing ruined pens over a novice.  

 

But stay away from supersaturated inks in a sac pen.

[MarcoA63]

at the end of the day I have to remove the freshly shellached (is this how you spell it?) sac, knock out the feed and nib and investigate, correct ?

[lionelc]

yup - end of the day, try heat setting 1st to see if changes the ink flow - usually use this to increase flow not decrease it so repositioning the nib on the feed and how much far they are stuck into the section may be unavoidable.  in general the tip of the feed should be far back enough under the nib so that the shoulders dont jut out, the tricky bit is how far to advance the nib/feed unit into the section - this will be a matter of experimentation.  and for testing, choose a standard dry ink - i like the pelikan 4001 blue black cheap and reliable

[Bo Bo Olson]

7 hours ago, MarcoA63 said:

shellached

shellacked 

[MarcoA63]

@Bo Bo Olson thank you for the spelling correction :-)

I was thinking that the wetness issue isn't a problem involving the sac+ feed + nib because if I dip the nib it is wet just the same, so the issue has to be located around the way the nib and pointy part of the feed sit together.

I have knockeout multiple times the assembly and repositioned the nib in different places, the problem persist.

I also noticed that when I write the nib lifts and an air gap is created between the nib and the pointy bit of the feed.

So could it be, at this point, that this is the way the pen is meant to be writing ? Maybe this is a broad nib and this I have to get used to besides using blotting paper when I write with it ? :-)

[lionelc]

either that or heat set and use pelikan 4001 blue black

[Bo Bo Olson]

No, the nib should not raise above the feed. The shoulders of the nib should sit a bit before the tip of the feed.

Look in the repair section for raising nib...or feed nib gapping.

 

The heat sitting is a good option; and or sitting the nib a bit deeper, or both.

You should look up heat sitting, in I've only tried that once. I think...in it was a very long time ago.

I've had a lot of luck with my used pens.

[MarcoA63]

@lionelc I'm using Pelikan 4001 Violet 🙂 hope it is similar

@Bo Bo Olson I'll look at 'heat sitting' as well

Thank you both

[OMASsimo]

You mentioned that you can slip a paper between nib and feed easily. I think that’s the problem or at least one of them. The nib has to sit snug on the feed to function properly. And you can fix that even without knocking out the nib. 
Old ebonite feeds sometimes warp but they can be brought back into the proper shape by applying heat. You can either use a heat gun or hot water to warm up the feed and then push it up towards the nib and let it cool down. If you can’t push the paper slip between nib and feed anymore, the feed should be adjusted properly. If the ink flow is still too much, you might have to adjust the nib in a second step.

[MarcoA63]

Good morning, I tried heat sitting the feed a few times, the feed did not change its 'orientation' in any way and the nib keeps lifting. I sent the pen off to a guy in York who I met a few weeks ago. He explained how I had to do it and I followed his instructions, no results. Maybe hot kettle water isn't enough? Dipping time needs to be longer? Hope he is more successful. Still can't figure out the material of the feed though. It is in the same colourd of the rippled body so I guess it is ebonite?

[MarcoA63]

SOLVED - The pen is back in my hands. The person that fixed it says that being the nib a 'broad stub' it has to be so wet and that you can do very little to reduce ink flow. He explained what he did to limit a bit though. He has boiled the nib for 10 minutes as this causes the metal nib to relax and closes up the nib slit if it has opened up in use. This helps to reduce the ink flow of the pen and he set it up in the best optimum position for a controlled ink flow.

I've started using it and I have to say that it sin't as wet as before, surely it puts a lot of ink on the page but less.

Unfortunately on old pens, most often than not, nibs did not have their grades marked so the only way to tell is by experience and comparing them with a known medium grade nib. Wasn't even charged a fortune for the repair, 10 GBP

Ciao

Marco

[Bo Bo Olson]

What papers are you using?

 

Oxford Optic 90g is a very good economical paper, also used in the Red&Black notebook.

Unfortunately I don't know much about English papers. Conqueror is a name that rings a bell.

 

Perhaps a slick paper like Rhoda 80/90g would have the ink sit up a second or two longer so would not be so wet.

Though a stubbed B will be somewhat wet.

 

Pelikan 4001 Blue Black is even drier than 4001 Violet. Perhaps the driest of all common inks.

You are at the well, order some British  ESSR, rated by us on the com as better than Diamine's Registry ink. Not expensive and you get 110ml in a plastic bottle.

I didn't have a problem with too wet writing pens, but look it up, in search.....perhaps the longest thread ever made is about ESSR Blue Black ink. The passed Sandy1 called it mischievous. I called it sneaky.....it is such a paper driven ink......I once did a 17 pen of the various widths on 40+ papers.

 

At least the guy set your nib and feed at the proper depth, so that problem is solved.

 

[MarcoA63]

@Bo Bo Olson I use Rohdia A5 blocs which with this pen is holding better than the printer paper I was using last year. He did a proper job so much so I do not have to send it back again like it happened with my previous UK repairer.