Waterman 9ct England FDW + Life Long Pencil

[theodore94]

I just picked up and wanted to share this Waterman 9ct FDW! 

 

It seems to be in pretty good shape... the nib looks to be intact (and its the FDW nib). The feed may be a bit off centered, and I believe it needs to be resacked... does that have to go to a special repairperson, or should most repair people be able to do it? Also, I don't believe this is the case, but... do they make "fakes" of these, and if so, how could I tell if mine is not real?

 

The seller had me buy this Life Long pencil along with it... it's also 9ct and made in England, but I don't believe there is any other relation between the two. Is that right? I'm not a pencil collector so I'll have to figure out what to do with it. I'm not even sure how it would work!

 

I got the pair for around $450, so I figured -- given just the price of gold and that the seller says they're 37g together -- it would be worth it even if the pen needed to be fixed up a bit.

 

 

[shalitha33]

Sorry about asking a noob question .  I was assuming FDW is the waterman sponsor's mark and hallmarks are required to put on anything gold imported to places like UK. after fdw , next one with the 9 to the side and 375 indicating the fineness (9ct) and the next 2 indicating the assayer's office and something else? date ?

 

Does FDW in the nib also indicate something else ? like a type of a nib ?

Sorry i have no idia about the hallmark system in places like in the UK. just asking here to find a bit more about the subject.

https://belovedtreasures.com.au/product/18ct-gold-filigree-maltese-cross-pendant-brooch/attachment/crown-18-c-england-hallmark-530/
https://www.cooksongold.com/blog/inspiration/a-brief-history-of-hallmarking/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-LOEBhDCARIsABrC0TkpwKnI8QefMkXkDUZqiKPXhtNMBOvkHdsezTkO5e9eRv60tkirXlYaAhIyEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[theodore94]

I believe FDW stands for Frank D. Waterman

The 9 and 375 mean 9ct gold.... the other two symbols were mysteries to me. Your link seems to imply they mean that it's a London import? It's very hard to distinguish, even in person!

[theodore94]

I did a bit more looking around for FDW Watermans. I thought there was only one kind, but it looks like there are a few different designs.... however, few have names/numbers. Does anyone know if my pen has a model name/number?

 

Here are some examples:

 

http://vintagefountainpensinc.com/show.php?item=5776

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Art-Deco-Watermans-Ideal-9k-9ct-Gold-Fountain-Pen-Dated-1929-UK-Hallmark-/401893876885?_ul=IL

https://picclick.com/Vintage-WATERMAN-52-1-2-Fountain-Pen-9K-SOLID-123317534696.html (This appears to be an overlay on top of the well-known Waterman 52 but it's a similar design)

 

 

Thanks!

[theodore94]

I just wanted to bump this in case anyone can help me figure out the model number of this pen... I'm trying to figure out how to get it restored. If anyone has any clue, let me know! Thanks!

[mizgeorge]

I can't tell you much about the pen, but I can tell you what the hallmarks mean.

 

It was stamped at the London Assay Office in 1925, the makers mark is Frank D Waterman (who I believe was the nephew), and is, as you though. 9ct gold (which is the 'low' gold standard in the UK to this day).

 

Whether it was made overseas (it seems to have a Canadian nib) and stamped on import to the UK, or made in the UK and the nib changed later on is impossible to know, but it could not have been sold in the UK without a hallmark, so I think it's safe to assume it was for that market - especially given the broad oblique nib, which seem to have been much more popular in the UK than north America.

 

 

[theodore94]

@mizgeorge Thanks so much! May I ask: how do you know it was stamped in 1925? Am I missing that somewhere?

 

Interesting that it may have been imported to the UK. I had thought almost all 9k things were British made. 

[pen lady]

Google an explanation of English Hallmarks and you'll see how it's possible to pinpoint the year of gold and silver items assayed in the UK.

[theodore94]

I was actually just taking a look, and I think it's because that little hallmark I couldn't see perfectly seems to be a "K", which would be the 1925 UK hallmark. Is that right? 

 

This explained a good deal, although it isn't the exact same pen. The pen here doesn't have an overlay on the blind cap and may be bigger than mine.... I still don't know what number mine is. https://antiquedigger.com/products/1925-waterman-52-9-carat-solid-gold-overlay-xf-bbb-2-24-flex-nib-restored?variant=32131430383691.

 

I wonder if that price range is approximately right.... I spent ~$500 on the pen and the pencil, as well as a plastic Conway Stewart 106 (which might be worth $30 or so). In hindsight, I'm not sure it was a good deal (though it is a very pretty pen).

[mizgeorge]

The hallmarks in question are a leopard's head (for the London Assay Office) and the particular version of the k is for 1925 - which would fit with the look of the pen. the style of the date letter varies each time it's used, making it easy to pinpoint a year of assay. 

 

As for the fineness mark, UK hallmarking doesn't allow for a great deal of flexibility, so a 9ct mark would be struck on anything with a minimum of 375 right through until it reaches 14ct (585). There was a time when 10 and 12ct were used, but these are very rare, and most articles of this type would simply have been stamped 9ct 375. 

 

As for value, particularly if it is a UK pen, it's worth looking at some old auction prices, but I'd say you probably paid about what it's worth. The monogram detracts a little bit from the value, but it looks to be in good nick otherwise. At a guess it's probably a 52 (sorry, can't see the nib properly). The pencil doesn't have any hallmarks I could see, so can only be described as gold coloured without having it assayed. If the CS106 is in good condition, it's probably worth at least twice what you think - especially if it's in one of the less common colours.

[theodore94]

@mizgeorge Thanks so much! It's interesting that it could be anything from 9ct to 12ct. I didn't know that's how hallmarks worked! I'll assume its 9ct, but good to know anyways!

 

The Conway 106 is in very good shape. It's in red... I saw a few similar pens selling for ~$30 (but, of course, it would be great if it's worth more!). I have to get the filling mechanism resacked to try it out to see how well it writes.... but its pretty!

 

 

The Life Long pencil is marked twice 9ct -- on the "crown top" and on the "barrel" (not with an import hallmark but nonetheless). BTW: I read somewhere that Life Long pencils were sold with Conway Stewart stationary, so maybe that's a hint for why they were grouped together in this person's collection.

 

 

 

I know virtually nothing about pencils, and I actually asked about this on the Pencils Forum. I've been looking for this model of pencil, and I can't find much information. But it looks like it may be this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353438349546

 

Are there additional angles of the nib I can provide to identify the model? I can take more when it's light out tomorrow morning. Here's a close up from the album: