Inks that won't stain urushi sections

[MartinPauli]

As mentioned above Urushi is resistant to all known acids and alkalis, as well as water and temperatures up to 300 degrees celsius.

 

But the substrate the urushi is applied on can be a problem. Applied properly on Ebonite there is no propblem. If urushi is applied on Brass as many pens are, you have to care for the brass. Ultrasonic and warm water is ok. For serious cases you can drop the section with nib int a glass jar filled with Acetone and put it into the Ultrasonic bath

[Nurmister]

1 hour ago, MartinPauli said:

As mentioned above Urushi is resistant to all known acids and alkalis, as well as water and temperatures up to 300 degrees celsius.

 

But the substrate the urushi is applied on can be a problem. Applied properly on Ebonite there is no propblem. If urushi is applied on Brass as many pens are, you have to care for the brass. Ultrasonic and warm water is ok. For serious cases you can drop the section with nib int a glass jar filled with Acetone and put it into the Ultrasonic bath

 

This is very interesting: I never considered the substrate as hindering or allowing certain cleaning to be applied.

 

There was another thread in which a materials science student recommended Titanium as a substrate for urushi, given its corrosion resistance: would it be a better substrate?  Or are there other considerations? I always wondered why Namiki chose brass for the Yukari Royale.

[MartinPauli]

I assume for brass and other metals used for urushi pens there are no problems wwith watche, Spiritus or Acetone and Ultrasonic. Most urushi works are executed on a wooden base.

When the urushi has not completely sealed the wooden core, the wood can react to water and temperature and eventually crack the lacquer when expanding or shrinking. For screen printed Maki-e I would not take any responsibility and recommend not more than warm water. screen printed urushi is mostly mixed or soluted with chemicals or oils and therefore not as resistant as pure urushi

[Stewiesdad]

9 hours ago, MartinPauli said:

As mentioned above Urushi is resistant to all known acids and alkalis, as well as water and temperatures up to 300 degrees celsius.

 

But the substrate the urushi is applied on can be a problem. Applied properly on Ebonite there is no propblem. If urushi is applied on Brass as many pens are, you have to care for the brass. Ultrasonic and warm water is ok. For serious cases you can drop the section with nib int a glass jar filled with Acetone and put it into the Ultrasonic bath

Thank you, that puts my mind at ease. I might still be hesitant about using my ultrasonic cleaner, for the ebonite component underneath the urushi, but soaking the nib unit for a few hours makes a huge difference in cleaning. So basically, try and not use an urushi pen in sunlight seems the be the main concern? But would, say, an afternoon spent writing at an outdoor café on a sunny day potentially damage the urushi? 

[jandrese]

2 hours ago, Stewiesdad said:

Thank you, that puts my mind at ease. I might still be hesitant about using my ultrasonic cleaner, for the ebonite component underneath the urushi, but soaking the nib unit for a few hours makes a huge difference in cleaning. So basically, try and not use an urushi pen in sunlight seems the be the main concern? But would, say, an afternoon spent writing at an outdoor café on a sunny day potentially damage the urushi? 

I used to ultrasonically clean my nibs/feeds/sections. There is not much benefit over flushing unless, and still kind of not really, pigment inks, iron gall inks, or something else has clogged the ink channels in the feed. 

 

Regarding using urushi pens outside, sunny or not (UV penetrates clouds), I do hesitate, but have done it. UV is kryptonite to urushi. Of course, it will not disintegrate immediately, it's not made out of vampire stuff, but I suppose over time it could damage or at least discolor the surface. That said, many things that are used outside in Japan are painted with urushi, even entire temples. "Damage" due to honest use is valued in Japan and urushi can be repaired more or less. Your pens, your choice.

[Stewiesdad]

17 minutes ago, jandrese said:

I used to ultrasonically clean my nibs/feeds/sections. There is not much benefit over flushing unless, and still kind of not really, pigment inks, iron gall inks, or something else has clogged the ink channels in the feed. 

 

Regarding using urushi pens outside, sunny or not (UV penetrates clouds), I do hesitate, but have done it. UV is kryptonite to urushi. Of course, it will not disintegrate immediately, it's not made out of vampire stuff, but I suppose over time it could damage or at least discolor the surface. That said, many things that are used outside in Japan are painted with urushi, even entire temples. "Damage" due to honest use is valued in Japan and urushi can be repaired more or less. Your pens, your choice.

Thank you, well put. I like to use my pens and not baby them. Well, I do in that I am careful with them, but they are still tools to be used. Likely after reading the various answers,  I will treat the urushi ones the same as the resin ones. 

[MartinPauli]

[Tinjapan]

Urushi dishes, including sake cups and soup bowls are readily available and we have many in our household.  Water is NOT poison for urushi.  I would not put my urushi pens in my ultrasonic cleaner though. It may be safe but I”ll someone else try it with their pens.  

[MartinPauli]

Think about, in Japan and other countries in Asia almost everthing was lacquered either protected or decorated with urushi. Soup bowls, Palanquins, fishing rods, Samurai armors, sword sheeth (Saya), hundreds of years old construction and decorations in temples and shrines and dry lacquer sculptures, water pipes and water cisterns inside, Suzuribako, Inrô, instruments, tea utensils. There are things made by masters to be preserved but the mayority of "urushimono" to be used in daily life with care. In Japan there is a term "Yô no Bi" meaning "Beauty through use". A old object, well treated can become  even more beautiful. Important term in Japan in valuing things is also "Jidai" age of things. Negor lacquer represents Yô no Bi the best

[mbs58]

I am new to this site, but have been using and collecting pens for a very long time. I also realize that this is an old thread. However, I feel compelled to respond, since I did a quick search on inks that will stain your Urushi pen. Why? Because this afternoon I realized that my newly aquired Urushi pen is stained at the section. Four days ago I filled it with Iroshizuku Syo-ro. I used it a couple of times and then it sat for two days, until I unscrewed the cap and saw that there was ink on the section. Minor leak. Rinsed it with luke warm water and discovered very quickly that the pen is clearly stained. There is a first time for everything I guess. I own eleven other Urushi laqured pens and I have never seen this before. Like most I use different inks, but mostly Iroshizuku, Pelikan, Robert Oster, Diamine and J. Herbin. I am stunned right now. -Mike

[wtlh]

Urushi is practically immune to most chemicals and almost all known solvents. It also has the hardness of glass, so would be more scratch resistant than resin or steel.  I would say it is probably better than Western enamel in terms scratch resistance.  It is a pretty durable stuff the ancients use to harden their laminar body armour with.  It's crytonite is UV light.  Just make sure you don't expose the pen to sun light for any extended period.

[MartinPauli]

As mentioned sebveral times in thios post "Pure" Urushi, not deluted with chemicals or oils is even resistant againt the most aggressive acids like Aqua regia which delutes Gold. Try to clean the section with Acetone

[Distaff]

Glad the thread was resurrected.   I had never heard of urushi until coming across it in fountain pens, and I dismissed it a merely pretty.   InkyRocks on YouTube had a video where she visited a urushi artist.  The video specifically warns that urushi deteriorates in dry air.   Since I live in the desert (New Mexico),  I figured that money spent on a pen with this finish would result in disappointment.   Mistaken?  I don't take my pens outside.   

 

Beautiful vase pictured above!  Now, with more background, and an explanation of urushi's properties, I have much more appreciation for it.

[wtlh]

On 8/20/2022 at 1:54 PM, Distaff said:

Glad the thread was resurrected.   I had never heard of urushi until coming across it in fountain pens, and I dismissed it a merely pretty.   InkyRocks on YouTube had a video where she visited a urushi artist.  The video specifically warns that urushi deteriorates in dry air.   Since I live in the desert (New Mexico),  I figured that money spent on a pen with this finish would result in disappointment.   Mistaken?  I don't take my pens outside.   

 

Beautiful vase pictured above!  Now, with more background, and an explanation of urushi's properties, I have much more appreciation for it.

Urushi is a finish, a paint.  The finish itself does not deteriorate in dry air, the substrate (i.e the base material urushi is painted) on may, if it is made of a permeable material.  Metal urushi pens for example will be immune to moisture changes.

 

Urushi however WILL deteriorate in light.  If you put your pen on your desk without cover and your room is bright with natural light, or that sun light can get directly to it, then leave the pen exposed in such conditions will cause irreversible damage to Urushi.   Urushi will form micro cracks due to light damage, and once this is accumulated to a certain degree, it will show up visually as the finish losing its original luster.   Once that happens, the finish is toast, you cannot revive it. The only way to repair is to remove the damaged layers and repaint.  Because Urushi is semi translucent, applying additional layers on top of the damaged layers won't help.

 

Having said all of this.  Urushi is probably one of the most beautiful looking lacquer out there.  Try to handle one yourself and you will know the difference.  The soft/warm feel on touch, the luster and the watery translucent finish is simply unique.  In my opinion nothing comes close, the Western enamel finished just don't feel the same way.

 

Other than being vulnerable to light, Urushi finish is very tough otherwise.  It is quite hard, harder than most metals, so won't scratch easily.  It is also extremely chemical resistant, immune to all known solvents.

 

Just make sure your pen always lives in a pouch, and you won't regret your purchasing a high quality Urushi pen, trust me.

 

 

 

 

[MartinPauli]

This is all true but please, do not overdo it with the light problem. Urushi is extremely strong and it takes a long time for sunlight to destroy a well done urushi surface.  Samurai armors and swort sheets are made with urushi worn in war. Here some pictures of a soup bowl from the Meiji era. It belonged to an individual and has been used daily for over 50 years. It has neveer been kept in a pouch