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Should a well tuned nib work with many different inks? Also dry ones


rb120134

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Just a general observation:

 

Most of my vintage pens, regardless of make, don't like being unused for a couple of days. Parker 51s are probably the best as that goes, but those with visible vents on the cap don't seem to seal particularly well.

 

Among my modern pens(and I'm stretching back to say 70s and 80s for some of these) I find most better pens regardless of make do tend to seal well. Cheap Platinum Preppies are great, and you can see the seal at work. My Lamy 2000s do well also. Montblancs are outstanding, and I've(inadvertently) left them for months without issue(never tried longer). Pelikans, IMO, have probably the worst modern cap. Not only do they unscrew in my pocket but they also just don't seem to seal that well.

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13 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

Pelikans, IMO, have probably the worst modern cap. Not only do they unscrew in my pocket but they also just don't seem to seal that well.

 

In my experience, the caps on all of our (eight) modern Pelikan M20x, M400 and M600 pens seal very well against ink evaporation, provided that they're not allowed to unscrew themselves and leave the nib and feed effectively unsealed. I can't speak for the cap on my M815, since I don't like that pen and therefore don't keep it inked often enough or for long enough to really know.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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3 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

In my experience, the caps on all of our (eight) modern Pelikan M20x, M400 and M600 pens seal very well against ink evaporation, provided that they're not allowed to unscrew themselves and leave the nib and feed effectively unsealed. I can't speak for the cap on my M815, since I don't like that pen and therefore don't keep it inked often enough or for long enough to really know.

+1  Provided the cap stays tightened, my Pelikan 20x/40x seals are excellent. But they do have a peculiar and unpredictable tendency to loosen. My 405 Stresemann seems to not have this tendency though. 

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My newest Pelikan is an M800 bought last year.  Even with the cap on tight, it seems to go dry in a few weeks.

 

I've seen similar with my M205 and two M400s...

 

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but they get treated like all of my other modern pens.

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But here I am talking about the Graf von Faber-Castell classic model, is there anyone with a similar problem with this fp? hard starts after storing the pen nib up for a long time?

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Change the paper. 

 

The chances are your GFC and the Rhodia paper are not playing well together. 

 

FPs rely upon three things playing nicely - the nib, the ink and the paper.

 

The chances are the problem is not with the pen - but with the paper. The coating on rhodia/clairefontaine prevents ink from being absorbed from the nib and into the paper - which is probably why you are getting hard starts, and skipping.

 

I've got rhodia and other coated papers - and not all of my pens like the stuff. My Visconti's hate it. I've just tried them again - and they start skipping after a couple of sentences - they perform prefectly well on non-coated papers. My ST Dupont will write on the stuff, but seizes up after a while, and needs  a dip in some water because the fibres get caught in the nib. 

 

Sometimes it is the coating - and sometimes pens will skip because fibres/bits of the coating/paper get caught in the nib which also causes a hard starts. 

 

Before you start fixing the pen - try a different paper to eliminate that variable.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

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Still hard starts with the GvFC classic nib after one night capped with nib up. Does this look like baby bottom?

Screenshot_20210506-122452_Gallery.jpg

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If you are storing the pen nib up, then the ink will naturally descend from the feed and nib, causing a hard start. Try just leaving the pen level, or nib down and see if that makes a difference.

 

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1 hour ago, sandy101 said:

If you are storing the pen nib up, then the ink will naturally descend from the feed and nib, causing a hard start. Try just leaving the pen level, or nib down and see if that makes a difference.

 

I thought the pen should be stored nib up?

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When you are using an old, vintage sac filler - such as the Parker Victory, or Parker 51, then it is a good idea to store them nib up as it is quite common for ink to creep out of the pen. Nib up is also useful for air travel.

 

But in your situation, it is entirely possible that storing it nib up is causing the problem. Try it the other way and see if it makes a difference.  

 

Also try a wetter ink if you have it - Waterman is generally a good one to use. See if that makes a difference.

 

Did you flush the pen when you bought it? There might be manufacturing gunk inside it - sucking some water into the pen and pushing it out again a few times can make a difference. Washing up liquid can also be used if water doesn't work - just rinse it out when you are done. 

 

Eliminate the storage, gunk, ink and paper variables before you start touching the nib. If the pen is new - don't touch the nib - send it back and let GFVC fix it.  

 

 

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35 minutes ago, sandy101 said:

When you are using an old, vintage sac filler - such as the Parker Victory, or Parker 51, then it is a good idea to store them nib up as it is quite common for ink to creep out of the pen. Nib up is also useful for air travel.

 

But in your situation, it is entirely possible that storing it nib up is causing the problem. Try it the other way and see if it makes a difference.  

 

Also try a wetter ink if you have it - Waterman is generally a good one to use. See if that makes a difference.

 

Did you flush the pen when you bought it? There might be manufacturing gunk inside it - sucking some water into the pen and pushing it out again a few times can make a difference. Washing up liquid can also be used if water doesn't work - just rinse it out when you are done. 

 

Eliminate the storage, gunk, ink and paper variables before you start touching the nib. If the pen is new - don't touch the nib - send it back and let GFVC fix it.  

 

 

It is filled with GvFC Cobalt Blue, I did flush the pen with cold water for like 5 minutes long, sucking water up and pushing it out with the converter. I did store the pen with the nib up if I didnt use it, so I will now store it flat, to see if it makes a difference. 

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I looked at your nib picture but it is almost impossible to tell from a distance. I cannot rule out that there is the tiniest bit of baby bottom. It means that the tipping recesses a little bit towards the slit. Modern nibs usually have very slightly rounded edges at the slit to make them smooth but if this is overdone you get baby bottom and skipping as a result.

 

You are right that storing filled pens nib up is good practice. A pen with a good nib and feed and thus no flow issues will write without hard starts when you put it to the paper. The capillary effect will keep the ink in the slit for a very long time unless the cap doesn't seal well enough. As soon as the tip touches the paper, the ink can flow from the slit and the ink channel of the feed as a little time to be refilled from the reservoir.

 

I filled my GvFC with the driest ink I have, Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black, and tested it on Rhodia paper. Absolutely no issues, no hard starts even after a week of no use, no skipping, no ink starvation. That's how yours should write as well. As @sandy101 pointed out, if you bought your pen new and it is still under warranty, send it in to FC and they will fix it. I've heard very good things about their customer service. Even if it's not under warranty anymore, it might be worth contacting them asking for help. They might fix it for a song (shipping costs) to make you happy again if you are lucky. Otherwise, the repair costs still will be a lot less then buying another pen of equivalent quality.

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Oh, I forgot to mention: @sandy101 made another very good remark! To get rid of manufacturing gunk, you need to use a bit of detergent. Dish washing detergent is fine to dissolve the oils and grease but cold water doesn't do the trick somtimes if that's the problem. Give it a try, it can't hurt.

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1 hour ago, OMASsimo said:

I filled my GvFC with the driest ink I have, Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black, and tested it on Rhodia paper. Absolutely no issues, no hard starts even after a week of no use, no skipping, no ink starvation.

Which model is that? 

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I'm glad that in all this discussion, the possibility of baby's bottom finally came up.  That was what caused the skipping in my first M200 Café Crème, with a B nib.  No matter WHAT ink I put in the pen, it skipped.  A trip to a nibmeister at a pen show solved the issue quite nicely (of course then I lost the pen the following spring... :crybaby:)

Unfortunately, in the case of the OP's pen, the photo of the tipping was so blurry I couldn't tell whether there is baby's bottom or not.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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6 hours ago, OMASsimo said:

A black Guilloche.

Thanks.  I haven't yet tried a GvFC pen... it's on my outstanding list and I've been looking at that model.

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5 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Unfortunately, in the case of the OP's pen, the photo of the tipping was so blurry I couldn't tell whether there is baby's bottom or not.

 

My first impression from the blurry image is that the tipping is cut asymmetrically, with the hemisphere on the left tine taller (and resting marginally lower) than that on the right tine; and the nib slit is not aligned with the centreline of the feed where the ink channel is expected to be.

 

large.1583429730_Myconjectureon@rb120134sGvFCnibissueswithskipping.jpg.6bf900193035a917f4ba7ad16541fcbb.jpg

 

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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On 5/7/2021 at 8:57 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

My first impression from the blurry image is that the tipping is cut asymmetrically, with the hemisphere on the left tine taller (and resting marginally lower) than that on the right tine; and the nib slit is not aligned with the centreline of the feed where the ink channel is expected to be.

 

large.1583429730_Myconjectureon@rb120134sGvFCnibissueswithskipping.jpg.6bf900193035a917f4ba7ad16541fcbb.jpg

 

Thanks for the info. I think the tipping is welded, so I cant change the asymmetrical cut, is this a big problem? Do alot of tippings have this asymmetrical cut? And for the nib slit not aligned with the center of the feed, can I rotate the nib a bit to align the nib slit with the center of the feed? I saw some youtube videos of some GvFC classics and noticed when they zoom in that the nib is not always perfectly super straight aligned with the feed, yet those pens write without problems, ofcourse I dont know if they have hard starts after some period of not writing, like I do. 

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2 minutes ago, rb120134 said:

I think the tipping is welded, so I cant change the asymmetrical cut, is this a big problem?

 

If I were the pen owner, I'd judge the magnitude of the problem on the basis of whether the pen will write properly and reliably; just as someone born with a deformity may not necessarily be handicapped by it, but could well be, and how big a problem and how much corrective action is required should be assessed on that basis, I think.

 

3 minutes ago, rb120134 said:

Do alot of tippings have this asymmetrical cut?

 

I've personally seen some, including one that is kinda like that on my Leonardo Momento Zero, which caused a slightly different problem. Anyway, I fixed mine by regrinding the tipping — which of course voids warranty on the pen. Knowing what I know now, having the experience I do now, if I were to do it all over again, I'd simply have returned the pen to the retailer as defective, and get it exchanged or refunded.

 

6 minutes ago, rb120134 said:

And for the nib slit not aligned with the center of the feed, can I rotate the nib a bit to align the nib slit with the center of the feed?

 

I'd answer that with a qualified yes. That misalignment is less of a problem than asymmetrically cut tipping that cause the thickness of the hemispheres to be imbalanced.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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