Sailor Steel vs 14k nibs

[Ste_S]

I recently bought a Sailor Shikiori (Procolor) with steel F nib, and have been very impressed with the writing experience. The pencil like feedback is addicting, and it’s single-handedly turned me on to Japanese fine nibs.

 

Which got me wondering about Sailor‘s 14K nibs in the 1911S and Pro Gear Slim ranges. I’ve read that their 14K nibs are quite firm, so with that in mind, how much difference is there between their steel and 14K nibs?

[FOUR X FOUR]

Always gold. Gold always. Did I mention always gold?

allan😀😀

[Ste_S]

1 hour ago, FOUR X FOUR said:

Always gold. Gold always. Did I mention always gold?

allan😀😀

 

Any reason for that?

[Sk8rcruz]

I have a Sailor Lecoule, steel M\F nib and a Sailor Slim gold Zoom nib. I know they are very different grinds but the way the nib feels as it goes across the paper is the marked difference. The gold nib is very little feedback no matter what paper I’m using. I also have a Taccia gold M\F nib that is a lot smoother than the Lecoule nib. I like smooth. It’s all in an individual’s preference. BTW can anyone help me identify this Sailor slim model? It has a feather stamped on theZoom nib. Thanks 

 

[Olya]

The ProColor/Shikiori steel nibs and feeds are extremely close, if not the same, as the Slim and Standard gold nibs.

The only difference is that the gold nibs and feeds are slightly bigger, by a smallish margin.

[Ste_S]

9 hours ago, Olya said:

The ProColor/Shikiori steel nibs and feeds are extremely close, if not the same, as the Slim and Standard gold nibs.

The only difference is that the gold nibs and feeds are slightly bigger, by a smallish margin.

 

So the writing experience is the same for a given nib size ? The gold nibs just give you more choice in nib sizes?

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, Ste_S said:

So the writing experience is the same for a given nib size ?

 

I wouldn't say that. Furthermore, the ‘medium-sized’ 14K gold nibs on Sailor Profit Standard and Professional Gear Slim have a different geometry from the steel nibs on the Sailor Procolor and Young Profit product lines.

 

1 hour ago, Ste_S said:

The gold nibs just give you more choice in nib sizes?

 

That wasn't the case, either, until Sailor (relatively recently) discontinued the steel-nibbed Young Profit line, which was offered with all seven ‘standard’ Sailor nib options that are still available for its 14K gold nibs.

 

11 hours ago, Sk8rcruz said:

BTW can anyone help me identify this Sailor slim model?

 

The ‘model’ is a Sailor Professional Gear Slim; the pen shown has the same technical (measurements, weight, nib size and material, etc.) specifications as any other Sailor PGS. Pent (which is inscribed on the nib, along with its quill logo) is a company for which Sailor makes plenty of ‘collab’ special editions. Yours is the 幻蒼海 variant in the 彩時記 series.

 

[Ste_S]

50 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

I wouldn't say that. Furthermore, the ‘medium-sized’ 14K gold nibs on Sailor Profit Standard and Professional Gear Slim have a different geometry from the steel nibs on the Sailor Procolor and Young Profit product lines.

 

Thanks for this. What would you say is the difference, when writing, between the 14K and steel nibs?

[Olya]

2 hours ago, Ste_S said:

 

So the writing experience is the same for a given nib size ? The gold nibs just give you more choice in nib sizes?

A Smug Dill explained quite well.

 

There used to be the Young Profit (Somiko) model and this one had all nib sizes as steel version, same nib and feed as the ProC/Shikiori.

I was hoping the ProC would now have all nib sizes, but alas.

 

I have mostly medium nibs and I find there's very little difference between the steel and 14k gold.

Both are ground with the flat foot and angles, both have this weird balance between smooth and toothy (sometimes unpleasant), the gold can be a lick wetter.

 

[A Smug Dill]

14 hours ago, Ste_S said:

What would you say is the difference, when writing, between the 14K and steel nibs?

 

Sorry, mate, but I really don't like answering that kind of question; and so I won't. It's easy for me to show you and/or others differences in writing outcomes produced (and hence demonstrably achievable) with different pens and nibs, when I neither have to nor try to accurately describe the process — the ‘how’ and the user experience — as well. The writing experience is subjective and personal, and most of the time I don't (want to) go out of my way to focus my attention on it, study it, scrutinise it and analyse it, even against my individual preferences in pens and nibs, much less take into consideration anyone else's.

 

The ink and paper used can also make a non-trivial difference to the writing experience. Also, you ought not overlook the fact that while the Sailor Procolor 500 and Profit Standard have almost identical shapes and measurements, the latter is ~40% heavier, and so will handle differently. To meaningfully compare different nibs ‘when writing’ requires keeping too many other variables in the test set-up constant, in addition to paying special attention to various aspects of the experience.

 

As a data point for synthesising answers to the seemingly implied questions of, “What value or benefits would I get additionally by paying more for a 14K gold nib instead of a steel nib of the same make and type?” and/or, “What would I miss out on if I don't?” I don't think someone else's assessment and report of the difference between two of their experiences is particularly useful anyway.

[rosa_m]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:46 AM, Ste_S said:

I recently bought a Sailor Shikiori (Procolor) with steel F nib, and have been very impressed with the writing experience. The pencil like feedback is addicting, and it’s single-handedly turned me on to Japanese fine nibs.

 

Which got me wondering about Sailor‘s 14K nibs in the 1911S and Pro Gear Slim ranges. I’ve read that their 14K nibs are quite firm, so with that in mind, how much difference is there between their steel and 14K nibs?

What are you looking for that the Procolor doesn't have ?

I have a Nagasawa Sailor Procolor M nib that I adore .

And Sailor Limited Edition color 1911 S & L  , both  MF .

The 21k nib on the 1911 L ! , plus the larger size and girth of the body  , make it the standout of the 3 .

 

 

 

 

[Tinjapan]

A while back someone posted a letter from one of the then US pen makers, Sheaffer I think, answering the question of which is better gold or steel nibs.  The letter stated that with modern metallurgy, steel nibs offer the same writing features as gold nibs and that the only reason to choose a gold nib over a steel nib was purely an esthetic one.  

 

That said, even though I have many steel nibbed pens I love, If I have a choice between a gold or steel nib at the same price, I will go for the one with the gold nib.  There is also a limit on how much I will pay for a pen with a steel nib, regardless how well it may write.

[A Smug Dill]

21 minutes ago, Tinjapan said:

If I have a choice between a gold or steel nib at the same price, I will go for the one with the gold nib.

 

I have more than a few Italian and German steel-nibbed pens that cost more individually than my gold-nibbed Platinum Vicoh PTL-5000A or Sailor Promenade, where the ‘choice’ is not expressly and strictly limited to between pens of the same make and product line (e.g. Platinum #3776, Aurora Ipsilon, Diplomat Aero). There's also the question of the condition of the item(s); are we talking only about brand new pens, or used and vintage pens included?

[Tinjapan]

As far as my quoted comment, completely unspecific.  Depends greatly upon the pens involved but a common situation is the case between say a Faber-Castell pen at 50% off for $400 that has a steel nib or a brand new Sailor, Pilot or Platinum pen with a gold nib for around $100 new.  But even with gold nibbed Big 3 Japanese pens, I usually buy mine second hand, so even for less.

 

With vintage pens, depending on how old, gold is the way to go.  The letter I mentioned was from the 80s, or maybe the 70s, anyway, newer than the 50s.  My vintage pens are usually around 100 years old.  Steel nibs of that era are not at all like what we have today and hard to compare with gold of contemporary vintage.  

 

To distill it down, I can not bring myself to pay $400 for a Stella nibbed pen when I can get a gold nibbed pen for around $100 regardless of the quality of the steel nib.  

[Ste_S]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:46 PM, Ste_S said:

I recently bought a Sailor Shikiori (Procolor) with steel F nib, and have been very impressed with the writing experience. The pencil like feedback is addicting, and it’s single-handedly turned me on to Japanese fine nibs.

 

Which got me wondering about Sailor‘s 14K nibs in the 1911S and Pro Gear Slim ranges. I’ve read that their 14K nibs are quite firm, so with that in mind, how much difference is there between their steel and 14K nibs?

 

So to answer my own question after buying a Pro Gear Slim, there's not enough of a difference between between Sailor's steel and gold nibs to make the extra price worth it on nib alone.

[mongrelnomad]

I personally find that the 14k nibs are the sweet-spot of the Sailor line. I have a lot of Sailor pens but find that the 14k nibs seem to synthesize the best aspects of the steel and 21k nibs. I know thats a flabby and subjective assertion, but I stand by it!

[mke]

@Ste_S

> So to answer my own question after buying a Pro Gear Slim, there's not enough of a difference between between Sailor's steel and gold nibs to make the extra price worth it on nib alone.

 

If you really buy just for writing, certainly not. See here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CH7zxyUjeyN/

If you count reselling price, hype and looks - perhaps, there is.

 

Paper and ink (and nib) is influencing your experience probably more than there are differences between steel and gold nibs.

 

--

If I would let you write blindfolded with a Pelikan M800 (gold-nib) and a Hongdian 960, I am sure 99% of the people would not be able to guess which one is which one - from the writing experience only. As long as the Pelikan doesn't squeal (what they often do).

I have two Waldmann Precieux with the "same" gold nib (Jowo 18k EF) - they write EXTREMELY different. [Sailor/Pilot/PLatinum seems to be better, however, regarding differences between lots.]

 

 

---

https://www.instagram.com/mkepens/

 

[MuddyWaters]

On 4/25/2021 at 11:46 PM, Tinjapan said:

As far as my quoted comment, completely unspecific.  Depends greatly upon the pens involved but a common situation is the case between say a Faber-Castell pen at 50% off for $400 that has a steel nib or a brand new Sailor, Pilot or Platinum pen with a gold nib for around $100 new.  But even with gold nibbed Big 3 Japanese pens, I usually buy mine second hand, so even for less.

 

With vintage pens, depending on how old, gold is the way to go.  The letter I mentioned was from the 80s, or maybe the 70s, anyway, newer than the 50s.  My vintage pens are usually around 100 years old.  Steel nibs of that era are not at all like what we have today and hard to compare with gold of contemporary vintage.  

 

To distill it down, I can not bring myself to pay $400 for a Stella nibbed pen when I can get a gold nibbed pen for around $100 regardless of the quality of the steel nib.  

 

Some would say you are getting a much nicer pen body with a Faber Castell than an entry level Japanese gold nib pen. 

 

In the platinum line, I have found the desk pen has as nice of a nib as the 3776 fine or extra fine. The 3776 has a small body made of plastic. I wonder why I didn't just stick with the desk pen.

 

So when it comes to steel vs gold, it's more complex to me. Depends on how the nib feels, and how comfortable the body is. The latter cna be taken for granted but full sized pens actually command a higher price on the market for whatever reason and that's just the way it is unfortunately.