Do You Agree With This Statement: People Always Love Their First Gold Nib Better Than Other Pens That Work Better

[Arkanabar]

18 hours ago, welch said:

No. People always love most their first pen that writes well. Nothing about gold nib to it. I still love my Parker 45 from 1960, after writing with scratchy Sheaffer School Pens for two or three years before. <snip>

This.  If I still had the A&W Sizzle Stix (apparently made for the US market by Reform) or the Sheaffer school pen I bought in the mid 80s, I'd probably still be writing with them.  But I don't.  After I got back into using fountain pens in the mid 90s, the first pen I loved was a Pelikan M200 F, and I still have, love, and use it.

 

My first gold nib pen was a Pilot VP stealth model.  I never really liked the grip, or the weight, so I gave it to my wife, who lost it.  My second gold nib pen was a Pelikan M400, and I never liked it as well as the M200 that I got before -- the nib was stiffer and broader, which, given my cramped narrow awful handwriting, was problematic.  Getting it stubbed has not improved my opinion of it, and I love stubs.

 

In fact, I still don't have a gold nib pen that I actually like. 

 

Collector, the thing about answering everybody is not that it's bad, but that every answer does not require its own post.  Left of the "Quote" link under every post is a + sign.  Click those as you go along, and when you get to the end, click the "Quote n posts" button that will pop up on the lower right part of the window.  Edit long replies down to what you want to respond to so as to improve clarity.  I also tend to compose my answers in a notepad or something like it, and copy/paste into the posting form.

[Bo Bo Olson]

1 minute ago, Arkanabar said:

My second gold nib pen was a Pelikan M400, and I never liked it as well as the M200 that I got before -- the nib was stiffer and broader,

The semi-vintage, '82-91 are W.Germany and a bit better than the '92-97 400..............all of Pelikan's pens of that era were regular flex, be it the 800, 600, 400, 200 or 150. (151 was for the Italian market, looks similar to the 120 but with a 'modern' cap.)

The only good nib Pelikan makes today is the classic 200's nib.

I had a semi-nail fat and blobby 605 that I got in BB so that eventually I'd get made into stub or CI. I got that now in 1.0 or B stub.

My 1005 OBB is regular flex but fatter than my 600 OBB by at least 1/2 a width.

The '98-2010? Bock 1000's nib was semi-flex....when Pelikan took the Nibs back In House the semi-flex 1000 became regular flex.............too many bent nibs from the ham fisted.

 

Folks use to complain bitterly about the Bock nibs, when In House the Exact Same Complaints continued.In Bock made Pelikans nibs exactly to Pelikans new '98 specs.

 

I do recommend the regular flex nibs, be that the semi-vintage gold 400/600/800 or the gold plated or steel 200's or 150's, if one is after a small pen***, even though I had to return to tripod for the short 800........it is too back heavy to post. Too short to use the Forefinger Up method of grasping it. Do really like that W.Germany gold nib....even though as OM, it has but a whisper of line variation compared to the shout of a Vintage semi-flex oblique.

The 200/400/600 has great balance posted.

 

I also think one should have a few semi-flex nibs of the 400/400nn or 140, that gives you that old fashioned fountain pen flair with out doing anything at all.

 

*** The medium-long 140 has a long cap, so is exactly the same length as the 400, posted. Same great balance.....a great pocket pen....even for modern 'short shirt pockets'.

I have two 150's and a 151, but I've never sat down and rated them.

Some folks like a thin pen, and that would be the one to get; having a good springy regular flex nib.

 

I get a bit irate, when folks say a standard sized 400 is too small....and they refuse for religious grounds, to post the pen like it was designed to be.

Posted the 200/400/600 has Great Balance.....as was needed back in the day when one wrote with a fountain pen at work all day long....a light, nimble and well balanced pen was used....and not just not taking at a conference table....where bigger is seen.

 

I do understand, that the youth.....post '70's, grew up thinking a Large pen was normal. In bling saved the fountain pen industry.

Out side the  P-45 (second model)  and the Snorkel, I haven't run into any Large pens with good balance. But they were designed back when good to great balance was a major selling point in the day of One Man, One Pen.....   My God, an ill balanced pen could make one change Brands.

Like a Chevy guy, having to buy a Ford. In One Pen days brand loyalty was paramount to the company's success or failure.

 

The modern, '70 and later 146 is nimbler than expected and 'almost' has good balance. The old medium large '50-69 146 has great balance. And of course a better nib.

 

[N1003U]

20 hours ago, welch said:

No. People always love most their first pen that writes well. Nothing about gold nib to it. I still love my Parker 45 from 1960, after writing with scratchy Sheaffer School Pens for two or three years before. It happens that the P-45 had a medium gold nib and the Sheaffers had steel nibs, but that had nothing to do with anything.

 

I write with two alternating Parker 51s now, but I have assembled a duplicate P-45...midnight blue, brushed steel cap, medium gold nib, and original squeeze converter. Come to think of it, I would recommend a Parker 45 as anyone's first pen. Inexpensive, unless the seller has delusions of grandeur ("this pen is more than ten years old and so it is vintage and so it is just like a Vacumatic"). Every part can be swapped with a part from another P-45. Any cartridge or converter from Parker can fit. The first "user service-able" fountain pen. Nibs unscrew, and most sell for about $15 each.

 

+1

 

1 hour ago, Arkanabar said:

This.  If I still had the A&W Sizzle Stix (apparently made for the US market by Reform) or the Sheaffer school pen I bought in the mid 80s, I'd probably still be writing with them.  But I don't.  After I got back into using fountain pens in the mid 90s, the first pen I loved was a Pelikan M200 F, and I still have, love, and use it.

 

My first gold nib pen was a Pilot VP stealth model.  I never really liked the grip, or the weight, so I gave it to my wife, who lost it.  My second gold nib pen was a Pelikan M400, and I never liked it as well as the M200 that I got before -- the nib was stiffer and broader, which, given my cramped narrow awful handwriting, was problematic.  Getting it stubbed has not improved my opinion of it, and I love stubs.

 

+1 (or is that +2?) My least-favorite gold nib is probably the "fat and blobby" "M" I have on a 2019 M400 that writes like a drunken "B" (very wide, and not very clean--it is actually the blue M400 shown in my avatar picture). I don't know if the specifications were different 15 years ago, but I have another M400 with a gold "M" nib from the mid 2000s that is much crisper and more controllable.

 

1 hour ago, Arkanabar said:

 

In fact, I still don't have a gold nib pen that I actually like. 

 

I have a couple gold nibs that I like, but, that said, it is not necessarily because they are gold. It is because they write well.

 

43 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

I get a bit irate, when folks say a standard sized 400 is too small....and they refuse for religious grounds, to post the pen like it was designed to be.

 

A standard sized 400 is too small ... 😛

 

(Not by much though: I prefer the M600 size only very slightly.)

 

 

43 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Posted the 200/400/600 has Great Balance.....as was needed back in the day when one wrote with a fountain pen at work all day long....a light, nimble and well balanced pen was used....and not just not taking at a conference table....where bigger is seen.

 

I agree that the M2xx/4xx/6xx models are a delight to use, and the modern Pelikan steel nibs are the best in the Pelikan stable. When posted, the 200/400/600 models sing and dance with excellent balance and provide me quite often with those "Moments of Joy."

 

Fortunately, my faith does not prevent me from posting pens whose performance benefits therefrom.

 

I recently also bought a modern M101N, and I really WANT to like it, and I can't say I can find anything wrong with it (though the nib is somewhat uninspired), but for some reason the M101N doesn't float my boat, and as a result spends a lot of time sitting unused in storage. I pick it up and ink it from time to time, but it is not often in rotation.

 

[Geslina]

In my limited experience (I only have 14 pens) I would say no.  There is a certain elegance to writing with a gold nib, but it doesn’t mean my steel nib pens get any less attention.  It just depends on my mood.  I also have found that not every pen works or writes nicely with every ink or on every paper....so since I have a lot of different inks and paper, I choose which pen I’m going to use based mostly on those things.

[Honeybadgers]

Love it more than ALL my other pens? No. Of course not. It's a kinda dumpy looking sheaffer craftsman.

 

But do I love it more than some pens that do actually work better? Yeah, I do. I do enjoy it from sentiment point of view. It's good, and I was lucky to get my first gold nib pen and have it be very much in line with what my final tastes tended towards anyways. I'm absolutely never going to sell it, though it's far from my most prized posessions (which would be my mom's waterman phileas with an 18k nib upgrade, the wahl doric Ron Z restored, a visconti divina metro and my wancher dragon maki-e kanazawa)

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm gonna go ink it for my notes today

 

 

[collectorofmanythings]

On 4/11/2021 at 9:18 PM, bunnspecial said:

 

I have to admit that Sailors have never interested me that much. I owe it to myself to try one, but I'm not itching to try it. I've been told the 21K nibs tend toward stiff, although obviously can't say as I haven't handled one first hand. That's getting into the range where gold is soft enough that I imagine the thickness, tempering, and "other stuff" in the alloy have to make up for it. A lot of the good nib guys seem to think 14K is ideal for flex.

 

In any case, I've found the feedback I like in several MB nibs among others. As I said, my 14 is as perfect as I could imagine.

 

As another comment, one of my favorite "not gold" nibs is the Pd-Ag nib used on some Snorkels. These were less expensive than the 14K nibs on those pens, but the ones I have are fantastic writers.

Well, even if you don’t want to buy one, I would recommend trying one. Unlike @Bo Bo Olson, I do not find their 21k nibs to be mushy. And if you try one and don’t like it, then don’t buy it. Don’t waste your money on a pen you don’t like! I just find they have a nice pencil like feedback. If you don’t like them, then more power to you! Anyway, thank you for your response.

[Detman101]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:46 AM, collectorofmanythings said:

Like Brian Goulet loves his Custom 74 and Kerry from Pens and Tea loves her Platinum 3776 Century and I personally love my Sailor Pro Gear Slim Mini. Do you personally like your first gold nib more than other pens that write, look, feel, etc. better? Thank you for your responses!

 

W. H. Major

My first gold nib is a "Franklin-Christoph" 14k Flex nib, customized by Gena Salorino of CustomNibStudio.
It's absolutely dreamy with it's mega-flexy XXF tip.
But I'm learning how to use it effectively, it's so delicate and requires such a light touch...and I'm just not there yet.
Not sure if i'll ever get there, it may need to go to another home.
I worry about bending the tines or "Springing" it I think it's called.
I'm much more comfortable with my "Secretary of De Flex" steel flex nib...it's not as soft and delicate as the "F-C" flex nib but does all the same things that I need.

So I guess no...I do not love my first Gold nib pen more than my other pens.

[Bo Bo Olson]

11 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

Unlike @Bo Bo Olson, I do not find their 21k nibs to be mushy.

I read that often here over the decade or so that I've been here.

Back when the Gold Myth was more prevalent, there had been much  talked about the Sailor 'soft' 21 K nib.

 

I own no Japanese pens, having sold the nail Shaffer I had that was made in Japan.

In a decade, a company can change their nib philosophy, like Pelikan did in way back in the year  '98.

So once the 21 K nibs were considered mushy and easy to bend....if no longer easy to bend and is a nail, they changed the composition of the gold alloy.

 

[maclink]

In my opinion, The Sailor 1911L nib is more about the grind and the tuning than anything else. It’s a semi-nail.

[readytotalk]

The modern Sailor 21K nibs are supposed to have a precisely adjusted gap between tip halves.

But now most of their pens have overtighten nib, and then uncomfortable writing, until the gap is set correctly.

And I absolutely agree, something has been definitely changed in construction of Sailor nibs. Alloy composition or maybe metal thickness to change elasticity. 

 

[Ron Z]

On 4/12/2021 at 8:28 AM, Bo Bo Olson said:

I get a bit irate, when folks say a standard sized 400 is too small....and they refuse for religious grounds, to post the pen like it was designed to be.

 

Prepare to be irate.   I always post, and I still think that the 200/400 is too small, even when posted.  I find the 600 to be much more comfortable.  It's the girth of the pen that's the problem, and always has been.    You'd also hate me for the nib that I have in the pen.  Hint: it isn't Pelikan.

[Aysedasi]

Yes, the 200/400 is way too small for me, even the 600 is on the little side as far as I'm concerned (all when posted).  I currently use an 800..... posted.  My recently acquired Ranga 9B Giant is just about right for me...... 

[bunnspecial]

I used a 205 for years, but going back to it now I find the diameter too small as well. 
 

I can sound like a broken record, but the 146 is my benchmark pen size. If it’s much smaller in diameter than one, I’m likely to find it uncomfortable even though there are exceptions that for whatever reason work fine for me. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I like the 600 also; how ever grew up with standard sized pens, like the metal topped Esterbrook and Shaffer school pens; being a workers kid even had both my Wearever and even the Venus stolen.....anyone who would steal a Venus was just a thief not a pen collector.

Every year they stole my fountain pen, and for a while my status Jotter. Then the Papermate....no one ever stole the Black Government issue Skill Craft......and no, we did not know that the blind were being paid slave labor.....One of the selling points was give the blind a job.

 

We, back before Color TV thought a medium large P-51 a big pen. An Adult pen.

When I finally got P-51 (The Snorkel was a couple years later) , 40 years after getting a job as an adult and could afford them, I was a Ball Point Barbarian.....hell even Bic's would be stolen, so one kept the cap in one's shirt pocket.

The P-51 sits, in one must have a P-51, but I seldom as a green moon use a nail.

[maclink]

9 hours ago, Aysedasi said:

My recently acquired Ranga 9B Giant is just about right for me...... 

That's a huge one.  Do you post it as well? 

[sansenri]

I love my first steel nib (my first nib and my first pen, Pelikan 120) better than quite a few other gold nib pens...

Then again, when I did strike a very good gold nib, that did change my horizon (Omas Milord).

 

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

The 120 is a regular flex nib, similar to the '80-97 gold 400 and the 200's.

I have a once near mint 120, my auto mechanic gave me because he knew I collected fountain pens.

I don't use it as much as I could....but I Do have Too Many pens!!!

[dragondazd]

Yes! I bought my first gold nib 2.5 years ago and I haven't gotten around to trying another one. It's a stub that only works on a very flat surface so I bought notebooks to work with it. My paycheck needs to expand so I can feel comfortable  branching out!

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

 

As a child, I expected a gold nib on an Adult pen.  One of which I'd promised my self when I became an adult and had a job.

In the meanwhile, I'd become a ball point barbarian and spared no thought to fountain pens, outside an occasional at Christmas fountain pen advertisements.

 

 

I just realized I bought my first gold nib in 1970/71, with a silver Cicelé P-75.

The PX/BX did it appear give great deals; I paid $22 in silver money for a $30 dollar pen. The most expensive 'basic' pen (non-gold) I knew of....shocking price when you could get a P-51 or Snorkel for under $15.

Semi-nail, not that I knew about that.

The P-75 is a light pen for metal, and is standard sized. 

That twist adjust the nib; really was just for if you were left eye dominate and wanted to see the top of the nib; so turned it as much as you needed; in on an M, it made no difference to the writing to twist the of the nib.

I have and had the nib in a non-twist position.

 

Meanwhile, in Germany Geha was selling it's very sleek classy rolled gold trim black semi-flex inlaid nibbed 725 for $90 or DM360.....not that I knew nor cared....now I have one of both. It is #2 in my balance test, and the P-75 was #3.

When I was a 20 pen noobie I did a balance test.....with 70-80 pens now, there is no way to do such again. So I have 15 top 5 balanced pens.....perhaps 25?

 

I had gone to the BX to buy a high class, most status US ball point the matt black thin Cross, that cost a whole $8.00 vs $3.75 for a Jotter.

I was drooling over a black and gold Snorkel when I got mugged by the P-75 brothers. The matching ball point cost a whole $18. (Take That Cross!!!)

 

You've heard of a Fool and His Money....well now a life time later, I'm not as foolish as once.

As long as I don't sell in a Depression, I've actually made money on my P-75 and his little brother.

One of my main Impulse Buys.