I just going to say it... I personally hate the look of the Lamy Safari and All TWSBIs.

[collectorofmanythings]

Very interesting posts from @inkstainedruth, @Etsycollector, @maclink, and @mouse2cat. Though @mouse2cat I don’t agree with you that the metro is trying to look fancier than it is. I think it’s a great quality pen and quite understated. But I understand about your point that no one is going to mug you for a Safari 😂. Glad it brought you into fountain pens! Have a hood day, and thank you all for your responses!

[inkstainedruth]

If people had seen the eBay prices for NOS French Blue Safaris, they WOULD be mugging people....  I mean, I paid less than that for my most expensive Parker 51.... 

So lucky I ran across the seller with a used one for not that much more than a list price for a new al-Star!

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[chromantic]

I don't have any real problem with the plain Jane look of the Safari (in fact, I think the wire clip is a nice touch) but I really dislike the triangular section so no Safaris for me.

 

The Eco is another ho-hum plain Jane, neither here nor there. The mini-vac looks ok and I've been tempted to try one but haven't due to the persistence of the reported cracking problems. The Diamond is a big no, however, the faceted barrel just rubs me the wrong way.

[bunnspecial]

I go back and forth on the Safari(and Al-Star) and I have a few.

 

They were actually one of my first real life intros to FPs from people who used them regularly. When I was in graduate school, one professor who I admired greatly, a good native Kentucky fellow who I connected with on a lot of levels even though he was/is a well published and well respected synthetic organic chemist who my school had kind of hunted from UC Davis to get him to come back to his own state...but in any case he was a fountain pen guy, although nowhere near to the level I would eventually become. He was a frequent traveler to Germany, and Safaris were his favorite souvenir from a trip there. Before he told me about them, though, I'd seen another student who'd started the same time as me using a bright yellow BP, and I wondered what on earth the deal was with the big paperclip holding it in his pocket.

 

I bought my first Safari after I'd had several other pens. Basically, though, I found it to just be just a solid writing pen. Right now I have a read one with a broad nib and charcoal black in EF. Somewhere, packed in a box from moving, I have a blue one in M.

 

Back when I started on FPN, TWSBIs were all the rage. I honestly hadn't even heard of the brand, but I was looking for a nice "gift to myself" pen for passing my qualifying exams in graduate school. I was weighing a Lamy 2000 and a Vanishing Point, but said specifically that I was targeting a $100-200 budget and was adamant about it being a gold nib(I know that's another can of worms, but for this purchase that was one of my criteria) but soliciting other suggestions. A TWSBI was one of the first suggestions, and at the time I hadn't heard of them. I went and looked and thought "this thing is ugly", plus it failed my gold nib criteria. In general, I don't care for demonstrators, a preference that really hasn't changed even though I have owned a few. I came back and said that I didn't care for the aesthetics, that again I don't like demonstrators, and that it didn't have a gold nib, and that same person basically said "Get over yourself and your aesthetic and nib material preferences. It's the best pen you can buy and you'll be sorry you didn't." I'm paraphrasing, but that statement REALLY turned me off the brand. BTW, I bought the 2000. 10 years later, I still don't have a TWSBI. The aesthetics have grown on me a bit, but I'm still neutral on them. I've had a Vac 700R in my cart at Goulet a couple of times, but have never pulled the trigger, partially because I read reviews and get mixed opinions on that particular pen. Maybe I'll finally buy one sometime, but it's not a high priority.

[pajaro]

Depends on the color. 

 

[gyasko]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:05 AM, David_Anderson said:

I am not a fan of the shape or looks of the Safari/Al Star/Vista series. Perhaps it's because the colours and chunky design have an almost childish quality. I prefer pens with a more traditional or classic appearance. On the other hand I do admire TWSBI pens whether you are talking about the simple Eco or the gorgeous new Draco.

 

 

Do you have an issue with the MB 13x series, Waterman BCHR pens, Sheaffer flattops & Targas, Parker Duofold & Wahl Decoband as well?  When capped, these have the same flattop shape of the Safari/Al-Star/Vista. 

[Arkanabar]

De gustibus non est disputandem.  That is, in matters of taste, there are no (rational) arguments.

 

I don't like the Safari either.  It's too long for my pockets.  The section is uncomfortable.  The rhino-hide, 90s computer keyboard finish on my first one (in Charcoal) was obnoxious.  The clip is actually wonderfully functional, but in my opinion, the rest of the pen's visual aesthetics are displeasing.

 

People who love the Safari (and its siblings, Vista, Al-Star, LX, and Joy) seem to love it for its durability (it is a school pen, after all), performance, easily swapped inexpensive nibs (shared among most Lamy pens), and comfort (which is personal).  I know that Lamy afficianados are numerous, and so when I talk about it, I don't tell people that they ought not to like the Safari, but that, like me, they may not, and should be ready for that.  For those who can't try one for a page or two risk free, I often suggest a Jinhao 599 or other similar Chinese knock-off homage, as they're available for less than 3USD if you look around a little.

 

Similar reasons seem to obtain for the Pilot MR line (Metropolitan, Retro Pop, Cocoon).  Many love it; it's reliable, tough (brass after all), affordable, and has a simple, classic shape.  But I dislike its weight, its narrow section, and the step between barrel and grip.

 

The potential pitfalls of these two pens are why I often pipe up in "What first pen should I get?" threads to recommend the Platinum Plaisir.  It has a noticeably wider section diameter, light weight, no step, and no facets.  The chrome cap lip ring is big and clunky, which is a turn off for some.  For a few years, Platinum was putting some horrible coating on the nibs to color-match the barrels that flaked off in use, but they seem to have learned their lesson and given up on that practice.

 

I really prefer the classic shape of (e.g.) Fountain Pen Revolution's Himalaya, with its soft tapers and rounded corners.

My favorite pen of the last few years is a sadly now-defunct red FPR Jaipur stub that one of my puppies got off my desk and chewed to smithereens.  I didn't like its straight-sided cap, pointed derby, and narrower piston knob, but I loved its balance, straight grip section, flow, and nib.  No pen has provided me with greater writing comfort.

 

Nothing in the visuals of e.g. a TWSBI 580 or Vac Mini offends me, but I've never held either, and would want to before buying.

[A Smug Dill]

Personally, I have no love for the the Lamy Safari and Al-Star, although I have one of each in my fleet — or, more accurately on account of my rarely inking and using them but simply want to have them on hand for reference, library — of pens because they are iconic fountain pen models, albeit not attractive ones.

 

On the other hand, I have an active (if mild) dislike of TWSBI as a brand by reputation only, but never owned or used one myself; I came ‘this close’ to buying one at a discounted price to pad an order so as to qualify for free international shipping, but aborted the checkout process at the last step because of all the talk of issues with the long-term integrity of TWSBI pens' bodies. I have equally ‘ugly’ pens, such as the Wing Sung 3008, which I love for what they are — dirt cheap Chinese piston-fillers that nevertheless function well and can be easily and fully disassembled, even if one may never want to be see writing with such a pen in the boardroom or in polite company, unless one has attained such cultivation to believe and say, ”This contract I'm signing is worth $X million. Does anyone — including me, the other party, etc. — really care that I'm signing it with a $4 fountain pen?” Even though being a tinkerer's delight wouldn't endear a pen to me, I can see the value of $5 pens and $500 pens that one would disassemble to ‘play‘ with. It's the supposed value proposition of TWSBI, marketing its pens as something anyone can get competent at disassembling for cleaning and what-not (as can the Pali 013, Wing Sung 3008, PenBBS 309, Lamy 2000, and Aurora 88), but positioning itself as being of better quality than other Chinese pens but more economically sound than playing with German and Italian pens in the same way, in conjunction with the pens' physical appearance/style that I find a turn-off.

[amk]

I love my Lamy 2000s. I have a few Safaris, don't collect them but find them really nice everyday user pens. I love the choice of colour, from neon through to gaudy to subdued to pastel, will suit anyone or any mood. I love the no-nonsense feeling, the satisfying click the cap makes, the ink window, nib swappability and price.

 

I love the fact that they have character. Lots of pens look pretty much like other pens - Lamy Safaris don't. 

 

Pilot Parallel is another pen I really rate for doing its job well - completely the opposite of Safari in one way, it's all curves and tapers, but the simplicity is very similar.

 

Yes, I also love vintage celluloids, Parker 51s, Pelikans, and Edison Colliers. And I don't really like Italian bling or over-ornamented pens (here's looking at you Montblanc Writer's Edition). 

[Geslina]

I don’t own any Lamy pens.  They have just never appealed to me, I don’t get all the love for them - though the Safari is certainly affordable and the colors are fun!  I have one Twsbi, the Diamond Mini.  It was my first pen.  I researched for weeks and weeks, because I knew I wanted to get a better quality pen as my first, without spending too much...and the pen was a major disappointment.  I got an EF and it was a hard, scratchy mess, and had flow problems.  Someone here was kind enough to send me some Mylar, and it helped a little bit, but based on my experience, I probably won’t buy another Twsbi.  In the low price ranges, I think the Pilot pens perform the best.

[bunnspecial]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Even though being a tinkerer's delight wouldn't endear a pen to me, I can see the value of $5 pens and $500 pens that one would disassemble to ‘play‘ with.

 

To be honest, though, are they really a tinkerer's pen? Yes, they can be taken apart easily, but are they designed to easily do much more than take apart easily?

 

When I think of a tinkerer's pen, I think of Noodler's pens like the Ahab, Konrad, etc. They're specifically made with ebonite feeds for easy modification and doing things like heat setting to the nib, and of the handful I've had it's luck of the draw whether or not you're going to unbox one and have it write halfway decently. You're really SUPPOSED to play with the nib-feed gap, alignment, etc. and the parts fit together in such a way that you can easily do that without worrying too much about damaging the pen. The nib is also generously sized(physically) so that you have a lot of metal if you want to try and change the flex pressure or whatever by changing the nib shape.

[Honeybadgers]

I do like most twsbi's aesthetics. I just don't think the function ever quite works for me. The mini being a screw post kind of ruined it, the 580's inability to post kinda ruined it.

 

As for lamy, I agree. I don't hate the safari, but I am plenty satisfied with having one in petrol and an al-star in charged green. I like having them for "random collection urge" sake, but I'm never going to actually use them.

 

Saw a doctor at my local ER using a safari though, he was super excited to see my tactile turn gist and pulled out his own ballpoint tactile turn.

[palaiophron]

The shape is simple & functional, perhaps giving more attention to the color scheme? They've got a decent business model down then, releasing a new color every year. I think most of the other Lamys are rather unsightly, and don't usually like Bauhaus design; ironically it comes off as very clumsy at times to me. Where are the rococo pens?

[Bo Bo Olson]

17 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

TWSBIs were all the rage.

Taiwanese start up pen, the part owner or manager came on the Com, to ask us what we wanted in a pen...............and because they fell apart a lot , there was an immediate free replacement. Which folks thought neat.

Listening to those on the com who bought it, improved the pen.

 

Back then old used pens were cheaper than today, so I chased the mostly semi-flex vintage pens I'd been chasing. Twsbi didn't have semi-flex.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Wolfgang Fabian

Wolfgang Fabian was born in 1943 and was a qualified goldsmith before studying industrial design.

 

There are many well qualified designers who have designed for Lamy....even a Japanese fella.

They were not pure factory designers.........odd that considering the large designer room I saw on my factory tour. I guess they do the fiddly bits.

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

9 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

To be honest, though, are they really a tinkerer's pen? Yes, they can be taken apart easily, but are they designed to easily do much more than take apart easily?

 

Exactly why I placed the emphasis on the marketing aspect, as far as TWSBI being tinkerer's pens is concerned, packaged with a wrench/tool and all; and regard the brand more poorly for it. I have far more respect for PenBBS pens in that regard; you can buy spare nibs and bags of spare parts as retail products offered by the manufacturer, but leave it to the interested individual — with or without getting help from like-minded users with more experience — to figure out what they want to do with all that and take any procedural risks; many, for example, including myself have inadvertently damaged the factory-fitted feeds on PenBBS pens trying to pull the nibs out. That's tinkering.

[bunnspecial]

3 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Exactly why I placed the emphasis on the marketing aspect, as far as TWSBI being tinkerer's pens is concerned, packaged with a wrench/tool and all; and regard the brand more poorly for it. I have far more respect for PenBBS pens in that regard; you can buy spare nibs and bags of spare parts as retail products offered by the manufacturer, but leave it to the interested individual — with or without getting help from like-minded users with more experience — to figure out what they want to do with all that and take any procedural risks; many, for example, including myself have inadvertently damaged the factory-fitted feeds on PenBBS pens trying to pull the nibs out. That's tinkering.

 

I think you and I are on the same page on our definition of tinkering.

 

I am aware of PenBBS products but don't have a lot of knowledge of their specifics.

 

From what I seem to gather, they seem to be solid out-of-the-box products, but from your post it seems that they do encourage easy tinkering and modification.

 

That, in and of itself is different from the Noodler's pens, where as I said and in my experience, you're not even guaranteed great out of the box performance, but rather a pen that's easy to set up how you want it and cheap enough that you can learn to do so.

[A Smug Dill]

33 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

From what I seem to gather, they seem to be solid out-of-the-box products, but from your post it seems that they do encourage easy tinkering and modification.

 

The factory label on the ‘spare’ nib SKU — a clear zip-lock bag containing the acrylic pendant case which in turn contains the nib-feed-collar assembly — says “替換笔尖", which is literally “swap nib” or “replacement nib”.

 

The factory label on the bag-of-spare-parts SKU says ”易損耗替換零件”, which is literally “easily damaged/consumed replacement parts” or, more sensibly translated, ”replacements for easily damaged/worn-out parts”.

 

So it's expected that some users will swap different nibs into PenBBS pens they already own — especially when a lot of models are/were only offered as retail products factory-fitted with the upturned F nib by default — and some users will want to service the pens themselves when they break (say, the feed or nib housing collar) or lose (say, O-rings) some component of the pen, so support for such is already in place.

 

You can build your own spare nib units with of some non-PenBBS nib; the spare parts include feeds, housing collar, and O-rings (as well as converters, and even piston shaft and plug for the piston-filled model 309) with that; I have several of those now with different Nemosine nibs. But I wouldn't go so far as to say the manufacturer encourages tinkering and modification; it certainly doesn't suggest that in any official marketing material (as far as I'm aware), and spare parts are not supplied by default in each PenBBS pen's retail package.

 

That's an entirely different approach to either TWSBI or Noodler's.

[Naoki NISHIKAWA]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:35 AM, collectorofmanythings said:

why you like the look of these pens.

 

I do not like the look of Lamy Safari nor Twisbi. Nor, so far, the aesthetic appearance has never been my priority when I buy a FP. But I guess I can fully understand some people would attach, to the certain extent, some priority to the look of FPs. In Japan, some people tweet photographs of their hand written texts together with a part of the FP (typically nib + section) they used to hand write the text shown in the same picture. I believe typically young ladies do that. The papers they use are beautiful to your eyes, the color of the ink they use is also beautiful, and so on. In that usage I would assume they prefer picture of beautiful looking pen. More accurately what they call "instagenic" or "instagrammable" or "SNS-worthy". Note we can safely assume that they do not want to use bad quality FPs either, and we all know Lamy Safari or Twisbi is not at all bad quality pens. They may not be the best in the market, but they are not at all bad. Also, we can assume they do not go for super expensive "urushi" FPs and such since I believe most of them doing that are junior high school students, etc. I myself personally prefer "butsudan" or "Buddhist alter" (*1) finish pens to Lamy Safari or Twisbi, but then I am 58 year old man... 

 

(*1)  In Japan, those boring finishes with black plastic and gold band is called "Buddhist alter" finish.   

[Naoki NISHIKAWA]

8 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

I wouldn't go so far as to say the manufacturer encourages tinkering and modification;

 

100% true. Maybe, juuuuust  may be, with a possible minor exception.  I think PenBBS is saying that the slit is intentionally set on the narrow side as they ship their FPs, that is ink flow is intentionally limited to just a little bit on the dry side as factory fresh. One may be able to argue that they expect some people would grab their thickness gauges (say, 0.14mm) from their tooling boxes.