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Santini Libra Ebonite with an EF "superflexy" nib - initial impressions


Vintage_BE

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Even just a standard western EF tip seems like it would be a no-brainer. Why EVERY company that makes a soft or flexible nib seems incapable of doing anything other than an F is beyond me.

 

Even pilot's FA nib, which is absolutely the most flexible mainstream nib you can buy, comes in an F. I don't get it.

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1 minute ago, Honeybadgers said:

Even just a standard western EF tip seems like it would be a no-brainer. Why EVERY company that makes a soft or flexible nib seems incapable of doing anything other than an F is beyond me.

 

Even pilot's FA nib, which is absolutely the most flexible mainstream nib you can buy, comes in an F. I don't get it.

 

The Montblanc 149 flex is a true EF, I'd say.

 

The topside of a nib is its face, the underside its soul (user readytotalk)

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2 minutes ago, Nurmister said:

The Montblanc 149 flex is a true EF, I'd say

agree, measured it at 0.3mm on tomoe river with montblanc permanent blue

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On 4/13/2021 at 4:05 AM, Honeybadgers said:

I feel like that's the biggest failing of modern flex nibs. They all seem terrified of making them with a proper EF or needlepoint tip, which is required to really get the most out of a limited amount of flex.

 

Maybe getting “the most out of” flex nibs, as in the range of line widths measured in multiples of the at-rest or writing-with-nil-downward-pressure line width, is not the point of the writing instruments as far as their designers and manufacturers are concerned. Which calligraphic hand requires a ≥300% increase in line width to either be true to its prescribed form, or be ‘expressive’ with line variation?

 

I like very fine nibs; you know I do, and you already think I'm so particular in my requirements that it makes me an edge-case customer or user. That's fine, and even so, I'd still say designers need not care about the requirements of the particular individual, minority and/or edge-case prospective customer who does not define or represent the target market of a product design.

 

1 hour ago, Honeybadgers said:

Even pilot's FA nib, which is absolutely the most flexible mainstream nib you can buy, comes in an F. I don't get it.

 

Perhaps that is what is most suitable for Pilot's target market and/or purpose for that design. It doesn't matter if you, or anyone else, find it “so close yet so far” for what you want to do in the name of flex writing; Pilot doesn't even advertise it as a flex nib, or being suitable for writing in Copperplate or whichever English calligraphic hand.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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14 hours ago, Nurmister said:

The Montblanc 149 flex is a true EF, I'd say.

I'm not sure whether this is helpful for the "extra fine" debate, but FWIW here is a quick writing sample comparing my Santini EF with a few other well known nibs. As you can see in the picture, Santini's EF is a bit finer than a Pilot #10 FA and roughly on par with a Jowo #6 steel EF nib.

IMG_4090.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, Vintage_BE said:

I'm not sure whether this is helpful for the "extra fine" debate, but FWIW here is a quick writing sample comparing my Santini EF with a few other well known nibs. As you can see in the picture, Santini's EF is a bit finer than a Pilot #10 FA and roughly on par with a Jowo #6 steel EF nib.

...

 

Thanks for the reference! The Montblanc is about the same without pressure. Santini ground the nib true to size.

 

The topside of a nib is its face, the underside its soul (user readytotalk)

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Thank you @Vintage_BEfor the great review! Very thorough. I have come across Santini recently and am really intrigued by their seemingly high quality and very reasonable prices. I am very intrigued by the Safira in particular which looks Impero-like. 

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On 4/11/2021 at 1:44 AM, Gloucesterman said:

Definitely going to get one of the Santini pens.

 

Looking for advice as to which way to go. Ebay or direct? By the bay it's about $25-35 less expensive. That includes currency conversion cost, s&h, and PP (MA sales tax included).

 

If anyone has an opinion or even thoughts about which way to go I am open to suggestions and comments. Feel free to PM me or to post here on FPN. BTW, yes, the added cost would be a bit of burden but not necessarily a deal breaker. It might mean ordering later as opposed to sooner.

 

Oh, one other comment. I sent a question to the Bay seller last week about nib availability and have not heard back 4-5 days later. Should I take that as an omen?

 

Thank you for any feedback.

Dear Gloucesterman,

 

I have sent you a private message.

 

Regards

 

kavanagh

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great review. This manufacturer has been on my radar for a while. I just put through my order for the Michelangelo eagle wings last week. Hope to be able to share my experience next week. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Hello all- Great review! I've had my eye on these for a while now, and in about a month I'll be able to pick up an ebonite Libra from them. If I love it as much as I think I will, it won't be my last Santini. Any thoughts on the best route for a flexible ~.8mm oblique stub from them? I wrote customer service and they asked if I'm left-handed (I'm not), but they did not respond when I answered. I like flexible obliques that have line variation, flexed or unflexed. I was considering getting a super flex from them with a broad nib and asking Mike Masuyama to grind it to a left-foot oblique stub for me. For my nib lovers out there, what would you do? 

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16 hours ago, Penriz said:

Hello all- Great review! I've had my eye on these for a while now, and in about a month I'll be able to pick up an ebonite Libra from them. If I love it as much as I think I will, it won't be my last Santini. Any thoughts on the best route for a flexible ~.8mm oblique stub from them? I wrote customer service and they asked if I'm left-handed (I'm not), but they did not respond when I answered. I like flexible obliques that have line variation, flexed or unflexed. I was considering getting a super flex from them with a broad nib and asking Mike Masuyama to grind it to a left-foot oblique stub for me. For my nib lovers out there, what would you do? 

Regarding your thoughts about having MM grind it to a LO stub, keep in mind that (it's my understanding) many nibmeisters strongly advocate against modifying an 18K nib. Even though this is already a super-flex nib there may be issues with your desired mod.

 

You may want to check with him (or others) prior to your purchase.

“Don't put off till tomorrow what you can do today, because if you do it today and like it, you can do again tomorrow!”

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4 hours ago, Gloucesterman said:

many nibmeisters strongly advocate against modifying an 18K nib.

 

First time hearing this. Santini ground an 18k super-flex 0.6 CI for me. I'm very happy with it.

Anabelle Hiller ground my 18k M1005 nib to a crisp 0.5 CI, and I'm happy with that as well.

Add lightness and simplicate.

 

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Thank you again for the review.

 

My Libra in Cumberland ebonite and bronze trim arrived as scheduled end of last month but I had not yet had time to take some photos until recently.

The nib is a rather nice "stub flexy" which is very juicy and soft. Certainly not a CI (the horizontal line is not too thin) but it's very pleasant to use. The bronze trim fits well with the reddish ebonite.

As per como's request here are some photos

 

large.578193920_P1200420-3SantiniLibraCumberlandBronze.jpg.f4fa749b964742537dca6269ef933fac.jpg

 

large.1692569435_P1200422-3SantiniLibraCumberlandBronze.jpg.1570f80d53b59a2a5e755af7d617b1af.jpg

 

large.2137840488_P1200424-3SantiniLibraCumberlandBronze.jpg.da4413733cc447e3453a51851ceb54c8.jpg

 

large.405319441_P1200426-3SantiniLibraCumberlandBronze.jpg.e6f3ecbab313cf6c2e65a859cf4a58b7.jpg

 

large.1194325472_P1200427-3SantiniLibraCumberlandBronze.jpg.8abf0d700c763f11f7f17e5a9e847877.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

 

First time hearing this. Santini ground an 18k super-flex 0.6 CI for me. I'm very happy with it.

Anabelle Hiller ground my 18k M1005 nib to a crisp 0.5 CI, and I'm happy with that as well.

On several occasions I have approached nibmeisters at the Boston pen shows and asked about working on 18K nibs to enhance flexibility (primarily) and other mods. I was told that because of the "softer-ness" of the 18K gold it was not advised and that they were not interested in the work. It seems that the softer gold is more likely to "spring" and not return to its original shape.

 

One other thought as well... although the 18K nib on the M1000 has a certain degree of softness and offers some line variation due to its size grinding it to a CI (what size nib was it to start?) may not be the same as working with the Santini super-flex nib.

 

Simply repeating what I recall being told. If it's been done and it works for you that's great.

 

Also, IIRC I suggested checking with MM first to make sure he would, in fact, do the work.

 

Either way, go or no go in regard to the mods, congratulations on getting the Santini. It's definitely on my future's list (also with the Super-flex nib.

 

When you get it please consider a full review here on FPN.

 

Thank you.

“Don't put off till tomorrow what you can do today, because if you do it today and like it, you can do again tomorrow!”

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4 hours ago, Gloucesterman said:

On several occasions I have approached nibmeisters at the Boston pen shows and asked about working on 18K nibs to enhance flexibility (primarily) and other mods. I was told that because of the "softer-ness" of the 18K gold it was not advised and that they were not interested in the work. It seems that the softer gold is more likely to "spring" and not return to its original shape.

 

One other thought as well... although the 18K nib on the M1000 has a certain degree of softness and offers some line variation due to its size grinding it to a CI (what size nib was it to start?) may not be the same as working with the Santini super-flex nib.

 

Simply repeating what I recall being told. If it's been done and it works for you that's great.

 

 

  

 

Adding flex has little to nothing to do with modifying the tipping.  To add flex,  nibmeisters make nibs thinner, add cutouts and/or narrow the tines.  These modifications change nib geometry, but do not necessarily require modifying the tipping.

 

Grinding an italic involves modifying the tipping, but does not involve modifying nib geometry.   It is a very different operation than adding flex.  It’s much simpler.  Having done a few italics myself, i can tell you that nib material is mostly irrelevant.  It’s the same operation whether it’s 18k, 14k or steel.  Any nibmeister worthy  of the name can grind an italic on an 18k nib.

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8 hours ago, gyasko said:

 

  

 

Adding flex has little to nothing to do with modifying the tipping.  To add flex,  nibmeisters make nibs thinner, add cutouts and/or narrow the tines.  These modifications change nib geometry, but do not necessarily require modifying the tipping.

 

Grinding an italic involves modifying the tipping, but does not involve modifying nib geometry.   It is a very different operation than adding flex.  It’s much simpler.  Having done a few italics myself, i can tell you that nib material is mostly irrelevant.  It’s the same operation whether it’s 18k, 14k or steel.  Any nibmeister worthy  of the name can grind an italic on an 18k nib.

Then I stand corrected, updated and better informed.

Thank you...

“Don't put off till tomorrow what you can do today, because if you do it today and like it, you can do again tomorrow!”

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17 hours ago, sansenri said:

...My Libra in Cumberland ebonite and bronze trim arrived as scheduled end of last month but I had not yet had time to take some photos until recently.

The nib is a rather nice "stub flexy"...

As per como's request here are some photos

 

large.2137840488_P1200424-3SantiniLibraCumberlandBronze.jpg.da4413733cc447e3453a51851ceb54c8.jpg

 

large.405319441_P1200426-3SantiniLibraCumberlandBronze.jpg.e6f3ecbab313cf6c2e65a859cf4a58b7.jpg

 

@sansenri Thank you for posting these photos. Very nice pen, and nib too!! The nib sounds similar to mine, an M Stub Flexy (M Flexy ground to smooth stub with juicy flow). I have the Nonagon Antique Rose finish. When I first got it end of last year, I thought the colours were a bit muted compared to the photos on their site, but I have since grown to really like the finish. It has a vintage/antique look. Cumberland ebonite has this sort of look too, even more vintage as this ebonite finish was used most often outside the black ones among vintage ebonite pens. Congratulations and enjoy your new pen!

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thank you, yes, the Cumberland ebonite does look and feel "classic", the bronze finish (vaguely similar to rose gold look) gives it a less blingy and more subtle look, which I do like.

I am really curious for the other Santinis in ebonite, I initially went for the Libra due to more affordable pricing, but the Nonagon does look attractive, and given the positive experience may be interesting for a next purchase. Several of the ebonite variants on offer look rather nice and I'm in difficulty to choose (the Libra Cumberland was not an easy choice, the bronze finish made me make up my mind).

I'll take a break to enjoy the Libra in the meantime... :)

 

btw, the Michelangelo looks very Omas Arte Italiana, which appeals quite a lot to me.

Was there a specific reason for you to choose the Nonagon vs the Michelangelo?
Did you compare them for size?

(begging pardon for the OT!)

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@sansenri I think the Libra ebonite is a good choice for quality/price (of course I am saying that because I love ebonite as pen material, second to celluloid). I can imagine that for you, Libra might even be better than Nonagon, because the section is more flush. The Nonagon section has a slight step, but it's rather well done and not pronounced. I think Santini's ebonite is their strength, very attractive. I had not seen any pen makers bringing on so many ebonite finishes. They are rejuvenating an ancient material (as far as pen manufacturing is concerned), very cool.

 

You are quite right about the Michelangelo facetted model, very Omas like. At the time of my ordering, Santini only had this model in Eagle Wing and Black Diamond (black acrylic). I was very tempted to get my Antique Rose in Bronze clip (like yours) and Greek key cap band, so essentially Michelangelo in Antique Rose. I backed out of that idea because I would have to rely on my imagination how this combination would look for me, and I had to pay probably some substantial surcharge for the customisation. In the end I decided that I would happily take their design of the current Antique Rose, because it's very Santini. You know my favourite modern pen model is the Omas Paragon, so in a way I don't want to challenge my favourite pen design 😀. Between Omas old style Paragon and Santini Michelangelo, I would say that the Paragon is more elegant, and Michelangelo (and Nonagon) is more bold, both very nice. There is something to be said about holding a big substantial pen in hand (and at the same time not terribly heavy!).

 

Nonagon is just a little bigger and heavier than Libra. It feels big in hand. I like both the Libra and Nonagon (and I am sure Michelangelo too). They feel good in hand and write well. At this price range, they are good value.

 

Here is a photo of my Libra and Nonagon with some other pens that you are familiar with (I think you are familiar with ALL pen models 😀), for comparison. I also beg for forgiveness for getting off the topic to OP and moderator. I hope the photo might be helpful to others. Please feel free to delete, not offended.

large.132397340_StipulaNonagonLibracompare.jpeg.3a44337dc22bd155473f8551db17718f.jpeg

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