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Ebonite vs. Acrylic Resin in Santini pens



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Mysterious Mose

(cross-posted) in Fountain Pen Geeks forum)

 

Santini pens with Flexy nibs must have ebonite feeds. Some of the pens I'm looking at are made of acrylic resin and others are ebonite. The former cost 259 euros and the latter cost 359 euros.
 

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? What do you get for 100 euros more when you get an ebonite pen?
 

Examples of Ebonites are Libra Blackberry, Mora, Sand, Acqua, Cumberland, Ginger, Ethiopia and Lava. Examples of Acrylic Resins are Libra Black, Nut, Lord, Etna, Grape, Laurel, Diamod Blue, Lavender, Royal Blue, and Red.

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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Karmachanic

I very happy with the acrylic Libra. I enjoy the weight, size, and lovely long section. I'd also be happy with an Ebonite version, but there's no way I'll pay an extra €100 for the pleasure.  My ringless, Bock threaded, Ebonite, ASA Maya, with a Ti nib will suffice.

 

The warm, organic feel of Ebonite is, for me, its "advantage."

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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mizgeorge

Completely agree with above - I very much enjoy the hand feel of ebonite, but I'm not prepared to pay a huge premium for it. I'm also very happy with my Indian ebonite pens, which are handmade for a fraction of the price. 

 

I'm eyeing up Libras at the moment, and will be getting an acrylic. Some of the ebonite versions are beautiful, but not that much more beautiful. 

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christam

You probably already know this but the acrylic resin Libras ordered with a flexy nib will also be fitted with an ebonite feed.  The additional cost for flexy/ebonite is 15 euros which TBH seems like a bargain.  I've got a Capri on the way, fitted with a flexy CI nib - that's an additional 20 euros and I'm assuming will also include the ebonite feed (the website isn't clear on that and I didn't think to clarify before ordering).

 

I've also ordered an ebonite Nonagon which will be my first all-ebonite pen and I'm looking forward to discovering how it feels in the hand.

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Mysterious Mose
7 hours ago, christam said:

You probably already know this but the acrylic resin Libras ordered with a flexy nib will also be fitted with an ebonite feed.  The additional cost for flexy/ebonite is 15 euros which TBH seems like a bargain.  I've got a Capri on the way, fitted with a flexy CI nib - that's an additional 20 euros and I'm assuming will also include the ebonite feed (the website isn't clear on that and I didn't think to clarify before ordering).

 

I've also ordered an ebonite Nonagon which will be my first all-ebonite pen and I'm looking forward to discovering how it feels in the hand.

What is a flexy CI nib?  Why is that an additional 20 euros?  Isn't a flexy nib 15 euros?  Anyway, you should have a receipt which breaks down the cost.

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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Mysterious Mose
8 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

I very happy with the acrylic Libra. I enjoy the weight, size, and lovely long section. I'd also be happy with an Ebonite version, but there's no way I'll pay an extra €100 for the pleasure.  My ringless, Bock threaded, Ebonite, ASA Maya, with a Ti nib will suffice.

 

The warm, organic feel of Ebonite is, for me, its "advantage."

Which acrylic Libra do you have?

 

What is a "ringless, Bock threaded, Ebonite, ASA Maya, with a Ti nib" ?

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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A Smug Dill
10 minutes ago, Mysterious Mose said:

Why is that an additional 20 euros?  Isn't a flexy nib 15 euros?

 

Who cares? The asking price of a non-essential consumer good is not something that requires justification, analytically or otherwise, either by the retailer supplier or by fellow shoppers to the prospective purchaser. There's nothing wrong with insisting on a rationale for your spending, but that's your rationale and your spending, irrespective of how well-founded or misguided that may be. If you don't feel you want to spend the €20, then the last thing we'd want is to change your mind on the basis of you may actually become more satisfied with such a commercial exchange should you decide to proceed.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Mysterious Mose
22 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Who cares? The asking price of a non-essential consumer good is not something that requires justification, analytically or otherwise, either by the retailer supplier or by fellow shoppers to the prospective purchaser. There's nothing wrong with insisting on a rationale for your spending, but that's your rationale and your spending, irrespective of how well-founded or misguided that may be. If you don't feel you want to spend the €20, then the last thing we'd want is to change your mind on the basis of you may actually become more satisfied with such a commercial exchange should you decide to proceed.

Wait a minute!  There's no need for antagonism.

 

I'm trying to understand your post.  

 

What is a "flexy CI nib?"  Is it an additional 35 euros or 15 euros or 20 euros?

 

As a matter of fact, I care and think others would, also.  I'm not indifferent to costs.  I might be willing to pay that additional amount, but I'd like to know how much it is and what it is for.

 

This reminds me of a case when I worked for the courts.  The defendant was charged with sale of 2 valium pills.  While waiting around for the trial to start, his attorney explained that the prosecution had offered him 60 days in jail if he pled guilty.  He declined and was now facing a jury trial.  Conviction would lead to a sentence of something like 2 years.  The attorney asked him "they offered you 60 days and now you face 2 years.  Isn't that right?  To which the defendant replied "60 days, 2 years, who cares?"  I care.  

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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christam

A flexy CI nib is a flexy cursive italic and the €20 I mentioned is in addition to the base cost of €259, so a total of €279 for the pen with a specially ground nib. And, I hope, with an ebonite feed 😊

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A Smug Dill
32 minutes ago, Mysterious Mose said:

I'm trying to understand your post.  

 

What is a "flexy CI nib?"

 

large.63083601_NiboptionsfortheSantiniItaliaLibraMora.jpg.5b5ccb8c1d6bfce9ca486261db11c738.jpg

(link to the nib size guide embedded)

Source: Santini Italia

 

32 minutes ago, Mysterious Mose said:

Is it an additional 35 euros or 15 euros or 20 euros?

 

That has nothing to do with what the nib “is”, either physically or functionally. Your (marginal or effective) cost of acquisition of such a nib, which may or may not depend on the pen model you selected, is no other hobbyist's business. Furthermore, you can go to Santini Italia's web site, play around with adding different pens and different options, and get the data easily and readily, as part of your due diligence as a shopper. There is no need to burden anyone else with providing you that filtered information when you can just expend your own effort.

 

32 minutes ago, Mysterious Mose said:

As a matter of fact, I care and think others would, also.

 

If you care about what the nib is, go read the nib size guide.

 

If you care about your cost of acquisition, go find out.

 

32 minutes ago, Mysterious Mose said:

I'm not indifferent to costs.  I might be willing to pay that additional amount, but I'd like to know how much it is and what it is for.

 

So decide for yourself, like other shoppers would.

 

The more you “care”, and the more careful you want your purchasing decisions to be, the more time and effort you can expect to spend upfront in digging for information — preferably directly from authoritative sources, such as the manufacturer's or retailer's published material — whether or not you end up buying the pen or feel you've benefitted from the investment in due diligence.

 

I despise it when lazy consumers just sit back and try to crowd-source due diligence and business analysis for their purchasing decisions, and offload the effort to others who don't benefit from those consumers buying “smarter” or “better”, especially when they unabashedly cross-post to multiple sites, forum sections and/or discussion threads in order to get more “eyeballs”. I'm more than happy to point people to sources of information, so they can do their own digging, make their own decisions and perhaps their own mistakes, so that they learn from those and do better with the next lot of out-of-pocket spending.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Mysterious Mose

Correction.  I was trying to understand Christam's post, not A Smug Dill's.

 

If I posted that "I got a fantastic deal on a very very special Montblanc pen -- only $20,000.00," it wouldn't be unusual for someone to ask for specifics.

 

BTW, it's my understanding that an ebonite feed on an acrylic resin pen is 10 euros extra, not 15.  That's what it was last summer.

 

As the OP, I can say that this thread is about the differences between acrylic resin and ebonite.  I initially posted this thread in FPGeeks.  Someone suggested that I might get more information from the FPNetwork because it has a strong following of Italian pens and especially Santini's.

 

A Smug Dill -- sorry to have pushed your buttons.  Anyway, same to you.

 

 

Dan Kalish

 

Fountain Pens: Pelikan Souveran M805, Santini Libra Cumberland, Waterman Expert II, Waterman Phileas, Waterman Kultur, Stipula Splash, Sheaffer Sagaris, Sheaffer Prelude, Osmiroid 65, FPR Guru

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Karmachanic
9 hours ago, Mysterious Mose said:

Which acrylic Libra do you have?

 

What is a "ringless, Bock threaded, Ebonite, ASA Maya, with a Ti nib" ?

 

Libra Lord

 

ASA is an Indian pen maker, and Maya is one of their models. I asked for it to be made with a Bock threaded section to accommodate a Bock housing with a titanium nib already in my possession. I also asked for no rings on the cap.

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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Both my Santinis are ebonite (a Nonagon and a Libra). Overall I prefer ebonite (and celluloid) over acrylic. Ebonite and celluloid are warm to the touch and feel softer than acrylic. Ebonite colors are more muted than acrylic but I like the looks. Ebonite and celluloid are more expensive than acrylic in general.

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Karmachanic
2 hours ago, como said:

Ebonite and celluloid are more expensive than acrylic in general.

 

If modern Ebonite is more expensive how is it that I can purchase an Ebonite pen for £40 > 120?

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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8 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

 

If modern Ebonite is more expensive how is it that I can purchase an Ebonite pen for £40 > 120?

Ah, I wasn't being clear enough. I was talking about the prices of celluloid, ebonite and acrylic pens, not the prices of these materials. I would imagine that underlying materials follow this order in general. I did notice that some Indian made ebonite pens are offered at very attractive prices. That's mostly due to labor cost, plus simpler design elements etc. I don't remember the name of the recent Ranga pen, but it was a group buy and rather cool looking!

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Karmachanic

I too am talking about the pen price. I'm not convinced that the €100 Santini premium for an Ebonite pen is justified by the cost of the raw material.

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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24 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

I too am talking about the pen price. I'm not convinced that the €100 Santini premium for an Ebonite pen is justified by the cost of the raw material.

I think the premium is on both ebonite in general and Santini's specific (and perhaps proprietary) ebonite mix. Whether it's justified is up to each individual's preference. When I compare Santini's products to other current Italian makes, they seem to be rather competitively priced.

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Newton Pens

Ebonite costs a LOT more than acrylics.  GOOD ebonite costs A LOT more than that.  German ebonite is the most expensive you can find, then close in price but a little cheaper is Japanese, then a lot lot cheaper is Indian.  Then you have the time it takes to finish the material once it's turned.  Acrylic is easier and quicker to finish than ebonite.  So the price difference based on material is because of those 2 things.


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sansenri

thanks Shawn, and if I may also point out you usually do note the difference in the ebonite, the high quality being very smooth and the lower quality being sort of coarser. The colours also differ, from murkier to high contrast.  Then of course there is a big difference in cost of production India vs Japan or Germany. As como says it's a matter of choice, I do own several Ranga pens in ebonite (and recently one of yours, Shawn! the grey blue was sent over by my sister!), but I am also currently considering a Santini Libra in ebonite.

Ref. the nibs, I understand that the standard sizes flexy nibs cost extra 15 euro while the flexy CI and the Architect cost 20 euro extra.

I have to assume that accounts for the extra needed grinding, which would sound fair.

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Karmachanic

Thank you Shawn. Thankfully I'm satisfied with Indian matte Ebonite.

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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