I've done a lot of searching but I need help. - Paper.

[Mar_]

I've been glancing all over amazon and other sites but I want to find a notebook of sorts with A LOT of paper and I mean A LOT... but close to 20 dollars. 

I don't want to risk bleed, ghosting, feathering. 

Im exhausted from looking, so I came here, any ideas? 

[arcfide]

What does a lot of paper mean? What size of notebook both in sheet size and in page count?

 

 

[Mar_]

1 hour ago, arcfide said:

What does a lot of paper mean? What size of notebook both in sheet size and in page count?

 

 

I'm looking for the same size or larger than A5
And a high page count. I'm trying to find something that has around 200+ sheets (400 pages ) or near. I liked the 3 spirals when I got them but they ghosted a bit more than I'd like.

I'm considering buying a couple leatherbounds if I find some that are decent enough too.

(yes im being cheap, but trying to find the best for as little as I can)

[arcfide]

I don't think you're going to find exactly what you are looking for. Good paper is just more expensive, especially if you want to avoid ghosting (rather than bleed or feather). 

 

If you like spiral notebooks, the Oxford Campus spiral notebooks have 140 pages and contain Optik paper, which is fountain pen friendly. Looks like there are also some other variants that include the Optik paper at 200 sheet counts. That's what I would try first. 

 

Apica's B5 6A-100 notebook has 100 sheets for $8 or so, and that's one of the most affordable notebooks I know of with confirmed fountain-pen friendly paper at that price. Kokuyo also makes a 100 sheet notebook that comes in around $12. Tsubame Notes are available in 100 sheet count sizes for around $12 as well, but the 200 sheet count notebooks that they make, which would meet your goals, will be more than $20 and they are hard to find in the U.S. I do see some listed on Amazon, though I do not know the sellers. These are probably some of the best quality paper you will find. Price per sheet Tsubame is also one of the most affordable outside of Apica. 

 

You can look at the Stalogy and Tomoe River notebooks, as well as the Midori MD diaries, but all of those will exceed your $20 limit, and they will all have high ghosting. However, they have great paper. 

 

There are a few other makers like Clairefontaine and Leuchtterm1917 that make great notebooks, but they are not going to meet your sheet count requirements at any of the places I'm familiar with. There are other Tomoe River based notebooks from makers like Elia and Nanami that make great notebooks with the paper, but the paper is high-ghosting paper. 

 

The exceed bullet journal has 120 pages, which might be an option, they're also among the more affordable options. 

 

The Yoseka notebook also has a high page count. 

 

In short, I don't think you're going to find what you want. If you want a single bound notebook that is affordable, large, fountain pen friendly (consistently), *and* doesn't have any ghosting, you're asking for more than I'm aware exists right now. 

 

If you're willing to live in the 100 - 200 sheet range, pay a little more, and pay less attention to ghosting, then you're golden. If you're willing to do away with the anti-ghosting requirement entirely, and pay a pretty penny, then you can get the TR paper that is among the most renowned for it's fountain-pen friendly qualities. However, I consider such notebooks ill-suited for fast paced projects, given the long dry times. If that doesn't matter to you or you have blotting paper, then all is well.

 

If it were me, what I would look into doing is picking up some of the Southworth 25% cotton writing paper that is readily and cheaply available in large reams, and learn how to bind my own notebooks. That way you'll be getting the best price per sheet and you'll be getting good quality paper to go with it. Any of the other Southworth competitors would also work, such as Strathmore. 

[TitoThePencilPimp]

The only other option is try the maruman spiral notebooks.. They are about $20-25$ on Amazon for a pack of 5. Ghosting was not an issue for me, but I mainly use xf to f nibs. Moreover, I also use "friendly" inks. The Nanami would probably be an option for large page count. But I find it to not be great, if you want to write on both sides. The higher gsm Tomoe River is much better in this regards. One of my favorite papers. 

 

Also look out for b grade notebooks on ETSY. A good way to buy a notebook for a lower cost. I usually buy Tarako B grade stock out....

[Karmachanic]

21 minutes ago, TitoThePencilPimp said:

Also look out for b grade notebooks on ETSY. A good way to buy a notebook for a lower cost. I usually buy Tarako B grade stock out....

 

 

My understanding is that shipping from Taiwan is locked down at present.

 

to add: Just checked; shipping to Taiwan Thailand and US only

[tde44x]

The desire for paper selection, size, and page count is why I just went with a disc bound system. I have some notebooks with HP24 paper and some with HP32 paper, both of which meet my particular needs.

[arcfide]

11 hours ago, tde44x said:

The desire for paper selection, size, and page count is why I just went with a disc bound system. I have some notebooks with HP24 paper and some with HP32 paper, both of which meet my particular needs.

 

There are some very nice leather bound ring/disc systems that can be refilled with inexpensive paper, and that might be the most affordable option long term, along with the chance to pick from among your favorite loose leaf paper. 

[A Smug Dill]

On 3/25/2021 at 4:21 PM, Mar_ said:

I don't want to risk bleed, ghosting, feathering. 

 

If what you're saying is that it is a critical requirement that the selected paper will exhibit no bleed-through, no ghosting and no feathering, then the simplest and most practical answer is for you not to use fountain pens and water-soluble inks to write on it.

 

You are not going to get any guarantees, no matter which paper you choose and how “fountain pen friendly” it is advertised to be, that there will be no bleed-through, no ghosting and no feathering, especially if you do not also limit yourself to an explicit, short list of inks to use. Without guarantees — and, frankly, even if guarantees are given — there is inherent risk, which you don't want, but also cannot avoid if you insist on proceeding.

 

Not even Tomoe River is guaranteed not to exhibit feathering and bleed-through with whichever ink someone randomly throws at it, so to speak.

 

Ghosting, or show-through, is less likely with thick, heavy and/or dense paper. Not only does that put many ≤70gsm Japanese papers reputed to be “fountain pen friendly” in disfavour, but thicker/denser paper of a particular make and type will tend to be more expensive.

 

Bleed-through and feathering are less likely with coated paper; but an effective coating may also increase drying time of ink marks on them, and thus the likelihood of smudging what you wrote or drew on the paper. Furthermore, the coating could be inadvertently compromised by skin oils, sweat and other substances that come into contact with certain areas on the paper before you get to them with your writing; and, in rare cases, the solvent in a particular ink may react with a particular type of coating. In such cases, you would “risk” seeing as much feathering, or perhaps an even higher degree of such, as you would on uncoated paper.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 4:21 PM, Mar_ said:

I want to find a notebook of sorts with A LOT of paper and I mean A LOT... but close to 20 dollars.

 

The inherent problem there is that paper is a relatively heavy product, and “A LOT of paper” is very heavy, but you probably also don't want to spend A LOT on top of the product price for shipping.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 6:09 PM, Mar_ said:

yes im being cheap, but trying to find the best for as little as I can

 

I think there's nothing wrong with being cheap. It's trying to get “the best”, in conjunction with being cheap, that will make it frustrating and time-consuming for yourself; if you're not spending money loosely, then the least you can expect is having to spend a lot of time and effort instead in research (cf. your being exhausted) and also taking/accepting some risks. Being a smart, budget-conscious shopper is not inherently or meant to be easy, notwithstanding the Internets being ‘a thing’ in this era.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 6:09 PM, Mar_ said:

I'm looking for the same size or larger than A5
And a high page count. I'm trying to find something that has around 200+ sheets (400 pages ) or near.

 

Your best bet is to find some 2021 day-to-a-page diaries that few people will want to buy now for that purpose, and of which retailers just want to get rid at a small fraction of the original price and clear out quickly. After all, you're only after the paper, not specifically the particular type of guide markings and/or printed features that either aid or distract from your writing. I bought a bunch of such products by Paperblanks, Studio Milligram, etc. in 2020 and 2021 for a few Aussie pesos apiece. Right now, US$20 could buy >2,000 A5 pages (i.e. five 432-page spiral-bound books) of Studio Milligram “80gsm Taiwanese milled Milligram Maple Paper with uncoated surface” that is pretty decent for fountain pen writing, excluding shipping/delivery charges, from Milligram Outlet in Australia.

 

I suggest you look for something similar in the US, but also be prepared to compromise on the risk factor. Also, if you're prepared to limit yourself to certain inks that are less apt to feather and bleed on even lower-quality paper, that may help your quest.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by A Smug Dill
… but it's all gone now / It must've been good …

[Karmachanic]

6 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Bleed-through and feathering are less likely with coated paper

 

For clarity. Writing paper is not coated.

Coated paper - magazines and brochures. Non-absorbent.

Writing paper is "sized". Absorbent.

Original Crown Mill Cotton - least sizing.  TR - more sizing.  Clairefontaine - most sizing

 

 

[arcfide]

18 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

 

For clarity. Writing paper is not coated.

Coated paper - magazines and brochures. Non-absorbent.

Writing paper is "sized". Absorbent.

Original Crown Mill Cotton - least sizing.  TR - more sizing.  Clairefontaine - most sizing

 

 

 

I believe there's also a difference between "surface sizing" and filler sizing, at least based on what I was reading. My understanding is that some papers are more heavily surface sized than other papers, and that can lead to a different feel. I'm not sure if those terms are right. I believe the general trend is a much increased sizing with regards to fillers, as it enables less pulp content, which is more affordable, less burdensome on forests and fields, and allows for the paper to be tweaked for better ink handling properties without requiring heavy paper weights. 

[Karmachanic]

Not that I've done any in-depth study. At one point, quite some time ago, I looked briefly into handmade paper making. I'm familiar with the terms 'surface" and "interior", where in the latter, the sizing is added to the slurry. Filler, in my understanding, refers to insoluble mineral substances, both natural and synthetic; e.g  chalk or talc for instance. I can see how the fact that they are insoluble would  give rise to the term 'filler sizing",  which I had not heard before.

[Geslina]

These aren’t the best photos but I love these Nuuna Notebooks.  256 pages, backs of pages usable because there is essentially NO bleed through on this thick, sturdy paper.  It’s not coated, but the majority of inks do not feather.  Has a very slight tooth, which I find pleasing to write on.  Faint dot grid, approx 3.5mm spacing. There are lots of interesting cover design options...mine is the moon one, obviously, design is on front and back.  Covers are made from recycled leather, and the design continues onto the binding which is pretty cool.  Supposedly this paper, and the journals, are made from recyclable, vegan materials, and in an environmentally friendly way.  Though how they can call it vegan when the covers are leather, I’m not sure.

 

I paid $42 on Amazon for the Moon notebook, but the prices vary depending on design, plenty in the $25 - $35 range.  Federalistpens.com here in the US sells this A5-ish size for around $30.   

[arcfide]

On 3/28/2021 at 5:06 AM, Karmachanic said:

Not that I've done any in-depth study. At one point, quite some time ago, I looked briefly into handmade paper making. I'm familiar with the terms 'surface" and "interior", where in the latter, the sizing is added to the slurry. Filler, in my understanding, refers to insoluble mineral substances, both natural and synthetic; e.g  chalk or talc for instance. I can see how the fact that they are insoluble would  give rise to the term 'filler sizing",  which I had not heard before.

 

I may not be using the right terms. I think maybe the right term is interior sizing or the like, will fillers being a broader term. The main thing that matters, in this case, I think, is the difference in effect you get from surface vs interior treatments to the paper pulp and manufacturing process. 

[OleJuul]

After the sheet comes off the web it is passed through the press section. This section is mainly a matter of economics, effecting the amount of steam (high energy expense) in the following drying section, but it also has an effect on the density and surface of the paper. The drying section has less effect as far as I know, but the next section (before reeling) is calendering. Here there is a great influence on the finished surface.

 

 

[Paul-in-SF]

You might be interested in Zequenz notebooks (from Thailand, I believe) on Amazon They make a B5 journal with 200 sheets/400 pages for $19.95, with a soft cover and rounded binding that lays flat at every page. They don't seem to publish anything technical about their paper except to call it "premium acid free" and that it is "70 gm" (not sure if they mean 70 gsm or something else). I can't swear to the absence of ghosting, but the rest should meet your needs (I have owned a couple but I graduated to A4 size before I had a chance to use them, so I gave them away).