Oldest continuously produced fountain pen models?

[arcfide]

What models of fountain pens have been in continuous production for the longest? I'm allowing for changes in general configuration and the like, provided that there is some strong degree of continuity of identity. From my research, it appears that most of the big Japanese standbys originated in the 80's. Lamy's 2000 starts in 1966. It looks like Montblanc's Meisterstuck brand was started in 1924, but that's a little generic for me. The 14x series appears to have been introduced from what I read in 1949 or thereabouts, with the 149 coming in 1952? From there we have the Parker Duofold in 1921. The Duofold looks to me like it has been in continuous production more or less, so it seems to me like that's the one that is the oldest at the moment, but does anyone have any other examples? Anything even older? It doesn't look like Sheaffer, Waterman, or Cross still make any of their old models. I'm sort of blind with regards to the Italian options. Looks like Pelikan has the M400 in 1950 and the Pelikano in 1960. 

[Jerome Tarshis]

The Duofold, as a particular pen, doesn't go back to the 1920s. As a name it was indeed introduced then, but Parker has used the name for a variety of different pens. Those different pens do not have much in common with one another.

 

Similarly, Aurora has used the name (or number?) 88 for one or another top of the line pen. But it isn't the same pen manufactured since the 1940s, it is just the same number applied to different pens. Usually one of the company's best; not the same pen model.

[arcfide]

I think the continuity is up to interpretation. For example, Perle Noire from Herbin is probably one of the oldest continuously produced inks under a single name, but it has undergone constant formula changes over the years. I still think it "counts" in some respects. I know the Duofold might be a little closer to the Meisterstuck name than the 149 name, but it does seem like the models generally had a common theme and line and I generally see some stylistic similarities as well. Just how different was one Duofold from another? I know the sizes and materials and colors changed, what else? Hasn't it always had a relatively similar profile/shape? 

 

I need to do some more research into the 88. 

 

When I think of brand/model continuity I don't really require, in my head, that the pens be the "same" right down to the parts lists, but more just that the general essence of the model be preserved in some meaningful way. Thus, for example, moving your flagship line of pens from hard rubber or celluloid to resin wouldn't qualify as a "model change" to me so much as a manufacturing evolution of the same model. 

 

It's like how I still consider Pilot's Blue Black ink to have a degree of continuity to it even though it was changed from IG to Cellulose Reactive decades ago. 

 

 

[Jerome Tarshis]

But the Duofold made in Great Britain, at Newhaven, hardly looks like either the American Duofolds of 1921 and later and the one made now. What's more, even the American Duofold line changed in general appearance. One might say that the Duofold of today echoes stylistic features of the earliest Duofold, but that wasn't continuous. We are now in an age of "retro." In between Original and Retro there were different-looking Duofolds. And my UK Duofolds look like generic fountain pens. People even make that complaint about them. No effort was made to suggest a continuity with the 1921 Duofold.

[Karmachanic]

2 hours ago, arcfide said:

Hasn't it always had a relatively similar profile/shape? 

 

 

No.

 

Found on the web

 

 

 

 

 

[bunnspecial]

I have a Duofold Centennial in my pocket now, and a hard rubber one from likely 1921 or 1922 on my desk. The overall profile and general look are the same, but that's where the similarities end. My early one is a button filler with a simple gold nib. My modern one is a C/C pen with a lot of elaborate decoration. There was a significant gap in production in there, and the 1989 re-introduction was more an homage to the original(albeit a very good one, and a luxury item at that) but obviously a different pen.

 

The MB 149 comes to my mind as an obvious contender. Since 1952, it has gone from celluloid to resin and had the piston mechanism modified a few times. There have been several other incremental changes(I won't call them improvements necessarily, as they all have their pluses and minuses) Still, though, a 2021 production 149 is pen with the same size, shape, giant #9 nib, and overall feel as a 1952 model. Folks have even had destroyed celluloid 149 nibs fitted to modern bodies by the factory. To an untrained eye, an early resin 149 is nearly identical to a modern one, and the only thing that might clue you off on celluloid is the yellow star.

[arcfide]

Okay, I think the argument against the Duofold is reasonably compelling, so that would put the 146 and 149 as the main contenders for the title. Other than the Lamy 2000 at 1966, does any other pen come close?

[silverlifter]

Kaweco Sport is from the same era: no longer a piston filler, but the form factor is identical.

 

See also:

 

 

 

 

 

[Ron Z]

Lots of pen companies have "reissued" a pen, but other than some similar design elements, they're an homage, not really the same pen.  The 51 of a couple of decades ago had more in common with the original than the thing that has just come out, and even then it was quite different  under the hood.

 

The one that is very much the same pen since it was introduced over 60 years ago is the Lamy 2000.  The basic design is the same, both in materials and function.  Some improvements under the hood, but the basic design is much the same.  A Pelikan 400 of today is much like the Pelikan of the 1950s and 60s.  

[mizgeorge]

19 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

A Pelikan 400 of today is much like the Pelikan of the 1950s and 60s

I think today's M101N is still very faithful to the old 101N's from the 30s, in terms of both form and function. 

[gyasko]

2 hours ago, Ron Z said:

Lots of pen companies have "reissued" a pen, but other than some similar design elements, they're an homage, not really the same pen.  The 51 of a couple of decades ago had more in common with the original than the thing that has just come out, and even then it was quite different  under the hood.

 

The one that is very much the same pen since it was introduced over 60 years ago is the Lamy 2000.  The basic design is the same, both in materials and function.  Some improvements under the hood, but the basic design is much the same.  A Pelikan 400 of today is much like the Pelikan of the 1950s and 60s.  

 

 

The Pelikan 400 had a gap in production between 1965 and the 1980s.  The MB 146 was also discontinued in the sixties and revived in the early 1970s.

[gyasko]

1 hour ago, mizgeorge said:

I think today's M101N is still very faithful to the old 101N's from the 30s, in terms of both form and function. 

 

The nibs don’t write the same or feel the same.   As long as you don’t care about that they are functionally equivalent.

[shalitha33]

not an easy question to answer:( 

How about short pens like pilot elite? 

Also older eyedroppers like waterman 12, 14 etc if near to almost all parts compatibility/ interchangeability  is taken in to account? (not the case for this question though)

[bunnspecial]

There again, it boils down to how picky you want to be...

 

If it's strictly name, I'm not sure if you can beat the Duofold even if a 2021 production one has almost nothing in common with a 1921 one, and you discount the ~20 year gap in name usage(from when the last English models petered out to when the first Centennials came in).

 

If you want continuous production and allow for several incremental changes along the way including such that the current product looks and functions essentially identical to the earliest ones(and allow for a change in the barrel material) but has no interchangeability other than nibs, I think the 149 fits the bill at right around 70 years old, give or take depending on who you ask.

 

The Lamy 2000 has not had a break in production since 1966, has always been made of the same material, and AFAIK parts like nibs and feeds are totally interchangeable. Still, though, there have been some small internal changes. The section got a complete redesign I think around 2010-look at one made before then and there's a smooth plastic area set into the stainless around the fill hole, while the current one is entirely stainless. From communicating with Lamy US service/Bob Nurin, the redesigned section is not interchangeable with the old body, so if you send a pre-2010 pen in for a cracked section(not uncommon) you get a new barrel and section. That's at least how I understood it-I have a pen with the old section that went in for a crack in ~2013 and came back with the old style section still, while I was told that if I sent it in again I'd get a new barrel.

 

If you want "take these two pens apart completely, mix up the pieces, and have them go back together perfectly regardless of which parts you use" you'd probably have to go to something relatively modern.

[arcfide]

Very interesting stuff! Thanks all for some fascinating reads and information. 

[sciumbasci]

As "the pen that has been produced the longest and hasn't radically changed"? 

 

My vote is for Lamy Safari or Parker Vector. 

[Manofadventure]

You should check out the other thread with this discussion here

The Ratnam and Ratnamson ebonite eye dropper pens have some models, which are essentially unchanged since they started pen making in 1932 in India. Similarly, Guider pens are also essentially unchanged in design. All these pens are made in Rajahmundry in India. 

[hari317]

Interchangeability of parts is not a very sound criterion. For example, take the Flattop duofold of the 20s and the streamlined that followed shortly after. You can't interchange most parts. The method of construction also differed, threaded sections vs slip fit for one.

 

Unbroken and continuous use of the model name can be a criteria for this discussion and in that the 149 has to be the longest in production model followed by the Lamy 2000.

 

 

 

[Ron Z]

Any pen in production for more than a few years will have some changes in design over it's production life.  Take the Duofold.  First hard rubber with no cap band, then adding a band, then celluloid, flat band, raised band, change in imprint, triple bands on the deluxe models, changes in color, changes in profile to the "streamlined" models, changes in pressure bar, slip fit section VS threaded.  But they were all Doufolds, in continuous production.   The 40s Duofold was a Duofold in name, but not in style.

[arcfide]

14 hours ago, Manofadventure said:

You should check out the other thread with this discussion here

The Ratnam and Ratnamson ebonite eye dropper pens have some models, which are essentially unchanged since they started pen making in 1932 in India. Similarly, Guider pens are also essentially unchanged in design. All these pens are made in Rajahmundry in India. 

 

Very neat!