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Tines Spread Too Far on Antique Waterman Ideal 514



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theodore94

I have a Waterman 514 that looks just like this (https://www.vintagepens.com/morepics.php?id=14389&pics=11) but with a solid 14kt clip. I bought it off eBay a few years ago. It's probably my favorite pen in my collection from an aesthetics perspective, but I don't know very much about it, and I've never actually used it -- I'm a little too nervous to fill an eyedropper.

 

I tried just dipping it in ink to see what the nib feels like. I see that the nib tines split too far, creating two very faint parallel lines and not really passing any ink through. Does anyone know what I'd have to do to get it back into working condition? What kind of servicing would this require, and would I need to find a specialist to do it?

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  • theodore94 changed the title to Tines Spread Too Far on Antique Waterman Ideal 514
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mizgeorge

It's likely to be a very flexible nib, and it's possible that you're putting too much pressure on it if it's railroading that badly - have you tried just the lightest of lines with literally no downward pressure at all? 

 

Can you share a picture of the nib as it is at the moment?

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theodore94

I will share more in the morning, when there is enough light to take a decent picture. Just to give you a sense, this is vaguely what it looks like pressed against the paper.

 

 

Would you like to see it not pressed against the paper, as well?

 

 

image_55415491.JPG

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theodore94

UPDATE: I just tried barely pressing against the paper, and it does seem to work much better! Do you have any idea how to fill it? I know it's an "eyedropper", and the section comes off the barrel... do I buy an eyedropper to drop ink into the barrel? Can I use a syringe (which I use to refill cartridges)?

 

Thanks!!

 

 

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shalitha33

simply unscrew the section and fill the barrel with either a syringe or an eyedropper. Anything that allow you to put in ink to the barrel without spilling out will do.

don't put too much pressure when writing with vintage nibs, they really don't need much pressure to open up.

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mizgeorge
7 hours ago, shalitha33 said:

simply unscrew the section and fill the barrel with either a syringe or an eyedropper. Anything that allow you to put in ink to the barrel without spilling out will do.

don't put too much pressure when writing with vintage nibs, they really don't need much pressure to open up.

One of the biggest problems people have with vintage nibs, especially if they are unused to them, is just how little pressure they need. They are from an age where ballpoints and rollerballs didn't exist, and only a very light hand was necessary to write with them. Don't look at videos of people pressing down on nibs trying to get ultra wide lines, just write, very lightly, and let the nib do everything for you. They can be incredibly rewarding once you get used to them, but overdoing it risks springing, and ruining the nib. 

 

These are absolutely beautiful pens, and can give a writing experience almost like no other. 

 

Do watch out for the odd ink burp - it can happen with eyedroppers, especially when they're not full enough ;)

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Looks like the nib is inserted too far.  Note that the feed and nib both have a broader area (rear) and a tapering area.  The tapering area of the nib should lie approximately even with the tapering area of the feed.  If the nib is further back, the shoulders of the feed can force the tines apart.  Looks like your nib needs to come forward a few mm.  Ideally, the size number should be visible just in front of the section barrel.  Sadly, the section barrel of many vintage pens is worn and it is common to see nibs forced quite far in to minimize leaking.  A solution (sometimes) is to take the nib and feed out and "reset" the feed.  Better is to send the pen to someone who can fix or replace the section.

 

 

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theodore94

Hi Cunim,

 

Do you know anyone who can do that for me? Is it safe to try out the pen before I get that issue repaired?

 

Thanks!

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mizgeorge
26 minutes ago, cunim said:

Looks like the nib is inserted too far.  Note that the feed and nib both have a broader area (rear) and a tapering area.  The tapering area of the nib should lie approximately even with the tapering area of the feed.  If the nib is further back, the shoulders of the feed can force the tines apart.  Looks like your nib needs to come forward a few mm.  Ideally, the size number should be visible just in front of the section barrel.  Sadly, the section barrel of many vintage pens is worn and it is common to see nibs forced quite far in to minimize leaking.  A solution (sometimes) is to take the nib and feed out and "reset" the feed.  Better is to send the pen to someone who can fix or replace the section.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree. That nib is still being pressed against the paper, and whilst it's hard to tell if it's just a shadow, the feed looks like it's sitting about right. We'd need to see a picture from the back to be sure.

 

It's perfectly safe to use - but if the feed is mis-set, you could get some blobbing (technical term!). Dipping is completely safe if you just want to get a feel for how it writes. Remember, very, very light hand! Imaging you're using a fine paintbrush and want it to not bend when you touch it to the paper.

 

I won't make any recommendations because I'm not on the same continent as you are, and because these are the sort of jobs I'd want to do myself. 

 

 

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  • I'm not sure I agree. That nib is still being pressed against the paper, and whilst it's hard to tell if it's just a shadow, the feed looks like it's sitting about right. We'd need to see a picture from the back to be sure.

You may well be right that the feed is OK, and I may be confusing the shadow and feed areas in the slit between the tines. It is just my experience that a fully buried nib size number can indicate barrel wear and a nib that is inserted deeply to compensate. The resulting mismatch in feed and nib contact surfaces can spread the tines a bit.  Easy to check but I am not sure the OP is comfortable pulling bits out.

 

Sure Theodore94.  Write all you want.  If the pen has some value to you, check the repair topic on this site to see some restoration providers. 

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theodore94

Thanks for all your comments. So I’d use a syringe to put some Waterman Black ink in here? I just want to be 100% sure.

 

You are definitely correct that I’m not comfortable messing around with this pen. I love it and wouldn’t be able to forgive myself if I broke it!

 

If any other pictures/angles would help, let me know! 

73C36FE9-E873-4E9B-8788-21B9F7FC45FC.jpeg

27356F0D-0E2E-4AD9-990B-BB2DDE8604A0.jpeg

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shalitha33

Congrats :) its a really nice pen :).

Its likely too much pressure that causing the times to open too much given its closed when the pen is upright. I tend to keep the top of the feed aligned with the impression o the back of the nib, but thats just me . Im no expert in this matter . so best to wait for an expert reply. 

 

Edit: sorry didn't check the pics before typing this. was thinking it was the narrow pre-1900s feed :(

Edited by shalitha33
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shalitha33

you can use which ever method to put ink in. it wouldn't brake the pen.  be careful to not get any liquid outside the pen. 

 

If black hard rubber parts water or anything wet it can turn to a brown shade . You have rather nice black color still on your pen. so its best to keep outside of the pen dry.

Fill up to the start of threads inside the barrel max , allowing room for the part of the section that threads in. Try with only a little bit first to ensure there are no leaks etc.

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theodore94

I would probably use a syringe, which should be able to keep the rest of the pen dry. Is that where the ink goes -- directly into the barrel like pictured?

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shalitha33

Yap directly inside the barrel.I have used syringes, eye droppers or even other pens to put ink inside waterman eyedroppers. as long as you keep the outside dry they should be good to go. check to make sure here are no leaks using a little bit of inks or water first . so you don't make a mess if it leaks. they are old pens nearing or exceeding 100 years, so anything can happen.

 

also if you can try to flush the feed, clean the feed if it gives you any more trouble with ink supply. 

Is the number on the pen 0514 or 514? if its a 514 then thats a solid gold overlay.it will be a very valuable pen.

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shalitha33

threads on these are perfect cut. they don't need any types gaskets / washers / grease. they will / should seal up perfectly.

 

100 + years of use can change things though :(

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theodore94

Should I use any special cleaner to flush the feed? Should I use a bulb syringe like I do for more modern pens?

 

I will put some water in first to test for any leaks.

 

The number on the pen appears to be 514 (though it's not super clear... it could possibly be 0514). It is a solid gold overlay -- it says 14kt on the cap and on the clip (which I believe was added after production). I'll add a picture.

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shalitha33

A question for the experts :

I have a feeling that the no4 nib is slightly bent to make it look straight. will that have an impact ?

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