Quink inks

[inkstainedruth]

That does sound pretty pricy.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[bunnspecial]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:28 PM, corniche said:

Hi Bunn,

 

Here is where you're confusing modern inks with old school inks.  Noodlers uses cellulose reactive dyes to make their inks permanent on paper.  But the old school inks didn't contain these special dyes or they'd be permanent, too.

 

We're looking at this from the wrong direction. In the old days, ink makers didn't design special dyes to be permanent; in those days, it was the washable dyes that were special. Designed for all the "harried housewives" who had to deal with the clothes of ink-stained husbands and children- so they formulated special dyes that would wash out.

 

So, the "washable"/"permanent" designations were there so people knew what they'd be facing if they got it on 'em.

 

The permanent inks always had a deeper/richer color, and were preferred by those more interested in the aesthetic than safety... or a "happy homemaker."   

 

So, just to revisit this a bit, I've been playing a bit more with the fill I did of the old bottle of Permanant Blue I have.

 

I went back today and grabbed a page of A5 that I'd written a couple of days ago. In the margins of it, I made some marks with inks I know not to be permanent-modern Quink cartridges, Asa-Gao(it was in a 149) and Serenity Blue. I also had a Snorkel I was getting ready to clean that I'd filled with vintage Sheaffer Blue-Black, which I'm pretty sure is iron gall.

 

Then, of course, what else did I do but go to the kitchen sink and hit it with the sprayer.

 

Predicably, the Quink cartridge, Serenity Blue, and Asa-Gao all unleashed a torrent of blue water as I passed the sprayer over them. The Asa-Gao was actually somewhat legible after this(I didn't do an extended soak) while the others left traces that they'd been there but nowhere near legible other than an occasional letter. The Sheaffer Blue-Black also let go of a lot of blue ink, but it goes black within a few seconds of going down and I didn't see any change even though it did wash out the blue.

 

The Quink Permanent was the real surprise based on this discussion. The sprayer didn't seem to affect it at all, and I didn't see any dye "shedding." Even after the paper was soaked and then dried out, I couldn't see any different between the washed sample and fresh.

 

I made the mistake of not taking before photos, so I've prepared another "test" sheet that I intend to do the same to tomorrow and see how it fares.

[corniche]

Hi Bunn,

 

IIRC, this whole thing started with "erasable" inks, right? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

 

If the basis of this discussion was "erasable" inks; I'll gladly do a demo for you. We'll have to take for granted that Quink Washable Blue will disappear no matter what, so I won't waste my time or a clean pen to demonstrate it.

 

But i will demonstrate the erasability of Quink Permanent Blue. 

 

- Sean 

[bunnspecial]

You're right-we said "eraseable" and I was confusing that with "washing with water".

 

I'm going to have to get an ink eraser and try (not that I doubt you-just that I think it could be useful in its own right).

[TheRedBeard]

On 3/9/2021 at 12:38 AM, corniche said:

 

 

Hi Red, Mr. Rene, 

 

Don't let it spook you; I'm very fond of Diamine Marine and Sherwood - and I'm as sane and even-tempered as anybody I know. 

 

- Sean 

Hi Sean,

Eventually I have found a moment and filled one of my much-loved P51s (the Black one with M nib and  RG cap) with Sherwood Green and I can say that I really like that ink :)

 

 

[corniche]

1 hour ago, TheRedBeard said:

Hi Sean,

Eventually I have found a moment and filled one of my much-loved P51s (the Black one with M nib and  RG cap) with Sherwood Green and I can say that I really like that ink

 

 

 

Hi Red, 

 

I'm glad to hear it. 👍

 

I have become very fond of the color; its dark enough for most business use, (I use blue black for legal stuff), and it affords me some originality, too.

 

 

- Sean 

[TheRedBeard]

15 hours ago, corniche said:

 

Hi Red, 

 

I'm glad to hear it. 👍

 

I have become very fond of the color; its dark enough for most business use, (I use blue black for legal stuff), and it affords me some originality, too.

 

 

- Sean 

 

Thank you, Sean :)

 

While I don't like blue inks, you made me think about trying one like blue-black.

What blue-black do you use?

AFAIR, Parker had Quink blue-black in the past, or may be I'm wrong...

[Aysedasi]

On 3/7/2021 at 3:10 PM, TheRedBeard said:

 

 

However, while Waterman inks are not bad, I found their Green not "green" but "green-blueish".

 

 

It's quite an interesting ink.  I don't have another green like it.  I was given a bottle when I retired by a colleague who uses it all the time.  I quite like it but couldn't use it as a regular everyday ink.  

[bunnspecial]

On 3/12/2021 at 12:51 AM, corniche said:

Hi Bunn,

 

IIRC, this whole thing started with "erasable" inks, right? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

 

If the basis of this discussion was "erasable" inks; I'll gladly do a demo for you. We'll have to take for granted that Quink Washable Blue will disappear no matter what, so I won't waste my time or a clean pen to demonstrate it.

 

But i will demonstrate the erasability of Quink Permanent Blue. 

 

- Sean 

 

To revisit this a bit, and not that I doubted but I wanted to see for myself, I got my hands on a couple of the Pelikan Super Pirat(if I spelled that correctly) erasers. First of all, the whole "felt tipped marker" arrangement was not what I was expecting.

 

I know this is old news to those of you who have used them, but they are interesting to me to play with. I can only assume that they contain some sort of bleach that's selective toward blue dyes. I found that rather than using them like a pencil eraser, they're just as effective to use it sort of like a highlighter over what I want to erase and assuming it's an erasable ink you can watch it vanish.

 

I went through a notebook that contains a bunch of random scribbles and stream-of-conscious nonsense where I've tested pens/inks, most of which has a note of the exact combination on a passage, and tried it. Of course the classic washable blues, including Quink, Waterman, Montblanc and Pelikan work just as advertised. What's interesting to me is that a lot of the more saturated blues-including Penman Sapphire and Asa-Gao in my notebook I tried-will smear a bit but not actually go away. On at least one blue ink(it may have been MB Blue for BMW but don't hold me to that) the eraser turned it a greenish but still perfectly legible color. Some other non-blue colors also changed color. IG inks differed in how they reacted-the darker ones that go nearly black anyway didn't have a perceptible change, while I watched Pelikan blue-black, for example, lose any hint of blue it had and become almost a pure gray. What I can guess is that those inks contain "erasable" blue dyes that the eraser acts on, but leaves the others behind.

 

Of course that's also independent of waterfastness, which I suspect may have been the other perk of "permanent" inks. Again, my sample of Quink permanent Blue didn't wash out or really have any noticeable color change when wet. Many of the saturated blues I mentioned above may not be affected by the Eradicator, but they have little to no water resistance. Of course, there again, IG BB inks(I don't think even vintage Quink permanent BB is IG-the patent posted on it indicates other metal salts) can often be seen to shed blue under water with little to no effect on the written words.

 

Just some fun playing around for me that's probably not a surprise to any of you.

 

BTW, I have some vintage bottles of "Carter Ink Eraser." They are a two bottle set, and I haven't really looked at what they contain or how they work.

[Man O War]

On 3/8/2021 at 7:53 PM, corniche said:

 

 

 

Btw, the 149 & Asa Gao sounds like a great combination.  👍

 

 

- Sean 

Agree!  Worthy of a photo!!

 

[bunnspecial]

5 hours ago, Man O War said:

Agree!  Worthy of a photo!!

 

 

Sorry, not inked with that combo now. That particular pen has Scribe Indigo in it, while my other B 149 has Penman Sapphire in it(the Scribe is a tiny bit less saturated, but I could also attribute that to the Penman bottle I have being 20+ years old).

 

Still, though, Asa-Gao is a nice ink in the same general color range as these but a very nice ink on its own.

[Man O War]

12 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

 

Sorry, not inked with that combo now. That particular pen has Scribe Indigo in it, while my other B 149 has Penman Sapphire in it(the Scribe is a tiny bit less saturated, but I could also attribute that to the Penman bottle I have being 20+ years old).

 

Still, though, Asa-Gao is a nice ink in the same general color range as these but a very nice ink on its own.

Agree on Asa-Gao.  It was the ink I used during my tour in command of a destroyer.  

[welch]

Ancient history note: way back in the 1960s, we always carried Ink Eradicator. I don't remember who made it.

[corniche]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:19 AM, TheRedBeard said:

 

Thank you, Sean

 

While I don't like blue inks, you made me think about trying one like blue-black.

What blue-black do you use?

AFAIR, Parker had Quink blue-black in the past, or may be I'm wrong...

 

Hi Red,

 

I've lost track of this thread...

 

The blue-blacks I like are Waterman, Quink, Pilot and Diamine Blue-Black and Twilight. 

 

- Sean 

[corniche]

10 hours ago, welch said:

Ancient history note: way back in the 1960s, we always carried Ink Eradicator. I don't remember who made it.

 

Hi Welch, 

 

I remember a glass tube with a screw-off cap and a nylon "sponge" on the end; later to become a plastic tube, but I don't remember anything else about it - excepting the smell.

 

- Sean 

[corniche]

On 3/23/2021 at 11:50 PM, bunnspecial said:

 

To revisit this a bit, and not that I doubted but I wanted to see for myself, I got my hands on a couple of the Pelikan Super Pirat(if I spelled that correctly) erasers. First of all, the whole "felt tipped marker" arrangement was not what I was expecting.

 

I know this is old news to those of you who have used them, but they are interesting to me to play with. I can only assume that they contain some sort of bleach that's selective toward blue dyes. I found that rather than using them like a pencil eraser, they're just as effective to use it sort of like a highlighter over what I want to erase and assuming it's an erasable ink you can watch it vanish.

 

I went through a notebook that contains a bunch of random scribbles and stream-of-conscious nonsense where I've tested pens/inks, most of which has a note of the exact combination on a passage, and tried it. Of course the classic washable blues, including Quink, Waterman, Montblanc and Pelikan work just as advertised. What's interesting to me is that a lot of the more saturated blues-including Penman Sapphire and Asa-Gao in my notebook I tried-will smear a bit but not actually go away. On at least one blue ink(it may have been MB Blue for BMW but don't hold me to that) the eraser turned it a greenish but still perfectly legible color. Some other non-blue colors also changed color. IG inks differed in how they reacted-the darker ones that go nearly black anyway didn't have a perceptible change, while I watched Pelikan blue-black, for example, lose any hint of blue it had and become almost a pure gray. What I can guess is that those inks contain "erasable" blue dyes that the eraser acts on, but leaves the others behind.

 

Of course that's also independent of waterfastness, which I suspect may have been the other perk of "permanent" inks. Again, my sample of Quink permanent Blue didn't wash out or really have any noticeable color change when wet. Many of the saturated blues I mentioned above may not be affected by the Eradicator, but they have little to no water resistance. Of course, there again, IG BB inks(I don't think even vintage Quink permanent BB is IG-the patent posted on it indicates other metal salts) can often be seen to shed blue under water with little to no effect on the written words.

 

Just some fun playing around for me that's probably not a surprise to any of you.

 

BTW, I have some vintage bottles of "Carter Ink Eraser." They are a two bottle set, and I haven't really looked at what they contain or how they work.

 

Hi Bunn,

 

Did I read this right, that your Quink Permanent Blue was not erased by the Pirat pen??

 

- Sean 

[bunnspecial]

8 hours ago, corniche said:

 

Hi Bunn,

 

Did I read this right, that your Quink Permanent Blue was not erased by the Pirat pen??

 

- Sean 

 

That is correct-it is waterfast, but still perfectly erasable.

[welch]

21 hours ago, corniche said:

 

Hi Welch, 

 

I remember a glass tube with a screw-off cap and a nylon "sponge" on the end; later to become a plastic tube, but I don't remember anything else about it - excepting the smell.

 

- Sean 

 

Hi, Sean,

 

So I'm that much older than you are! We used the Ink Eradicator that had a glass tube attached to the metal cap. No sponge...there was a round glass ball at the end of the glass tube, all one piece. 

 

Oh, and my mother insisted that I use washable ink so I wouldn't ruin shirts or anything else. I liked Sheaffer ink, since the "topwell") held just enough ink to fill the squeeze converter on my Parker 45. I refilled every morning in the bathroom sink, and I could rinse my hands off without leaving ink in anything. Great thing about Parker's original squeeze converter: I could hold the bottle in my left hand and work the squeeze converter with my right hand. "Modern" piston converters demand that I put the bottle down and use both hands on the converter. 

[welch]

And for those worried about fading inks, I still have 8th grade essays written win Sheaffer Washable Black. Unchanged. Of course, they have been in a three-ring binder ever since, but that's all the special protection.

[Larry Barrieau]

I have, and use, these permanent Quinks from the 1940's (the bottles have those deco shoulders): Violet, Red, Green, Brown, Microfilm Black, Blue-Black, and Royal Blue.