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Very Wet, Very Smooth Writer



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Brother Tea

I am a university student in continental europe on a search for a very wet, very smooth writer. I want to have the feeling of writing on glass, and I don't want to have to worry about the ink flow, while I am feverishly taking notes during class. The paper is not the problem because I use Oxford 90 gsm paper. 

 

Does anyone have an idea how to make a feed bleed more? Can anyone recommend a reliable very smooth and very wet pen that I could ask for for my upcoming birthday in April? 

 

When I say very wet and very smooth, I think of my grandfather's Montblanc 149 with a F nib. This is however not my pen or a student pen. I also enjoy the writing experience of my mother's Pelikan M200 (1988-1997) with a B nib, however the piston mechanism doesn't work anymore and because it's the Old Style I don't know where to bring it to have it fixed. 

 

Last year, I was still able to use a Kaweco Sport with an EF nib, which is a smooth writer, but it didn't have the flow to back it up, i.e. even after an attempt or two to make the nib wetter, I gave up on the pen.

 

This year, I have been using a PenBBS 355 with a Jinhao M/B (0.7mm) nib. This pen writes smooth as well, and I have been able to make the nib much wetter, but twice I have pushed the nib too far, spread the tines, and now sometimes when I put down too much pressure the tines will separate and no ink will flow. Luckily, I have two replacement Jinhao nibs, but for now I'll stick with the wet nib I have. In the first half an hour of use, the pen writes exactly how I want it to, and it exudes ink as freely as what might be considered too wet for the japanese market. However, the feed cannot keep up, and soon afterwards, I have to put down pressure to get the same amount of ink on the paper. This is an endless feedback loop of wetting the nib, spreading the tines, and then fixing the nib to make sure the nibs don't spread too much.

 

Any tips, tricks, and suggestions for a better nib and pen would be greatly appreciated. 

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Many possible choices, but a number of clarifying questions.  You mentioned a range of nib sizes but I'm not sure what nib size you prefer?  EF, F, M, B?  Or is smoothness the absolute priority?  If so, then the broader nibs will naturally be smoother with greater ink flow than the narrower nibs.  Ink also makes a difference with a more lubricated ink offering a smoother experience than the dryer inks, the F/EF nibs being more sensitive to this.

 

If you are having fun with a particular nib and wish for it to be a bit smoother, then a bit of polishing with micro-mesh is hugely cost-effective when compared to purchasing nib after nib, hoping for the smooth experience that you're looking for out of the box.

 

Finally, not sure of your budget.

 

A number of suggestions:

Pelikan M200 F or M

Pilot Custom 74/823 or Vanishing Point M.

TWSBI Eco/580 M

Sailor 1911L or ProGear M

Diplomat Aero M

Faber Castell - various offerings M nib

 

There are actually many smooth writing experiences to be had.  Although the nib is important, you can further enhance smoothness by paying attention to the ink choice for the pen of choice, as well as the paper.  I think the Oxford Paper is a good base for a smooth writing experience.

 

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Karmachanic

The pen you seek should give you the line you want without any downward pressure.  Unless you have a pen with a genuine flex nib, downward pressure should be avoided.  A Pelikan M200, with which you have familiarity, can give you the wetness you want, particularly if you use wet inks.

 

Always use a light hand with a fountain pen. Forget about trying to spread tines whilst writing. There are numerous videos online on how to make a nib wetter. Just as one can make a nib wetter, one can also make a nib smoother.

 

If you want a smooth Japanese pen, stay away from Sailor. Pilot would be your best bet.

"Simplicate and add Lightness."

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MuddyWaters

You sound like you like to write feverishly! I would recommend a piston-filler or eye-dropper.

 

The Kaweco Sport can be turned into an eyedropper. You could replace the nib with a medium or broad.

 

The Pelikan m200 in M or B sounds like a readymade option for you.

 

I would add the Moonman M2, or the cheaper HYL copy. It's a reliable eyedropper that you could easily swap #5 nibs in. I used to use a M Kaweco nib (Kaweco nibs are not #5 nibs but they somehow still fit) in mine that I had spread open a little and it was a gusher.. a bit too much so. Now I use a Faber Castell M nib in mine.

 

Like someone else said, a Twsbi pen would be quite good for you too in medium or broad. They seem to write quite wet and have good ink capacity. Good pens for uni.

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mizgeorge

Hello and welcome :)

 

I'd agree on the Pelikan m200 series, but if you take a wander around the repair section, you will find that you may well be able to fix your mother's pen yourself - they're remarkably easy to work on.

 

 

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sansenri

Some good advice already.

I know what you mean though, I love very wet and very smooth pens (not only, but often) for very fast notes.

Very wet and very smooth with an F nib sets you money (your grandfather's 149...), or I agree you can go close with an M200 or with an eyedropper pen with an F nib (greater flow with piston fillers and eyedroppers).

If you can be happy with a wider nib, try a good B nib, a Bock or a Jowo in pen with converter,  often does the trick.

Playing with inks also can help, I'm using Leonardo blue recently and it's very wet.

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I agree with all the above.

 

Wettest modern pen i own is a Pelikan m1005 F. It writes like an M.

My vintage Pelikan 400 1951-1953 KM is also very wet.

 

You should go towards Broad nibs.

Pilot 823 broad is very wet and smooth.

 

Sailor and also pilot inks should make your pen glide across the page.

Tomoe river old formula paper  is the first choice.

 

 

 

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A Smug Dill
14 hours ago, Brother Tea said:

Does anyone have an idea how to make a feed bleed more?

 

Without replacing the feed or sourcing new ink? Physically widen the ink channel (e.g. with a craft knife).

 

Or you could replace a plastic feed with a compatible ebonite feed.

 

Or you could switch to a different, wetter ink.

 

Or you could add a substance such as Kodak Photo-Flo or even Dawn detergent to the ink you're using.

 

14 hours ago, Brother Tea said:

This year, I have been using a PenBBS 355 with a Jinhao M/B (0.7mm) nib. ...‹snip›... exudes ink as freely as what might be considered too wet for the japanese market.

 

I don't think either of those Chinese brands are targeted at users in the Japanese market.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Christopher Godfrey

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the combination of Pilot and a <replacement feed> from The Flexible Nib Factory!  The OP (Welcome here, Brother Tea!) said he wants very wet results, so I think you could do much worse than buying a Pilot Custom of some sort and then unscrewing the nib and replacing the feed with a (cheap!) triple-groove feed in ebonite from Joey Grasty at the above-mentioned TFNF (here in The USA).  These feeds take about a minute and a half to fit and are inexpensive and produce wonderful results.

 

In my Custom 723 I have the double-groove feed and it gives plentiful results; but, since you mention wanting very <wet> supply, perhaps the triple- is more up-your-street...

 

I have not tried this triple-groove one and I advise caution, because I remember someone writing that he used it only for drawing, needing loads of ink on the paper.  The double-grooved feed works beautifully for me with a Falcon nib.

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WalterC
Quote

 I also enjoy the writing experience of my mother's Pelikan M200 (1988-1997) with a B nib, however the piston mechanism doesn't work anymore and because it's the Old Style I don't know where to bring it to have it fixed. 

If you like your mother's Pelikan M200 B nib, I believe the nib unit unscrews and fits new M200s. Perhaps somebody more familiar with this can comment.

There are good repair people in Europe that can repair your mother's pen if it is repairable. You could also contact Pelikan about repairing it.

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airstairesc

Vintage Parker 51 Aerometric filler with a F or M nib would be great for note-taking. Very smooth nibs, good ink capacity, will keep up with fast writing.

 

Modern Pelikan is also a good recommendation but mine didn't write straight out of the box.

 

Faber-Castell stainless steel nibs are perhaps the smoothest out there. Ink capacity might be too small for taking notes, however.

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A Smug Dill
7 hours ago, Christopher Godfrey said:

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the combination of Pilot and a <replacement feed> from The Flexible Nib Factory!

 

For the item price of an FNF feed and shipping to continental Europe, the O.P. could buy an entire FPR Himalaya pen from Fountain Pen Revolution, and ask Kevin to swap in a wetter feed designed to support FPR Flex and Ultra-flex nibs even when the nib on the pen on order is not fitted with a Flex nib, and use the pen as an eyedropper-filler in achieve maximum ink capacity, if the O.P. is prepared to spend money at all and not just looking to (irreversibly?) modify what he already has to make it write wetter.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct for valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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ibrahim

You will love Pelikan Go. Snap cap and smooth, and cheap too! I have one and I love how smooth it is and it has got. 
 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=pelikan+go&_sacat=0

"I am human, and I think nothing human is alien to me." Terence

 

I share the humanity of people, I’m like the rest of everybody and certainly I’m not better or higher than anybody in anything, regardless of what they believe in or don’t believe in. What they experience is certainly not alien to me. I’m part of all people and they are part of me, interbeing, that is.

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What a coincidence! I just bought a second one today as I liked my first one so much!

3 hours ago, ibrahim said:

You will love Pelikan Go. Snap cap and smooth, and cheap too! I have one and I love how smooth it is and it has got. 
 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=pelikan+go&_sacat=0

 

"It's funny; in this era of email and voice mail and all those things that I did not even grow up with, a plain old paper letter takes on amazing intimacy."  Elizabeth Kostova

 

 

 

 

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On 3/7/2021 at 9:00 AM, Christopher Godfrey said:

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the combination of Pilot and a <replacement feed> from The Flexible Nib Factory!  The OP (Welcome here, Brother Tea!) said he wants very wet results, so I think you could do much worse than buying a Pilot Custom of some sort and then unscrewing the nib and replacing the feed with a (cheap!) triple-groove feed in ebonite from Joey Grasty at the above-mentioned TFNF (here in The USA).  These feeds take about a minute and a half to fit and are inexpensive and produce wonderful results.

 

In my Custom 723 I have the double-groove feed and it gives plentiful results; but, since you mention wanting very <wet> supply, perhaps the triple- is more up-your-street...

 

I have not tried this triple-groove one and I advise caution, because I remember someone writing that he used it only for drawing, needing loads of ink on the paper.  The double-grooved feed works beautifully for me with a Falcon nib.

I also use those feeds in my pilots and have loved the results - very nice wet flow! Yea, I just use the two channel as well

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Brother Tea
On 3/6/2021 at 4:56 PM, MuddyWaters said:

You sound like you like to write feverishly! I would recommend a piston-filler or eye-dropper.

 

The Kaweco Sport can be turned into an eyedropper. You could replace the nib with a medium or broad.

 

The Pelikan m200 in M or B sounds like a readymade option for you.

 

I would add the Moonman M2, or the cheaper HYL copy. It's a reliable eyedropper that you could easily swap #5 nibs in. I used to use a M Kaweco nib (Kaweco nibs are not #5 nibs but they somehow still fit) in mine that I had spread open a little and it was a gusher.. a bit too much so. Now I use a Faber Castell M nib in mine.

 

Like someone else said, a Twsbi pen would be quite good for you too in medium or broad. They seem to write quite wet and have good ink capacity. Good pens for uni.

Right on, and thank you for your message. I use my two Kaweco Sports as eyedroppers, and they serve me well. I have been thinking about buying another Kaweco because I support the company and enjoy their products, maybe a Kaweco Student this time, and turning that into an eyedropper aswell. Both my Kawecos Sports have an EF nib, so this time around I would get a M or B nib. However, I hesitate because I find the nib small and stiff, and I know that Kawecos are usually dry out of the box. 

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Brother Tea
On 3/6/2021 at 7:45 PM, nibtip said:

I agree with all the above.

 

Wettest modern pen i own is a Pelikan m1005 F. It writes like an M.

My vintage Pelikan 400 1951-1953 KM is also very wet.

 

You should go towards Broad nibs.

Pilot 823 broad is very wet and smooth.

 

Sailor and also pilot inks should make your pen glide across the page.

Tomoe river old formula paper  is the first choice.

 

 

 

Thank you for your recommendations.

 

The Pelikan M1005 is one pen I dream of owning, however that pen is far off from my budget at the moment. 

 

Your recommendation of the Pilot 823 is also spot on because I have previously looked into that pen and I think I would get much enjoyment out of it. The PenBBS 355 I currently use has a similar ink filling system to the 823, where you can also close off the ink chamber from the nib/feed. I have found though after working on the feed (deepening the groove) on that pen that it takes a good 5 min to saturate the feed,  and I have to leave the ink chamber open as long as possible because the nib is starved and cannot catch up with me if I do not let it saturate. This was especially frustrating when I recently traveled and came home to my university lectures, and my pen, which I had kept the ink chamber closed off on, would not consistently put down a line of ink for 2 hours, despite my having opened the ink chamber and let the feed saturate while I was taking down notes.  

 

I have heard that Sailor pens are not as smooth writers as Pilots, does the same go for the ink? 

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Brother Tea
On 3/7/2021 at 2:24 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

Without replacing the feed or sourcing new ink? Physically widen the ink channel (e.g. with a craft knife).

 

Or you could replace a plastic feed with a compatible ebonite feed.

 

Or you could switch to a different, wetter ink.

 

Or you could add a substance such as Kodak Photo-Flo or even Dawn detergent to the ink you're using.

 

 

I don't think either of those Chinese brands are targeted at users in the Japanese market.

Last week I physically widened the groove in the feed of my PenBBS 355, and I have gotten amazing results. The pen is now much wetter and puts down a consistently wide line in perfect conditions. The only issue is that the feed now needs longer to saturate. When the pen is on my desk and not in use, I now leave the ink chamber open, instead of closing it regularly after every use, like I would do if I were traveling with the pen. 

 

I am considering other inks that are wetter, but I like the color and performance of Waterman Serenity Blue. I would much rather stick with that ink and use a lubricating agent (like dish soap or glycerine) to wetten the ink, rather than getting a new ink color I might not like and which isn't as visible in low light conditions, yet still blue and not black, as the deep color of Waterman Serenity Blue. 

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Brother Tea
On 3/7/2021 at 8:17 PM, WalterC said:

If you like your mother's Pelikan M200 B nib, I believe the nib unit unscrews and fits new M200s. Perhaps somebody more familiar with this can comment.

There are good repair people in Europe that can repair your mother's pen if it is repairable. You could also contact Pelikan about repairing it.

Great idea. This is something I have considered aswell, i.e. buying myself a Pelikan M200 with a M or F nib and interchangeably using my mothers B nib because it would be compatable and no one can use that pen anyways as of now.

About the repair, I will have to contact Pelikan eventually to see what they can do. I think it is only the piston that needs to be replaced because you cannot physically twist the piston nob more than one or one and a half rotations because the piston seems to be stuck and will not go down the barrel.

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Brother Tea
On 3/8/2021 at 1:21 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

For the item price of an FNF feed and shipping to continental Europe, the O.P. could buy an entire FPR Himalaya pen from Fountain Pen Revolution, and ask Kevin to swap in a wetter feed designed to support FPR Flex and Ultra-flex nibs even when the nib on the pen on order is not fitted with a Flex nib, and use the pen as an eyedropper-filler in achieve maximum ink capacity, if the O.P. is prepared to spend money at all and not just looking to (irreversibly?) modify what he already has to make it write wetter.

This is a great suggestion. I think i'll skip on the double/triple groove feed from the FPF and go the route of a FPR Himalaya and a flex feed. Eyedropping a pen is also something I am comfortable with. I have modified my pen, but I am still not smitten with it. 

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