The pain and agony of Lamy 2000 nibs - the (M) is too broad

[iap]

I've had a frustrating couple of weeks trying to find a Lamy 2K with a nib that I could live with. My reference points - I have multiple Safaris in F and M that I use with either Lamy ink or a number of Noodler's inks (Bad Heron Blue, Ottoman Rose, El Lawrence, Heart of Darkness Black and Eel Greune Cactus). I'm most happy with the M nibs in the Safaris and was hoping that a M in the 2K would be similar.

 

I ordered a 2K M from Amazon that duly arrived in the double box, but with no instructions or warranty card. I dip tested it using my inks and it wrote like a B but it was oh, so buttery smooth to write with. I decided pretty quickly that it was too broad for my liking so I ordered an F for comparison hoping it would be more like a Safari M.

 

The 2K F arrived, again with no instructions or warranty card, and there were a couple of things that I didn't care for - a cosmetic issue on the body with it appearing to have lighter lines in the makrolon and a very loose piston cap. I dip tested the 2K F and it wrote more like a Safari F and it wasn't nearly as smooth as the 2K M to write with. I am a fast writer and it felt a bit scratchy to write with. After a week of trying to like the F I decided that it was just not right for me either, so in the end I sent both pens back for a refund.

 

I still would like a 2K with a nib that writes like a Safari M and I am wondering if it is worth trying another order, although I would probably not order from Amazon again as the lack of instructions and a warranty card has me thinking a little. 

 

Is dip testing representative of how a pen writes with ink in the piston ?

 

Is it unrealistic to expect there to be variations in the size of flow of the nibs on the Lamy 2Ks ?

 

 

[silverlifter]

Personally, I would not extrapolate too much from experiences with pens purcahsed from Amazon: you have no way of telling how many people have tried the pen before you, and how they treated the nib.

 

If trying one at a brick & mortar store is not an option, I'd order an <F> from a reputable seller and see how it suits. Dip testing will result in a saturated feed, which means that it wil write a wetter, slightly thicker line initially.

 

Also bear in mind L2K nibs are notoriously stubbish, so if you rotate the pen at all it will complain. The larger the tipping surface, the less an issue this is, but at an <F>, it will be noticeable. People often refer to this as the "sweet spot".

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, iap said:

Is dip testing representative of how a pen writes with ink in the piston ?

 

It depends somewhat on how you dip-test, but generally speaking, no.

 

Ink flow — as you would get from normal usage drawing ink from the reservoir into the feed, which then supplies to the nib in moderation — is not something dip-test can be reasonably expect to inform the user, but it certainly can affect the writing outcomes including line widths using the nib in question.

 

1 hour ago, iap said:

I am a fast writer and it felt a bit scratchy to write with.

 

That is something that dip-testing can tell you about, if you use an ink that's not known for being uncommonly lubricating.

 

1 hour ago, iap said:

Is it unrealistic to expect there to be variations in the size of flow of the nibs on the Lamy 2Ks ?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

1 hour ago, iap said:

I still would like a 2K with a nib that writes like a Safari M

 

So buy a Lamy 2000 either from a retailer that offers the option of customising (and not just ‘tuning’) the nib before sending it out to the customer, or then send it to an independent nibmeister for regrinding, and get them to make the nib write “like a Safari M” even if it means eradicating the character of the Lamy 2000's gold nib(s) in the process, since that isn't what you want to buy or keep in the first place. Better still, send one of your Medium-nibbed Safari pens along with the Lamy 2000 to the nibmeister as the reference, since “Safari M” isn't a standard with published technical specifications. ”Make the Lamy 2000 write in all ways like this Safari I'm sending you,” is probably the clearest instruction you can give a nibmeister.

[iap]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:03 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 even if it means eradicating the character of the Lamy 2000's gold nib(s) in the process, since that isn't what you want to buy or keep in the first place.

 

Thank you both for your replies. I am within a reasonable distance of a Lamy store, so will look into visiting them and trying out their pens.

 

@Smug Dill - I had not thought of nib tuning or customisation and you raise a good point in the quoted text above. I generally don't like tweaking things to the detriment of their essential character. I'll try to check out other examples of the 2K, but will temper my expectations with the thought that this simply may not be a pen for me. 

 

[sansenri]

It's probably not very helpful to you, but I know what you mean.

I like broad nibs and my 2K has a B nib.

incredibly smooth and incredibly wide! BB, possibly more...

 

[SashK]

It is frustrating when the nib does not meet your expectations, we've all been there. 

 

Skip on the big online retailer and buy from a fountain pen specialty store, ask them to test the pen before they ship it (most offer this service gratis) and you should get what you want. Best is to go B&M, as you will have the opportunity to test out the exact pen you are serious about. Sure, it's dipped, but still.

 

I have an L2K in broad that I cannot live without. It writes more like a BB, which is fine by me. 

 

Hope you find the nib you are searching for. 

[lucraak]

Last week I again grabbed my L2K with a B nib and was again reminded how fantastic it writes but yeah ... it is really really wide... even wider than a regular gold B nib from Lamy (which is in its turn also broader than a steel B nib). 

[MYU]

L2K nibs are indeed wider than stated. I guess it's too late for LAMY to change that, given the precedent set. It would require some kind of marketing campaign to inform the consumer market. I do have to wonder how often their support department receives complaints or requests regarding nib size, though...

 

At least LAMY is pretty good about nib exchanges if your nib doesn't have detectable wear.

 

And of course, if you really love the pen itself, you can always have a nib meister retune the nib to your desired performance. But that does add cost, sometimes approaching 50% of the original pen cost.

[ibrahim]

So it turns out that it is common knowledge that Lamy 2000 nibs are wider than stated… ummm that explains why my m nib writes more like a broad. 

[A Smug Dill]

20 minutes ago, ibrahim said:

So it turns out that it is common knowledge that Lamy 2000 nibs are wider than stated…

 

Not necessarily so; although it is commonly expected by many, either through first-hand experience or having come across other users' reviews and comments, that Lamy 2000 nibs of a particular width grade are generally broader than other Lamy (model Z5*) nibs of the same width grade; and Lamy nibs aren't usually considered among the finer compared against other fountain pen brands' nibs (with or without including Japanese brands) for a particular width grade. However, ‘M‘ or ‘Medium’ is not a technical or objective standard agreed and adopted by multiple fountain pen manufacturers; and, in fact, Lamy does not have a published standard as to what ‘M‘ or ’Medium’ means for its nibs across (or irrespective of) types and models. (Neither does Pelikan, for that matter.) If Lamy 2000 M nibs are consistently broader than Lamy 2000 F nibs but finer than Lamy 2000 B nibs, then I don't think it's reasonable to conclude the M nibs are “wider than stated”, when it neither uses nor recognises anyone else's frame of reference in the interpretation of what is stated.

[ibrahim]

9 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

However, ‘M‘ or ‘Medium’ is not a technical or objective standard agreed and adopted by multiple fountain pen manufacturers; and, in fact, Lamy does not have a published standard as to what ‘M‘ or ’Medium’ means for its nibs across (or irrespective of) types and models.

You make an excellent point. Thank you so much. 
By the way, what is your favorite pen? Smooth, no feedback and a joy to write with? You are obviously well-informed and I can learn from you. 

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, ibrahim said:

You make an excellent point.

 

Thank you.

 

7 hours ago, ibrahim said:

By the way, what is your favorite pen?

 

• Not a Lamy 2000 with an M nib, when even the Lamy 2000 EF nib is not fine enough to be a ‘workhorse’ for everyday applications of putting pen to paper.
• Not a Lamy 2000 (even though the Makrolon-bodied pen is nice enough to look at, hold and use), blue Bauhaus limited edition or otherwise, when the grind on its EF nib is least agreeable to me among Lamy nibs of the same width grade.
• Not a Lamy, among German makes of either pens or nibs.
• Not German, even though I have more (misguided?) respect and confidence in German manufacture than other continental European production, which I rank in turn above that of UK, US and Australia in the ‘Western’ world.

My (modern) Pilot ‘Hannya Shingyo’,

Spoiler

 

even though its Fine nib, while excellent, is not the best nib Pilot has to offer (and, just to be clear, the Custom models' FA nibs are definitely not that). I judge a fountain pen as a complete writing instrument, work of art and exemplar of craftsmanship, not by its nib alone.

 

7 hours ago, ibrahim said:

Smooth, no feedback and

 

Its nib is relatively smooth among Japanese nibs, yes. However, the complete absence of friction to overcome when writing is not an inherent virtue in my view of nibs, and a nib that offers no kinaesthetic feedback would put it in disfavour in my book.

 

 

7 hours ago, ibrahim said:

a joy to write with?

 

That it certainly is; writing with it is akin to meditation in motion.

[ibrahim]

5 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Its nib is relatively smooth among Japanese nibs, yes. However, the complete absence of friction to overcome when writing is not an inherent virtue in my view of nibs, and a nib that offers no kinaesthetic feedback would put it in disfavour in my book.

 

it is with great amazement and appreciation that I read and re read everything you wrote and it enlightened me. Thank you so much. 

[MHBru]

weighing in altho it looks like this discussion has already covered the key points.  I purchased my 2000 from a reputable US based on line retailer.  After using a Visconti broad i felt that a Lamy 2000 broad was the right move.  The 2000 nib was ridiculously broad and wrote more like a Sharpie than a fountain pen.  For me a medium would have been plenty.  That being said.... the issue is resolved and the pen is a beauty and writes like a dream

 

[MYU]

I agree that with LAMY one must get familiar with their "nomenclature" on nib sizes. They do run large, relative to other brands, especially Japanese ones.

 

One of my favorite "economical" fountain pens is the LAMY Vista (essentially a demonstrator Safari). I use an <F> nib and I'm very happy with it. I find it runs somewhere between a Japanese <F> and <M> nib. Very reliable. Easy to clean. And the triangle grip is very ergonomic. What's great about the SAFARI nibs is the ease of interchanging. In fact, the LAMY Studio nibs are also compatible.

 

For longevity between refills, in all my experience, the best by far is a rOtring 700. I've left this pen sit for nearly 2 months, come back to it and with a tiny bit of priming, it starts writing fine again. Good flow too. I was lucky to obtain one with a fine stub nib and it's a dream to write with. The only other fine stub I've had that writes better is on my PILOT Vanishing Point, which was Binderized way back before PILOT started offering stub nibs. I just wish the nib had a longer endurance before drying out.

[TgeekB]

I have a 2000 with EF nib. It certainly writes wider than most EF's do but it's perfect for me. Great ink flow and a joy to use. By far my favorite pen. 

[iap]

To close this out I should mention that I bought another L2K (F) and it is writing far better than the previous example. Yay !

[lionelc]

win

[carlos.q]

11 hours ago, iap said:

To close this out I should mention that I bought another L2K (F) and it is writing far better than the previous example. Yay !

We all love happy endings. 👍

[Dione]

If I got the chance I would happily swap my almost new Lamy 2000 F nib for any other broader nib. The pen is perfect and hardly ever used, so just a new nib would be nice but it is far too expensive to buy another.